The Burkha Controversy - Now Sikhism

Poll

Should the Kirpan be banned?

R.B.G

Recently there has been a controversy over women wearing Burkhas and many have proposed to ban it. A proposal I fully support. Yet nothing is ever said about a much more dangerous religious item.

The Kirpaan is a giant daggar which poses a far greater security threat than the flippin Burkha. According to a mandatory religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh (the tenth Guru of Sikhism) at the Baisakhi Amrit Sanchar (a holy religious ceremony that formally baptizes a Sikh) in CE 1699, all baptised Sikhs (Khalsa) must wear a kirpan at all times. The kirpan is both a "defensive" weapon and a symbol.

Pictured above is a Kirpan (dagger)

The U.K legality on this issue:

They are actually allowed to carry these weapons in the UK
Source

They are even allowed to carry them into Schools
Source

Should they be banned?
Discuss....

[EDIT] A few people are claiming they have never heard of a kirpan attack as if it was some kind of defence for this absurd law so I have posted a few news stories below which shows it being used in attacks.

In this incident it left a 12 centimetre wound for those questioning how much damage it can actually do.
Source

The 23-year-old was found guilty of using a Kirpan to inflict more than 100 injuries to his victim's face, head, torso and vital organs
Source

A guy was stabbed with a kirpan in attempted murder, Smethwick. Witnesses reported seeing ceremonial swords being drawn and men carrying sticks.
Source

A 16-year-old boy was wounded at a religious festival in Walsall by a Sikh wielding a ceremonial sword. Faisal's father Khalid Mehmood said:
"Why do you let people carry swords and spears in a family outing like this?'"
Source

I can't believe the hypocricy of this. On TSR there are many supporters for banning the Burkha regardless of religious observance yet not many are applying the same standards to the Kirpan

(edited 13 years ago)

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1

Warrior078

Original post by R.B.G

Recently there has been a controversy over women wearing Burkhas and many have proposed to ban it. A proposal I fully support. Yet nothing is ever said about a much more dangerous religious item.

The Kirpaan is a giant daggar which poses a far greater security threat than the flippin Burkha. According to a mandatory religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh (the tenth Guru of Sikhism) at the Baisakhi Amrit Sanchar (a holy religious ceremony that formally baptizes a Sikh) in CE 1699, all baptised Sikhs (Khalsa) must wear a kirpan at all times, and not under any circumstances are they allowed to remove the Kirpan. The kirpan is both a "defensive" weapon and a symbol.

The U.K legality on this issue:

They are actually allowed to carry these weapons in the UK
Source

They are even allowed to carry them into Schools FFS
Source

Should they be banned?
Discuss....

They aren't used as weapons, only for defence purposes. Schools? My old school wouldn't allow Sikhs to bring in a big kirpan, only a small one that wouldn't cause much harm. So stop bitching.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 2

Paint-a-Picture

Omg didnt know this. I feel really stupid at the moment. But I dont understand how this can be accceptable. I feel really concerned at the moment and logically going through a list of guys who might have one in my head and have made a mental decision to get at least a metre away.

Reply 3

R.B.G

Original post by Warrior078

They aren't used as weapons, only for defence purposes. Schools? My old school wouldn't allow Sikhs to bring in a big kirpan, only a small one that wouldn't cause much harm. So stop bitching.

If it used in defence it is still being used as a weapon. Also not all Sikhs are nice guys; obviously some will use it to attack. If they are caught by officers with the knife to and from the crime they can just say "oh I'm just observing my religion" and go along there merry way.

Besides why should Sikhs have this special ability just because some superstitious mumbo jumbo commands them to. No-one else is allowed to carry a knife for 'self defence' :wink2:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 4

adam_zed

lets ban the crucifix as well because it can be used to poke people and make them cry.....

Reply 5

Fusilero

Do they use a proper sharp, edged Kirpaan or is it a blunted, dull Kirpaan? Although I suspect the latter may not actually fill the requirement.

Reply 6

R.B.G

Original post by Paint-a-Picture

Many Sikhs conceal the Kirpans under their clothes too :s-smilie:

Nope nothing shady about that.

Reply 7

R.B.G

Original post by Fusilero

Do they use a proper sharp, edged Kirpaan or is it a blunted, dull Kirpaan? Although I suspect the latter may not actually fill the requirement.

It's a proper sharp edged kirpaan.

Reply 8

Paint-a-Picture

Original post by Warrior078

They aren't used as weapons, only for defence purposes. Schools? My old school wouldn't allow Sikhs to bring in a big kirpan, only a small one that wouldn't cause much harm. So stop bitching you little faggot.

Well in that case I think everyone should carry a small knife around, you know not anything personal just 'protection' purposes.

Reply 9

Fusilero

Original post by adam_zed

lets ban the crucifix as well because it can be used to poke people and make them cry.....

A sharp Kirpaan could be used to easily disembowel someone, a little crucifix won't achieve much unless they stick it in an eye. It's a big difference.

Reply 10

Paint-a-Picture

Original post by R.B.G

Many Sikhs conceal the Kirpans under their clothes too :s-smilie:

Nope nothing shady about that.

I hope they dont accidently poke themselves with it.

Reply 11

n33t

So how many of you have actually heard about someone 'attacking' someone with the kirpan? How many cases do you see when someone has been stabbed/killed with the kirpan?

The only people that really carry it are baptised sikhs/ v religious sikhs; There aren't many around to be honest. And the people that do, aren't little 17 year old chavs who are going to stab anyone who comes in their way. It's literally JUST a symbol of sikhism - 5 K's.

Also people that do carry a Kirpan, have to be registered anyways with the local police. So no, if someone is seen with a knife and uses the 'Kirpan' for an excuse, the poice can actually find out if their registered to have one or not.

Reply 12

Aj12

Original post by R.B.G

The U.K legality on this issue:

They are actually allowed to carry these weapons in the UK
Source

They are even allowed to carry them into Schools FFS
Source

Should they be banned?
Discuss....

Personally I have not once heard of a Sikh using it to stab someone.

However I have heard of men wearing Burkas to get out the country.

Reply 13

mintmocha

Original post by Paint-a-Picture

I hope they dont accidently poke themselves with it.

It's bigger than the kid.
(I must admit that it looks really cool.-who would mess with that kid?)

Reply 14

Ripper

I've never really understood this as I have heard many people argue that they are not feasible as an offensive weapon and others argue that they could very easily be used to kill/seriously injure. I have never heard of a single incident of one of these things being misused however.

Reply 15

Make it so.

Guy: Hey Raghead?
Sikh: You talking to me?
Guy: Yeah. What you gonna do about it?
Sikh: You don't like my turban?
Guy: No.
Sikh: Well, I got something else you ain't gonna like.

This is why no one with a brain messes with the Sikhs.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 16

Sushidelight

How many British Sikhs have killed anyone using them?

So shutup. :colonhash:

Reply 17

Economister

Original post by make it so.

guy: Hey raghead?
Sikh: You talking to me?
Guy: Yeah. What you gonna do about it?
Sikh: You don't like my turban?
Guy: No.
Sikh: Well, i got something else you ain't gonna like.

This is why no one with a brain messes with the sikhs.

lmaooooo

Reply 18

R.B.G

Original post by Aj12

Personally I have not once heard of a Sikh using it to stab someone.

Do we really have to waith untill it happens? I remember hearing of a couple Sikhs charged with fighting with swords in my area a few years back. Not sure if it was a kirpan but it's a perfectly reasonable fear to suspect they could be used in an attack. As someone who favours a secular democracy don't you think that knives should not be permitted based solely on religous grounds?

Oh here is a news article on it being used to attack someone: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/04/07/toronto-kirpan-debate-brampton.html

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 19

2ndClass