The Burkha Controversy - Now Sikhism

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I was under the impression that Sikhs are permitted to carry a very small kirpan, or a blunt kirpan purely for symbolic purposes? Many of the Sikhs I know don't carry the big full sized sharp one. One of them just has a little dagger shaped thing on a bracelet.

Reply 41

Warrior078

Original post by R.B.G

Okay here is another one not that I should be giving your ridiculous arguement any credibility. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-11-24/delhi/28069444_1_ranbir-granthi-sword-attack

I don't give a fu.ck about what's going on in India and Canada, give me STORIES of kirpan attacks in the UK.

Reply 42

R.B.G

Original post by tazarooni89

It can be those small ones or full sized daggars. However some Sikhs don't consider it to meet the criteria if it is not sharp enough to be used in defence as this is it's main purpose. Just like the one which was used in this news article
It left a 12 centimetre wound aswell; easily enough to kill.

Reply 43

The_Internet

Or if they hide it around around their nether regions. I'm not attacking the Sikh faith here(or at least I think I'm not), but surely this is more of an issue than the Burkha? Or, surely a terrorist could pretend to be a Sikh(or they may even be a Sikh terrorist), and use it as a weapon? What's a Sikh's view on this? As we all know, we can't really trust the media

Reply 44

Phenylethylamine_

Original post by Singh993

This thread is *******s

I'm a Sikh, and although I don't carry a kirpan we have every right to do so
nearly every baptised sikh carries a small, blunt kirpan....it's about as dangerous as my left foot

furthermore , in the UK, the kirpan has never been used to attack/kill another individual.....

Wearing the kirpan for baptised sikhs is a major part of sikhism - we were a religion born from warriors yet, funnily enough, are incredibly tolerant and have integrated very well into British society

over 100k turbaned sikh soldiers died for this country in WWII; we're earnt the right to live here and practise our faith peacefully
And as some have mentioned, part of sikhism teaches good discipline.

stop being such a buffoon - instead, focus on taking knives away from the idiots on the streets who are going to use them to cause harm

Thank you! I was going to say the same thing.
---

In order to even carry a kirpan, you have to undergo a very long ceremony that outlines the importance of the 5Ks. The people who usually become 'baptised' Sikhs or become a part of Khalsa i.e. the ''pure ones'', become and are very tolerant people and DO NOT resort in any situation to use their kirpan as a weapon or resorting to violence. In Sikhism, violence is taken very seriously, in fact one of the five barriers that block a Sikh from attaining salvation is anger itself and anger is contributing factor to violence. So, no a kirpan is not used as a weapon. It is a SYMBOLIC component of the 5ks which is part of the Sikh identity.

Clearly you've not researched this enough and the statements you're making throughtout this thread are simply misconceptions. It hasn't even ever been recorded in this country of a person being murdered by a kirpan. Like I said before, any person who does wear is the kirpan is usually a very tolerant person and people usually think long hard as to whether they are ready to commit themselves to becoming a 'baptised' Sikh. P.S. Only small Kirpan's are allowed that are not sharp whatsoever, they are only a SYMBOL of self defence and the militarisation of the religion by sixth Guru.

Reply 45

R.B.G

Original post by Warrior078

I don't give a fu.ck about what's going on in India and Canada, give me STORIES of kirpan attacks in the UK.

Should Muslims be allowed to wear suicide vest because none have been used in the UK? It's not the point is it. It warrants reasonable fear of an attack and therefore should not be permitted simply on the basis of religion.

Reply 46

QStah

Yeah i used to have a Sikh teacher that used to wear it under his suit ..

Reply 47

thisisnew

You have presented us with one actual attack. The other was an allegation and the Indian one was about a mentally ill man attacking people with a sword.

In the case of the actual kirpan attack it seems like there was a feud. In the absence of the kirpan I'm fairly sure the attacker would have used any other knife he could get his hands on :l

Reply 48

R.B.G

Original post by thisisnew

So? It's alot harder to do find a knife from somewhere than flip out the one you have in your pocket during heated dispute.

Reply 49

adam_zed

Original post by Fusilero

A sharp Kirpaan could be used to easily disembowel someone, a little crucifix won't achieve much unless they stick it in an eye. It's a big difference.

Init. Maybe you could put a figure on Kirpan related crime just to elaborate how much of a menace to society it is?

Reply 50

Warrior078

Original post by R.B.G

Suicide bombers have been in the UK you dumb ass and a bomb strapped vest is not a religious item is it. You clearly don't know much about other religions, how about we ban a Christian crucifix? That could surely do some harm couldn't it? Could easily graze someone on the arm. Seriously, stop being such a pussy, you won't and no one else in this country, will be stabbed, by a kirpan.

Reply 51

Psyk

The thing that bothers me about this (and maybe I'm actually wrong here) is that it discriminates against people because of their religious beliefs. All laws should apply to everyone equally, regardless of religion. If Sikhs are allowed to carry these then everyone else should be allowed too.

But maybe there could be a compromise. We could have a vetting process so that potentially anyone can be allowed to carry a knife if they can get approval that they aren't planning on using it to attack people (self defence wouldn't be a valid reason because then everyone could get one). So there would be a background check and an interview where they have the chance to justify their reasons for wanting to carry a knife. In practice very few people would qualify, but the point is it means it's not open to just Sikhs.

Reply 52

R.B.G

Original post by Warrior078

Suicide bomb attacks yes but not the bomb strapped vest. I am fully aware of there being no religious code for Muslims wearing it and I don't care what your imaginary friend wants everyone must follow the law. A Christian crucifix is not a lethal weapon. Really i know violent Sikhs and let me quote someone from earlier.

Original post by Uzzy?

As long as they're not used outside the home I think its fine.

Whilst we're on this topic, my bf's uncle was chased by an old sikh man threatning to chop his head off with that thing :lolwut:

If people are allowed to carry knives it will eventually lead to someone using it. Are we supposed to wait untill someone is killed before we ban it. Laws are not made once someone has committed a crime using said weapon it is banned based on things which are a danger to the society.

Reply 53

Warrior078

Original post by R.B.G

Allow this discussion, unlike you, I have a life and don't have to discuss idiotic sh.it on a website to get some human contact.

Reply 54

TheLeader

Original post by adam_zed

Init. Maybe you could put a figure on Kirpan related crime just to elaborate how much of a menace to society it is?

Perhaps we should do that with all weapons. What's the figure on Ninja star related crime or Nunchucks?

Reply 55

username461215

Original post by R.B.G

Okay here is another one not that I should be giving your ridiculous arguement any credibility. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-11-24/delhi/28069444_1_ranbir-granthi-sword-attack

please just accept it : you're a flawed individual with no sense when it comes to arguing

Reply 56

thisisnew

Original post by R.B.G

So? It's alot harder to do find a knife from somewhere than flip out the one you have in your pocket during heated dispute.

It wasn't heat of the moment. It was a premeditated attack by a group of people disgruntled at the fact an excommunicated preacher was scheduled to lead prayers. I'm sure the nutters willing to stab him over that would have used a knife from their kitchen/toolbox etc if they didn't have Kirpans.

If anything they should outlaw Kirpans of a certain size and ones which haven't been blunted but not the item in its entirety.

Reply 57

MishMash1

People here don't realise, the point is even if you don't think it's likely that it could be used as a weapon, the fact still remains that the burka is no where near as dangerous as the kirpan, yet its seen as if anyone with a burka is an extremist and terrorist!

Reply 58

Iron Mike

I have always supported religious freedom and tolerance but I oppose this for 3 reasons:
1) The kipaan is a weapon and can critically injure people.
2) The amount of deaths it has caused is irrelevant. There are a number of weapons that have been rarely used and this in no way should make it more legitmate in terms of legality.
3) It is a special rule which only Sikhs are privalleged with and I don't believe this is fair.