The Burkha Controversy - Now Sikhism

I'm not for banning it as such, I'm for laws that apply equally to everyone. So either it's banned for Sikhs or it's opened up to allow other people to carry similar knives too. Perhaps with some restrictions.

It's a proper sharp edged kirpaan.

Yes it has. Check the OP for examples. Also you seem to be claiming the kirpan is no longer neccessary - which I agree with, thus it should be outlawed.

Yea, I don't like Islam. There are many decent Muslims but in my opinion that's despite their religion.

Lots of people don't like the religion of Islam, particularly because of its use as the ideological foundation of some of the most brutal, sexist, reactionary and backward regimes on the planet.

I think what annoys me most about Islam is how damn certain they are about everything. I've debated with lots of Muslims, and a vast number seem to be quite incapable of understanding that two people can come to different conclusion based on the same information.

So yes, it's a particularly irritating religion. If you want to call me a bigot, I suggest you look that word up, and compare it to the teachings of Islam.

You guys are stupid. Sikhs who have taken amrit wear a kirpan, so very few. A small kirpan is worn under the clothes, and most of them are welded shut and only seen as symbols. The original point of them was to be able to protect those who needed protection and were defenseless; back in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's times, Sikhs were being brutally killed off by the Mughals who wanted them to convert. They had to create their own way of defending themselves and others (a martial art called gatka), which is why the kirpan has so much significance to it. Now, we aren't in battle, so it's largely seen as a symbol.

Also, it's not a sharp "dagger". My brother is amritdhari, his kirpan is so blunt it couldn't even give me a small cut.

Bleughhh. Whoever posted this link as an example that the kirpan should be banned because it was used as a weapon to murder this guy:

http://www.windsorexpress.co.uk/news/article-16898-alleyway-murderer-jailed-for-22-years/?formID=&submissionID=

Well, like it says in the article, it was a 'drug-fuelled' attack, exactly, he would have murdered the other guy regardless of using a Kirpan or not, he could have utilised another weapon as easily if the Kirpan wasn't there. It is a SYMBOLIC sword, a small blunt sword. The Sikhs who carry it are ''baptised'' Sikhs, who are far more disciplined and tolerant. I don't know how you can use that article as a representation for the Kirpan to be banned, firstly, intoxication like taking drugs are NOT allowed in Sikhism, so using a Kirpan to murder someone is 100 times worse, because that is not its intended purpose. So, therefore, I don't see how you can use that article because the taking drugs counteracts Sikhism in the first place thus murdering someone with a Kirpan is irrelevant.

In my experience the Brits that have no knowledge of Sikhism, their 'kirpan' and their deep connection and loyalty to Britain, tend to be either Hindus, Muslims or chavs. Generally, if you talk to white British students from the better Universities you'll find a very healthy knowledge and respect for sikhs. I have a feeling that might be because the families of those students at the better universities have some sort of connection with the officer class of the armed forces where respect for the Sikhs and their kirpan is partcularly high given what they achieved for Britain.

(and bear in mind that the Sikhs are the oldest, most established and most well integrated of all the asian communities in Britain)

So you see, usually, in my experience, and I'm sure that is the case here on this forum, it will be Hindus and Muslims who have none of the historical connection and attachment to to Britain that the Sikhs have........have none of the sacrifices for Britain that the Sikhs have.......and have arrived in Britain a couple of generations after the Sikhs....who now want Britain to forget its gratitude and friendship with the Sikhs. I'd like to think we value our historical ties not to fall for that though.

In my experience the Brits that have no knowledge of Sikhism, their 'kirpan' and their deep connection and loyalty to Britain, tend to be either Hindus, Muslims or chavs. Generally, if you talk to white British students from the better Universities you'll find a very healthy knowledge and respect for sikhs. I have a feeling that might be because the families of those students at the better universities have some sort of connection with the officer class of the armed forces where respect for the Sikhs and their kirpan is partcularly high given what they achieved for Britain. Indeed, Prince Charles tried damn hard a few years ago to restart a Sikh Regiment in the British Army. He had support from Conservatives and the officer class but.....the idea had to be dropped after complaints from Hindu and Muslim groups who claimed the sikhs were being given preferential treatment.
Anyway, this whole debate about the kirpan reminds me of the wonderfully passionate speech Sir Winston Churchill gave to the House of Commons regarding the right of sikhs in the UK to wear their religious symbols (and bear in mind that the Sikhs are the oldest, most established and most well integrated of all the asian communities in Britain)

Sir Winston Churchill : ".....It is a matter of regret that due to the obsession of the present times people are distorting the superior religious and social values, but those who wish to preserve them with respect, we should appreciate them as well as help them. Sikhs do need our help for such a cause and we should give it happily. Those who know the Sikh history, know England's relationship with the Sikhs and are aware of the achievements of the Sikhs, they should persistently support the idea of relaxation to Sikhs to ride a motorbike with their turbans on, because it is their religious privilege."

He further added : "...British people are highly indebted and obliged to Sikhs for a long time. I know that within this century we needed their help twice and they did help us very well. As a result of their timely help, we are today able to live with honour, dignity, and independence. In the war, they fought and died for us, wearing the turbans..........we should now respect their traditions and by granting this legitimate concession, win their applaud."

So you see, usually, in my experience, and I'm sure that is the case here on this forum, it will be Hindus and Muslims who have none of the historical connection and attachment to to Britain that the Sikhs have........have none of the sacrifices for Britain that the Sikhs have.......and have arrived in Britain a couple of generations after the Sikhs....who now want Britain to forget its gratitude and friendship with the Sikhs. I'd like to think we value our historical ties not to fall for that though.

Respect the Sikhs who fought in the war. Not every single sikh, particularly the ones in the OP's news stories.



You call carrying a sword everywhere and dressing like a pirate, well integrated?




Again unless these are the same individuals who fought in the war then it is all irrelevant. You do not get special treatement for sharing the same religion as the brave people who actually fought.

A pirate? If your are talking about our beards, the beard is a mark of a real man. It differentiates us from women. You've obviously got issues against sikhs. And on top of that, I saw from your profile that you are part of the anti racist society. Lol.
What a Clown.

Respect the Sikhs who fought in the war. Not every single sikh, particularly the ones in the OP's news stories.



You call carrying a sword everywhere and dressing like a pirate, well integrated?




Again unless these are the same individuals who fought in the war then it is all irrelevant. You do not get special treatement for sharing the same religion as the brave people who actually fought.

It was a joke, sikhism isn't a race and the sword point still stands.

I swear you've got issues against Sikhs. If i do a quick search you were debating something on another thread against them too.

live and let live.

A debate with a Sikh is not the same as disparaging sikhs or sikhism. I have only ever had 2 discussions with Sikhs on TSR. So stop with your ridiculous accusation about how I am prejudiced towards Sikhs.

Kirpan comes from the words Kirpa: meaning mercy and -an:to deliver/ distribute Thus it places the duty on the owner to protect those who are unable to protect themselves

a True Sikh would treat a kirpan as part of his body and would only unsheath the weapon as an ultimate last resort

The reason why people do not usually see sikhs carrying their kirpans is 1) They are unbaptised
2) They have a small kirpan which they wear under their clothes.

It is very rare to witness cases of the misuse of the kirpan as Sikhs revere weaponry to have the Godlike power to give and protect life and would not unsheath it unless in a life or death situation.

As extremist Sikhs do not have as much of a reputation for murder and suicide bombing as extremist muslims the sikh population are not tarnished with the "extremist<" brush and thus allowed the right they have earned and uphold to have their religious identity.