Is fair that top unis accept internation students over uk students?
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Original post by de_monies
Many agree with? All of 7 people here agree with you. Also, if you're not showing your grades, I'll assume you've done ****, and hence not LSE material
Actually i my grades qualify to apply to lse nad other unis
Original post by Iqbal007
Do you think its fair that in many top universities, such as LSE, Imperial, etc prefer to accept international students over Domestic students at a time where Domestic students are unable to compete at graduate level jobs when there international equivalent?
Do think its right for universities to say having international students is more beneficial to the Uk economy, when these internail students leave once they have passed, while Domestic students are struggling to get into degree courses which causes in the long-term falling qualified domestic workers?
How many of you agree that Domestic students should have preference over international students when these universities are UK based and are being funded by UK taxpayers for there children and not for international students?
I realise that international students do give substantial fees and provided about £5 billion to the Uk economy, however i feel it is in the short-term and that long-term prosperity requires UK students to recieve Top education into creating a more stable and more than qualified supply of workers?
What I feel makes this case even worse is the fact that there is a current shortage of university places for local students, shouldn't the government look to maxsimise local students into university rather than being political and allowing foreign students into Uk universities as not many Uk students opt to go abroad due to the high cost in some countries with top universities such the USA.
(Im not being racist or anything, just wanna what people think and my opinion is that UK students should come first as these are UK universities with funding from UK taxpayers money)
Do think its right for universities to say having international students is more beneficial to the Uk economy, when these internail students leave once they have passed, while Domestic students are struggling to get into degree courses which causes in the long-term falling qualified domestic workers?
How many of you agree that Domestic students should have preference over international students when these universities are UK based and are being funded by UK taxpayers for there children and not for international students?
I realise that international students do give substantial fees and provided about £5 billion to the Uk economy, however i feel it is in the short-term and that long-term prosperity requires UK students to recieve Top education into creating a more stable and more than qualified supply of workers?
What I feel makes this case even worse is the fact that there is a current shortage of university places for local students, shouldn't the government look to maxsimise local students into university rather than being political and allowing foreign students into Uk universities as not many Uk students opt to go abroad due to the high cost in some countries with top universities such the USA.
(Im not being racist or anything, just wanna what people think and my opinion is that UK students should come first as these are UK universities with funding from UK taxpayers money)
Its not our fault that we are smarter than you mate plus we pay higher than fees than you. The tuition fees to study at imperial for engineering are £20000 annually with high costs of accommodation in London...
Original post by anillatoo
Its not our fault that we are smarter than you mate plus we pay higher than fees than you. The tuition fees to study at imperial for engineering are £20000 annually with high costs of accommodation in London...
Your giving overseas such a bad reputation by being so arrogrant. So what if you pay higher fees, what you guys gonna do when domestic student fees go up next year and much stronger restrictions are places, mainly only allowing postgrads in? Plus you guys aren't smarter than us, we are much smarter as you can see many pioneering innovation in the world are founded by UK students, plus u guys come from much more worse background and countries which makes you work harder, i'm for that. But you guys have uni's as well as we do, plus not all UK students are well-off either many of them come from poverty eventho its Britain.
Original post by Iqbal007
Actually i my grades qualify to apply to lse nad other unis
Well hopefully you didn't write like that in your personal statement. Also, consider you have two candidates. The offer is CCC(hypothetically)
Person A has AAA, awesome PS, awesome GCSE's etc...
Person B has CCC, OK PS, average GCSE's
They'd rather pick person A, as they make the uni look good in more than one way. First, they can use them to push up the average points someone receives on unistats, and secondly they are more likely to receive a first(putting the uni in good light again)
Original post by de_monies
Well hopefully you didn't write like that in your personal statement. Also, consider you have two candidates. The offer is CCC(hypothetically)
Person A has AAA, awesome PS, awesome GCSE's etc...
Person B has CCC, OK PS, average GCSE's
They'd rather pick person A, as they make the uni look good in more than one way. First, they can use them to push up the average points someone receives on unistats, and secondly they are more likely to receive a first(putting the uni in good light again)
Person A has AAA, awesome PS, awesome GCSE's etc...
Person B has CCC, OK PS, average GCSE's
They'd rather pick person A, as they make the uni look good in more than one way. First, they can use them to push up the average points someone receives on unistats, and secondly they are more likely to receive a first(putting the uni in good light again)
Yeah i know this, however the uni has to follow government guidelines and give offers to everyone who meets there requirement even if it the bare minimum. As there are many people who get onto courses due to there PS
or even there academic background despite grades. I know a few who got in for AAB offers at unis but got BCCD. And there are others who performed worse off then other applicants but get offers simply as a result of them going to schools where barely any student get into into top 40 schools and avergae C's. Its all still possible.
Original post by Iqbal007
Yeah i know this, however the uni has to follow government guidelines and give offers to everyone who meets there requirement even if it the bare minimum. As there are many people who get onto courses due to there PS
or even there academic background despite grades. I know a few who got in for AAB offers at unis but got BCCD. And there are others who performed worse off then other applicants but get offers simply as a result of them going to schools where barely any student get into into top 40 schools and avergae C's. Its all still possible.
or even there academic background despite grades. I know a few who got in for AAB offers at unis but got BCCD. And there are others who performed worse off then other applicants but get offers simply as a result of them going to schools where barely any student get into into top 40 schools and avergae C's. Its all still possible.
There may be government guidelines but if the university is oversubscribed(which is very likely for LSE), then they can choose the brightest of pupils who do apply
Original post by Jackeeba
Iqbal is your name? Not a traditional English name one might say... If you don't mind me asking, at which point did your family move to Britain (presuming ofc that they did immigrate here)?
As of the issue, seems quite clear that you want everyone to agree that international students shouldn't get as much chance as they do. However, really can't see that being the case. Personally I don't think fair is even clearly defined here. Is it fair that perhaps better applicants from public schools are rejected so that Uni's get their quota of state school kids (state school myself)? How do you gauge what's fair?
See:
Is it fair that some people are born into richer families than others? Are then given a better education and seemingly more likely to achieve their potential.
As of the issue, seems quite clear that you want everyone to agree that international students shouldn't get as much chance as they do. However, really can't see that being the case. Personally I don't think fair is even clearly defined here. Is it fair that perhaps better applicants from public schools are rejected so that Uni's get their quota of state school kids (state school myself)? How do you gauge what's fair?
See:
Is it fair that some people are born into richer families than others? Are then given a better education and seemingly more likely to achieve their potential.
I was born in here therefore i'm British, do you tink it was fair for the British to go around the entire world and take over land that doesnt belong to them. And then take all there wealth, which is why Britain is so rich today?
And i accept what ur sayin, however i know quite a lot of fellow students from worse off backgrounds who are actually doing very well in comparison to some of my well off friends, simply because they have no motivation.
International students can have places as long as there are spaces for them, while I think that domestic students should get priorty to get world leading education.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
I think its unfair that when I buy a 2nd class ticket on a train, that I'm not allowed in 1st class but the people who have 1st class tickets are?
Whats the difference between them and me, we're all humans. We should all come together and live as one.
Whats the difference between them and me, we're all humans. We should all come together and live as one.
looool thats because they pay more to get extra stuff otherwise everyone will pay the same, so ur tickets gonna cost more :/
Original post by de_monies
There may be government guidelines but if the university is oversubscribed(which is very likely for LSE), then they can choose the brightest of pupils who do apply
Yeah i know, but currently in time i would assume that the top 20 are oversubscribed and many others in the top 40, and they should pick the brightest, but you also have to take into peoples academic as some have advantages as they went to state schools and well off. And the Government is trying to make income distribution more smooth over the classes. And if these uni's are subscribed so much then the government should realise its better for domestic students to get in, as better educated population = better job prospects = higher salaries = more revenue from taxes = more income for public spending
Original post by Iqbal007
looool thats because they pay more to get extra stuff otherwise everyone will pay the same, so ur tickets gonna cost more :/
no shet sherlock, thats why international students are not the same as home students
Original post by Iqbal007
How many of you agree that Domestic students should have preference over international students when these universities are UK based and are being funded by UK taxpayers for there children and not for international students?
How many of you agree that Domestic students should have preference over international students when these universities are UK based and are being funded by UK taxpayers for there children and not for international students?
How many of you agree that upper to middle class children should have a preference over over poor student when these universities are mostly being funded by rich peoples tax money for their children and not for the children of the poor?
No, really. University is a place for research and learning. The preference should be given to the students who are the best. The admission process should not be used as a way of keeping an advantage of good education within a single country or nationality. That's a colonial way of thinking. And really, if the top UK universities wishes to continue to be world class, they need to remain relevant. The best way to stop being just that, is to deny foreigners access to them. And let's not forget the facts that internationals pay for their own education, increases the international renown of the institutions they attend, provides valuable cultural exchange and international contacts for their co-students, leave behind money in the British economy, and when they are done studying, either becomes unofficial good will ambassadors for Britain in the country they work in, or remain in Britain constitutes brain gain.
Sure, I may be biased because I am an international who plan on studying in UK, but I remain convinced that international students is positive for every country. In Norway, the state lend money and pays tuition for both Norwegians who wants to study abroad, and foreigners who want to study in Norway. Because both is beneficial.
Original post by IQ Test
They don't accept students because of their nationality, but because of their achievements.
These universities are UK based universities who continously get UK taxpayer funding so they should go to mainly British students, because many British students get these achievements like this private school boy who A*'S AND A but didnt get a a place until an austrialian uni saw his problem and gave him a scholarship, the fact is the unis care more about the money which isnt fair at all.
Original post by Sebsan
How many of you agree that upper to middle class children should have a preference over over poor student when these universities are mostly being funded by rich peoples tax money for their children and not for the children of the poor?
No, really. University is a place for research and learning. The preference should be given to the students who are the best. The admission process should not be used as a way of keeping an advantage of good education within a single country or nationality. That's a colonial way of thinking. And really, if the top UK universities wishes to continue to be world class, they need to remain relevant. The best way to stop being just that, is to deny foreigners access to them. And let's not forget the facts that internationals pay for their own education, increases the international renown of the institutions they attend, provides valuable cultural exchange and international contacts for their co-students, leave behind money in the British economy, and when they are done studying, either becomes unofficial good will ambassadors for Britain in the country they work in, or remain in Britain constitutes brain gain.
Sure, I may be biased because I am an international who plan on studying in UK, but I remain convinced that international students is positive for every country. In Norway, the state lend money and pays tuition for both Norwegians who wants to study abroad, and foreigners who want to study in Norway. Because both is beneficial.
No, really. University is a place for research and learning. The preference should be given to the students who are the best. The admission process should not be used as a way of keeping an advantage of good education within a single country or nationality. That's a colonial way of thinking. And really, if the top UK universities wishes to continue to be world class, they need to remain relevant. The best way to stop being just that, is to deny foreigners access to them. And let's not forget the facts that internationals pay for their own education, increases the international renown of the institutions they attend, provides valuable cultural exchange and international contacts for their co-students, leave behind money in the British economy, and when they are done studying, either becomes unofficial good will ambassadors for Britain in the country they work in, or remain in Britain constitutes brain gain.
Sure, I may be biased because I am an international who plan on studying in UK, but I remain convinced that international students is positive for every country. In Norway, the state lend money and pays tuition for both Norwegians who wants to study abroad, and foreigners who want to study in Norway. Because both is beneficial.
You should also realise these taxes are fair due to the fact that middle to upper class children have a much bigger advantage over poorer students as they have the ability to gain access to extra resources and better education in comparison so from that point of view it is fair, plus this will allow a better income distribution in the long run as there poor gets richer.
If what your saying was to be the case then all the top UK universities would be with overseas students leaving Britain with a less well-educated labour market which is completely unfair. What im saying is not COLONIAL at all, the uk is still recovering from the recession, last year more than a 100,000 UK students were left without a university place and hav been forced to take other routes. I tink its not fair that these students hav to take a year off uni or go other thru routes which arent recognised in graduate jobs. I agree here should be cultural exchange between different groups of people, however the UK is a very diverse scoiety with people coming from many different backgrounds. On top of that, i dont think its fair unis like LSE have a 68% overseas population when there priorty shud b UK students especially as they get millions of pounds frm uk taxpayers to pay for this research and for them to become so presitigious and world renowned. In the long run it is leaving the UK economy short of highly educated graduates.
You may get brain gain thru these internationals, but y cant we get it from our own students, which is simply as a result of high competition. On top of tht, those that stay actually take money earned in the uk out to support family back home, which i dont see is beneficialy to the uk economy. I realise that overseas does provide £4 billion for the economy but this is a tiny percentage of UK GDP. Plus i dont see whats wrong with the uni's they hav in their country. Norway wouldnt like there students population at unis to be more overseas students, how would u feel if ur local uni places are being taken up by overseas students and u cant get a place and u hav to change ur entire propects on higher education.
Original post by Iqbal007
These universities are UK based universities who continously get UK taxpayer funding so they should go to mainly British students, because many British students get these achievements like this private school boy who A*'S AND A but didnt get a a place until an austrialian uni saw his problem and gave him a scholarship, the fact is the unis care more about the money which isnt fair at all.
But then it wouldn't be fair at all if we didn't let anyone from other countries study here. We have some very good universities and people from around the world (who have proved themselves to be academically capable) should be allowed to study here. There are far more UK students than international students anyway, so it's not as if we're missing out massively. Yeah sure, there'll be the occassional anomaly, but that's just how it goes I suppose, even if it is unfortunate for someone not to get an offer.
Original post by IQ Test
But then it wouldn't be fair at all if we didn't let anyone from other countries study here. We have some very good universities and people from around the world (who have proved themselves to be academically capable) should be allowed to study here. There are far more UK students than international students anyway, so it's not as if we're missing out massively. Yeah sure, there'll be the occassional anomaly, but that's just how it goes I suppose, even if it is unfortunate for someone not to get an offer.
I'm not saying they shouldnt be let in, sure they can however i dont think at the current level its sustainable for this economy nor is it gd for uk students as last year there were more 100,000 without places and this years going to be the most competitive ever. I think that reducing the internationals would help with this current situation. And these anomally may not seem a concern in general population, but looking which uni's have huge international propblem is where its concerning such UCL, IMPERIAL, LSE, etc which is unfair as i know many unis even lse as i recall challenged the government sayin they'll take more internationals if they dont get more research fundings. Thats completely unfair
Original post by Iqbal007
I'm not saying they shouldnt be let in, sure they can however i dont think at the current level its sustainable for this economy nor is it gd for uk students as last year there were more 100,000 without places and this years going to be the most competitive ever. I think that reducing the internationals would help with this current situation. And these anomally may not seem a concern in general population, but looking which uni's have huge international propblem is where its concerning such UCL, IMPERIAL, LSE, etc which is unfair as i know many unis even lse as i recall challenged the government sayin they'll take more internationals if they dont get more research fundings. Thats completely unfair
I think that a better way to sort it out is to not vote for parties which propose to massively cut university funding: that doesn't help young people in the least.
This thread is silly. Go on the Cambridge website, and it will tell you that because of funding and limitations, the competition for international students is even more fierce. Why do you think Oxbridge are constantly being accused of racism? (of course Oxford only accepted 5 black students last year...). Ok barring Oxbridge who really do not need the extra dosh (donations) other elite universities are more willing than ox and cam to accept internationals but again, there are always less places for them, eg the economics with something course at UCL has 70 places: 8 of those for internationals. in conclusion, it is not, and never will be easier for internationals to get into top universities. It is like me saying I got rejected because I am a girl and less boys apply to uni, and so its easier for boys to get.
BTW, just to clarify, Im a home student.
Original post by Princess of Hearts
It is like me saying I got rejected because I am a girl and less boys apply to uni, and so its easier for boys to get.
Exactly. At my chosen university there is a ratio of about 89:11 or something like that. Does that mean that the university prefers male students?
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