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Vegetarians...

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Reply 40
Original post by -Invidious-
Im not citing any study, just a trend I myself have noticed. And im saying the moral reason is pretty dumb, as long as the animal is killed in a humane way I don't see what the problem is.


How can any killing be humane when the animal being killed is neither seriously ill nor badly injured?

Anyone kidding themselves by saying the animals are killed humanly "is pretty dumb".


Original post by anomynous
i will never ever become a vegetarian because i love meat too much, never mind whether it's good or bad for you. I have tried quorn and it's an okay substitute but isn't really the same thing. However I look down on cruelty to farm animals so i'm boycotting KFC even though i love KFC so maybe that's why some people choose not to eat meat.


So, you're against animal cruelty, but happily advocate the wholesale slaughter of thousands of animals daily?
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by bluewater69
I don't have a problem at all with them. But never trust a Vegetarian who happens to be a Hippy. They are the most self obsessed ***** you'll ever meet.


What exactly is your definition of a "hippy"? Before you jump to conclusions and assume everyone is exactly the same in their mentality and demeanor, perhaps you should make an effort to have a better understanding of various subcultures. The hippies that first emerged from the movement back in the 1960's are very different from the ones today. Labels in it of themselves are misleading. Generally speaking, there are people who impose their beliefs on others and spread false information on why eating meat is bad, that doesn't apply to everyone who chooses to have that kind of diet.
Original post by tillytots
Haha, everytime someone shows me meat or asks if I'd like to try it, I just can't bring myself to try it.

Slightly off topic, but out of curiosity do you eat 'fake meat' (quorn chicken etc ) ? I know a lot of 'new' vegetarians as such who seem to live on it, but I've noticed it seems to be not as common in us life longs....


I LOVE Quorn chicken! My whole stance on "fake meat" is that it helps for those of us who used to be avid meat eaters and are now vegetarians. I have been a vegetarian for a little over three years now, but I still crave meat from time to time. Given my current living situation, I'm also surrounded by it a lot, so I feel tempted often. The other thing about this specific company is that they don't put a bunch of crap into the product, just a few vegetables. Morning Star, on the other hand, who knows what is in it?
Original post by Hylean
Actually, it makes perfect sense. Do some research and you'll see. For instance, vegetarians who have been so for a long enough period of time lose the ability to digest meat, as we stop producing the enzyme, which some people shows that we only produce it because we eat meat, not because we are supposed to eat meat. There's a wealth of research out there on the topic, showing how eating meat is bad for us because we can't digest it properly; how it is linked to osteoperosis, cancer, heart disease and strokes; how we are, apparently, actually herbivores not omnivores.

As for the amino-acids, etc. we can get those elsewhere. That all being said, the healthiest diet, sans supplements, is actually pescetarianism, so.


I'm also fairly certain that if you eat enough apples, you'll get cancer. Of course if a person has no meat all their life, they probably wouldn't be able to digest it. I have had meat a few times since I turned vegetarian, and I was fine. This kind of thing varies on a individual basis. Overall, there is absolutely no question that we're omnivores and meant to have both animals and plants in our diet. Simply look at you're teeth, why do we have canines? Just because there is some bull**** research out there, doesn't mean it's true. You can't believe everything you read, you have to trust the source as well. Where else can we get amino acids aside from animals, plants, and taking them directly as a supplement? Where else are you going to get the essential amino acids only found in animals?
Original post by -Invidious-
Saw an episode of Come dine with me earlier and it got me thinking; anyone else notice the majority of "vegetarians" our age (17-23) are usually females just merely trying to be hip/cool/different? With completely retarded reasons for being vegetarian, such as "we don't have a necessary enzyme that digests meat" and "killing animals is wrong", all the while wearing leather and more often that not eating fish "because they're not as smart".


Well, what does it matter to you??????????????? Who are you to decide if their reasons are kosher or not. Some eat animal, some don't. Some who don't are hipsters, some aren't.
Reply 45
You can be a vegetarian at any age.

My mum is 39 and she's always wanted to be one but when she was younger she was never allowed to because her mother and father had traditional, old fashioned attitudes towards the issue of vegetarianism.

A few years ago she went on a diet and I think that helped her to recognise the food she enjoyed eating and found that she didn't miss eating meat. My mum being a lover of animals and the environment and being against the way they're treated in farms etc... found it easy to become a vegetarian.

Most people are vegetarians because of things like this.
Reply 46
Original post by lilnikkita
I'm also fairly certain that if you eat enough apples, you'll get cancer. Of course if a person has no meat all their life, they probably wouldn't be able to digest it. I have had meat a few times since I turned vegetarian, and I was fine. This kind of thing varies on a individual basis. Overall, there is absolutely no question that we're omnivores and meant to have both animals and plants in our diet. Simply look at you're teeth, why do we have canines? Just because there is some bull**** research out there, doesn't mean it's true. You can't believe everything you read, you have to trust the source as well. Where else can we get amino acids aside from animals, plants, and taking them directly as a supplement? Where else are you going to get the essential amino acids only found in animals?


Last time I checked, there wasn't a wealth of research showing direct links between apples and cancer. As you also seem to have ignored, I pointed out that humans stop producing the enzyme if they don't eat meat for a long period of time, that does not mean their entire life. It's usually a few years of no meat in your diet at all. Have you been vegetarian for that long? Were you vegetarian for a long time before you had meat again? It does not vary on individual basis, the time it takes for the production to stop might, but it will invariably stop.

Why isn't it a question? I've seen plenty of people, scientists, vegetarians and random weirdos, say that we are actually herbivores, so clearly it is a question. As someone pointed out in a lecture, our teeth mean nothing, as plenty of herbivores have canines and sharp teeth.

As for essential amino acids, a short hop to google shows that you can get all the essential amino acids in non-animal products, without supplements: http://www.tandurust.com/diet/essential-amino-acids-list.html for instance.

People who dislike what research tells them often attempt to hide behind it by attacking the source. Of course we must always question the source, but you should question the source of your preconceptions as well and not dismiss research out of hand just because you dislike what it tells you or it goes against something you've been brought up on.
Reply 47
Original post by Hylean

So, you're against animal cruelty, but happily advocate the wholesale slaughter of thousands of animals daily?


Are you seriously saying that you can't care about animal welfare if you eat meat?
Reply 48
Original post by Cybele
Are you seriously saying that you can't care about animal welfare if you eat meat?


I'm saying it's hypocritical to claim you're against animal cruelty but support an industry based solely on killing them.
Reply 49
Original post by frequent_flyer
I assume you're being sarcastic here, in which case well played, very well played.

I'm a vegetarian not because I think it's wrong, but because I don't like the taste. I eat sweets with gelatine in them because I like them.
And fish smell when they get taken out of the sea. All there is to it


You're not a vegetarian if you consume gelatine. It seems a bit hypocritical to pick and choose what you eat because you like/dislike them and call yourself a vegetarian when you're consuming something that is not vegetarian-friendly.
Reply 50
Original post by Hylean
I'm saying it's hypocritical to claim you're against animal cruelty but support an industry based solely on killing them.


It isn't hypocritical in the slightest. I don't define killing an animal for meat 'cruel', when they're killed in a split second with no pain/awareness of what's going on.
If anything, being a vegetarian is far from cool - have you seen how much **** vegetarians get for choosing not to eat meat?

I'm not trying to be anything; I just don't want to eat meat.
Reply 52
Original post by Cybele
It isn't hypocritical in the slightest. I don't define killing an animal for meat 'cruel', when they're killed in a split second with no pain/awareness of what's going on.


Murder is murder, it's cruel, regardless of how you try to dress it up, especially as meat is not essential to our diet.
Reply 53
Original post by Hylean
Murder is murder, it's cruel, regardless of how you try to dress it up, especially as meat is not essential to our diet.


Animals killing animals is a fact of life. I don't see why humans should be excluded from this because some people claim it's 'cruel'. If you're going to play the moral capacity card then fair enough, but again, I disagree with your reasoning on what's cruel and what isn't.
Reply 54
Original post by Cybele
Animals killing animals is a fact of life. I don't see why humans should be excluded from this because some people claim it's 'cruel'. If you're going to play the moral capacity card then fair enough, but again, I disagree with your reasoning on what's cruel and what isn't.


Animal's killing animals is a fact of life. However, those animals need to kill others to survive. Humans don't and are generally healthier without meat, even without entering the debate on whether we are actually herbivores or omnivores. We also kill far more animals than we will ever eat, so we are doing a lot of it pointlessly. The idea that it is "humane" is bull****, as if the cutting of the throat is a humane way to kill anything.

Put it this way, would you be calling it humane and okay if you were the one at the receiving end, or would you call it slavery, cruelty, inhumane and all the rest?
Original post by Hylean
Last time I checked, there wasn't a wealth of research showing direct links between apples and cancer. As you also seem to have ignored, I pointed out that humans stop producing the enzyme if they don't eat meat for a long period of time, that does not mean their entire life. It's usually a few years of no meat in your diet at all. Have you been vegetarian for that long? Were you vegetarian for a long time before you had meat again? It does not vary on individual basis, the time it takes for the production to stop might, but it will invariably stop.

Why isn't it a question? I've seen plenty of people, scientists, vegetarians and random weirdos, say that we are actually herbivores, so clearly it is a question. As someone pointed out in a lecture, our teeth mean nothing, as plenty of herbivores have canines and sharp teeth.

As for essential amino acids, a short hop to google shows that you can get all the essential amino acids in non-animal products, without supplements: http://www.tandurust.com/diet/essential-amino-acids-list.html for instance.

People who dislike what research tells them often attempt to hide behind it by attacking the source. Of course we must always question the source, but you should question the source of your preconceptions as well and not dismiss research out of hand just because you dislike what it tells you or it goes against something you've been brought up on.


I was being completely sarcastic about the apple comment. My point is that you can say virtually anything is bad for you and paranoia leads to people making assumptions that it is very easy to get sick if you're exposed to too much of a particular food or activity (yes I recognize I'm being vague, but I'm just trying to make a generalized statement).

I have been a vegetarian for over three years now. I know people who have been vegetarians for longer than that and went back to eating meat. Off the top of my head I can name two people who were vegetarians for seven and nine years and went back to eating meat without a problem. On the other hand, I know a woman who was a vegetarian growing up and tried to eat meat as an adult and can't process it. I still believe it varies on a case by case basis. Another way to put it is that there are always exceptions to the rule.

As someone coming from a biology background and having studied this for years, it makes no sense to me that one would argue we're herbivores. From an evolutionary standpoint, both plants and animals have always been in our diet.

I find it humorous that you think I reject something simply because it goes against my beliefs. For one, I am a vegetarian arguing the importance of meat. You have also assumed I was brought up with the beliefs I currently carry, but do you have any idea how I was brought up? I grew up in a Russian family, where meat is largely part of every meal. I believed it was essential for health reasons. Now my belief system has changed greatly. I think it is vital to look at both sides of every argument and to formulate an opinion only after you have taken the time to understand both sides. Many people have a belief and then search for everything that fuels it, but that is blind thinking. I became a vegetarian because of what I've learned over the years. My beliefs are based on research and knowledge.
Reply 56
Original post by Hylean
Animal's killing animals is a fact of life. However, those animals need to kill others to survive.


OK, fair point. But what about, for example, chimpanzees - our closest living relative - they don't 'require' meat, but they will hunt when they want to. Same with any omnivore really.

We also kill far more animals than we will ever eat


I agree with this.

The idea that it is "humane" is bull****, as if the cutting of the throat is a humane way to kill anything.


Unless you're choosing Halal/kosher meat, then the animal is stunned before the throat is cut. It's instantly brain dead. It's probably a nicer way to go then when an animal is hunted in the wild.
That's kind of the point I was making. They're mixed because they don't work too well alone as a focus like meat can. Which is why fake meats sell, new vegetarians aren't used to cooking that way for the most part.

Though I'm not quite sure where you got that implication from, I didn't say anything like it.

Original post by Cybele

Unless you're choosing Halal/kosher meat, then the animal is stunned before the throat is cut. It's instantly brain dead. It's probably a nicer way to go then when an animal is hunted in the wild.


It's probably way nicer to be pickpocketed than mugged, that doesn't rationalise being a pickpocket though.
(edited 13 years ago)
I'm a male vegetarian. :woo:
Yeah I pretty much explained why we rarely have lone vegetables.

You've just taken what I said out of context and it's given it completely new meaning. I was saying that because you can't compare the taste of a lone vegetable to meats is why fake meats sell to changed vegetarians but not life-longs so much.

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