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P45 received - does not list total pay to date or total tax to date

Hi,

I got my P45 in the post today and it does not include printed on it either "Total pay to date" or "Total tax to date" - is this meant to happen?

Cheers
Reply 1
Avatar for Kurshu
Kurshu
5
You get a P45 from your employer when you stop working for them.

It shows:

•

your tax code and PAYE (Pay As You Earn) reference number

•

your National Insurance number

•

your leaving date

•

your earnings in the tax year

•

how much Income Tax and National Insurance contributions were deducted from your earnings



Your P60 is the summary of your pay and the tax that's been deducted from it in the tax year.
Original post by audacityofhuge

Original post by audacityofhuge
Hi,

I got my P45 in the post today and it does not include printed on it either "Total pay to date" or "Total tax to date" - is this meant to happen?

Cheers


How much of the form is completed if it doesn't show your total pay or total tax? They'd usually be quite important parts of the form. Does the form have a tax code shown on it and if so, what is it?
Original post by Illusionary
How much of the form is completed if it doesn't show your total pay or total tax? They'd usually be quite important parts of the form. Does the form have a tax code shown on it and if so, what is it?


Basically it includes the following printed on it bar the last two entries -

Employer PAYE Reference: Included
Employee's National Insurance number: Included
Title: Included
Surname: Included
First (or given) name: Included
Leaving date: Included
Student loan deducations: Included
Tax Code at leaving date: Included
Week number: Included
Total pay to date: Not included
Total tax to date: Not included
Original post by audacityofhuge

Original post by audacityofhuge
Basically it includes the following printed on it bar the last two entries -

Employer PAYE Reference: Included
Employee's National Insurance number: Included
Title: Included
Surname: Included
First (or given) name: Included
Leaving date: Included
Student loan deducations: Included
Tax Code at leaving date: Included
Week number: Included
Total pay to date: Not included
Total tax to date: Not included


I'd suggest following that up with your employer. What tax code is shown?
Original post by Illusionary
I'd suggest following that up with your employer. What tax code is shown?

647L (W1)
Original post by audacityofhuge

Original post by audacityofhuge
647L (W1)


Ah, okay :ms:

You're on a 'non-cumulative' tax code, where each pay period (weekly in your case) is treated in isolation. See also here: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1083051228&type=RESOURCES
Original post by Illusionary
Ah, okay :ms:

You're on a 'non-cumulative' tax code, where each pay period (weekly in your case) is treated in isolation. See also here: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1083051228&type=RESOURCES

Which leads me to ask another question xD I've only worked 6 months of this tax year, and I guess being on that tax-code I'll have been taxed as if I've been working the full year/emergency tax? I was only on minimum wage/35 hours so I think I'm owed nearly all my (£25 a week say) tax back..?
Original post by audacityofhuge

Original post by audacityofhuge
Which leads me to ask another question xD I've only worked 6 months of this tax year, and I guess being on that tax-code I'll have been taxed as if I've been working the full year/emergency tax? I was only on minimum wage/35 hours so I think I'm owed nearly all my (£25 a week say) tax back..?

That's pretty close to chat's likely to have happened. A 'week 1' non-cumulative tax code will take your personal allowance (the standard allowance being £6,475 for 2010/11) and divide this by the number of weeks in the year - giving £6,475/52 = £125 based on the standard allowance. If you earn more than this in a week, you'll be taxed at a rate of 20% on the excess. If your total income for the year doesn't exceed your personal allowance, you should be able to reclaim any Income Tax paid for the year. Get in touch with your tax office to see what documentation they'd need from you to support a refund claim, particularly in the light of the blank boxes on your P45.
Original post by Illusionary
That's pretty close to chat's likely to have happened. A 'week 1' non-cumulative tax code will take your personal allowance (the standard allowance being £6,475 for 2010/11) and divide this by the number of weeks in the year - giving £6,475/52 = £125 based on the standard allowance. If you earn more than this in a week, you'll be taxed at a rate of 20% on the excess. If your total income for the year doesn't exceed your personal allowance, you should be able to reclaim any Income Tax paid for the year. Get in touch with your tax office to see what documentation they'd need from you to support a refund claim, particularly in the light of the blank boxes on your P45.

Cheers. Is that a 'lazy' tax code employer-wise or is it perfectly common?
Original post by audacityofhuge

Original post by audacityofhuge
Cheers. Is that a 'lazy' tax code employer-wise or is it perfectly common?


I wouldn't say it's lazy, no. The correct tax code for an employer to use depends on the documents that you provide when you start the job: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/emergency-code.htm#4
Original post by audacityofhuge
Cheers. Is that a 'lazy' tax code employer-wise or is it perfectly common?


It's common. I do payroll, and if someone doesn't provide a P45 or fill in a P46, then they are put on a 647L Week/month 1 code until either they give us the info or the tax office sends us a notice to say what tax code they're on.

(However this is changing from 5th April 2011 - if you don't give your employer a P45 or P46 when you start a new job -or don't tick box A/B/C on the P46, amazing how many people don't - then you will be put straight onto a BR code, so you'll be taxed 20% on everything)
Reply 12
Avatar for DJKL
DJKL
17
Original post by 26daystoworkwith
It's common. I do payroll, and if someone doesn't provide a P45 or fill in a P46, then they are put on a 647L Week/month 1 code until either they give us the info or the tax office sends us a notice to say what tax code they're on.

(However this is changing from 5th April 2011 - if you don't give your employer a P45 or P46 when you start a new job -or don't tick box A/B/C on the P46, amazing how many people don't - then you will be put straight onto a BR code, so you'll be taxed 20% on everything)


I was under the distinct impression that currently if no P45 or P46 signed as only or main/first employment since education that at present employees should be placed on BR, I was not aware of a recent change, this has been the rule for years.

The taxationweb guidance suggests the employer in this circumstance completes the P46 with none of the boxes, A, B or C ticked, submits to HMRC and applies BR code until advised otherwise by HMRC.
Original post by DJKL

Original post by DJKL
I was under the distinct impression that currently if no P45 or P46 signed as only or main/first employment since education that at present employees should be placed on BR, I was not aware of a recent change, this has been the rule for years.

The taxationweb guidance suggests the employer in this circumstance completes the P46 with none of the boxes, A, B or C ticked, submits to HMRC and applies BR code until advised otherwise by HMRC.


Good point - that's my understanding as well and is backed up by HMRC's own guidance (often the best resource for this sort of thing!) here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/employees/start-leave/new-employee.htm

In any case, this doesn't affect how the thread starter here should proceed. :smile:
Reply 14
Avatar for DJKL
DJKL
17
Original post by Illusionary
Good point - that's my understanding as well and is backed up by HMRC's own guidance (often the best resource for this sort of thing!) here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/employees/start-leave/new-employee.htm

In any case, this doesn't affect how the thread starter here should proceed. :smile:


One thought that did strike me re the OP is that as they are on a week one code the totals for year would not be given, only the figures for this employment. Given there are more than one "carbons" given to the employee on leaving, have they looked at both the "one for new employer" and the "one to be retained by them", as from memory it is only the employee retained copy that has the figures for the just finished employment with the one for new employer merely having the code. (I am working from memory here as I am not in office to check)
Original post by DJKL
One thought that did strike me re the OP is that as they are on a week one code the totals for year would not be given, only the figures for this employment. Given there are more than one "carbons" given to the employee on leaving, have they looked at both the "one for new employer" and the "one to be retained by them", as from memory it is only the employee retained copy that has the figures for the just finished employment with the one for new employer merely having the code. (I am working from memory here as I am not in office to check)

Hello, neither of them have the pay/tax to date on.
Reply 16
Avatar for DJKL
DJKL
17
Original post by audacityofhuge
Hello, neither of them have the pay/tax to date on.


It would therefore appear someone has made a mistake and you should, as others have advised, check with your ex employer.

I presume the P45 was handwritten as it would be very strange if payroll software was functioning as described?
Original post by DJKL
It would therefore appear someone has made a mistake and you should, as others have advised, check with your ex employer.

I presume the P45 was handwritten as it would be very strange if payroll software was functioning as described?

Nope it is "legit"! I thought the tax-code explained why neither both copies would list total tax or total pay to date?
Reply 18
Avatar for DJKL
DJKL
17
Original post by audacityofhuge
Nope it is "legit"! I thought the tax-code explained why neither both copies would list total tax or total pay to date?


No, the week one code would mean the total gross and year to date boxes for all successive employments to that point would not be completed, however the "This employment" boxes ought to be completed. The four part P45 is designed that one part is sent by old employer to HMRC, two parts are given to new employer who completes one and sends to HMRC, retaining the other for his file and the final part is for the employee to keep for his/her records, especially if he/she requires to submit either a tax return/repayment claim.

Therefore notwithstanding the code in use the minimum information should include final tax code and either gross for the particular employment and tax for the particular employment if week1 code or cumulative totals if cumulative code in use.

The undernoted website/ links (and paste below) make this clear.

www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/WorkingAndPayingTax/DG_10013512


www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/p45.pdf

Look at boxes 7 and 8 on the proforma above, one or other requires to be completed; the P45 form itself expressly states this to be the case. Accordingly if you have neither completed the form is surely incorrectly completed.

"P45

You get a P45 from your employer when you stop working for them. It's a record of your pay and the tax that's been deducted from it so far in the tax year. It shows:

* your tax code and PAYE (Pay As You Earn) reference number
* your National Insurance number
* your leaving date
* your earnings in the tax year
* how much tax was deducted from your earnings

A P45 has four parts - Part 1, Part 1A, Part 2 and Part 3.

Your employer sends Part 1 to HMRC and gives you the other three.

When you start a new job, or claim Jobseeker's Allowance, you give Part 2 and Part 3 to your new employer or to the Jobcentre.

You keep the remaining one - Part 1A for your own records.

Your employer should automatically give you a P45 when you stop working for them. If not, ask for it - you're entitled to it by law."

Trust this helps.:smile:
(edited 13 years ago)
I have been offered a job started to get paid before start date waiting dbs checked now the job have been withdraw out getting a notice

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