Anti-Street Harassment UK- a new feminist group.

Try not to think of this solely from your perspective, as someone who seems to be afraid of strangers. Think of it from the perspective of the average woman who goes out looking nice.

I'm working-class. Very working-class actually. Currently a mature student funding myself through the final year of university.

I grew up in an area where, only a few years ago, there was a huge campaign against domestic abuse in relationships, because it is so common still that the zero tolerance message needed re-inforcing - that's feminism.

I temped in a job where two women discussed loudly how one of them had a neighbour who was beaten up by her husband, and how embarrassed would they have been if it was them? Trying to correct that viewpoint? That's feminism.

I worked in an industry where females are highly outnumbered by guys. I've been overlooked for promotion for two, less qualified, guys. I've been spoken to patronisingly where my colleagues weren't because a short female is a "girl" in the eyes of many middle-aged men, whereas a six foot male is definitely a man. I left that company, but before I did I did a lot of groundwork so the women coming after me might find it that bit easier. And that? Is feminism.

And now I'm applying for jobs all over again. I leave my engagement ring off when I go to interviews because in a smaller company I've learnt that woman with engagement ring = marriage = pregnancy = oh no, maternity leave!

My partner, in the same industry, tells recruiters intentionally that he's engaged because it convinces them he won't be after moving any time soon. For a man, marriage == stability.

Now, working so my younger sisters don't experience that. Might that be feminism?

My comment clearly wasnt aimed at a woman in your situation or a woman who gets abused by her boyfriend/husband dont see why you had to quote it maybe you just feel like having a rant maybe you just want someone to listen to your problems. Still I saw no point in you quoting me than commenting on it and how do you know those two guys who got promoted where underqualified compared to you are you just guessing ?also this doesnt make it feminist In one of my past jobs a girl was working there who had basicly no qualifications and me the male with the qualifications didnt get that job. Why do I know she did'nt have any? because she told me.

Should I start moaning like you?

Please if your gonna attempt to attack my words and quote me please make sure its justified and dont make silly attacks when my comments was not aimed at woman who are in a bad underprivileged situation as I have clearly stated in my comments its completely ludicrous of you.

You keep telling me this and that is feminism I know what woman go through I know the true feminst issues I have not once in my last comment written it does'nt
EXIST so If thats what you got from it you have issues.

All I said was woman should'nt make out that they are the greater victim and forget about male issues because fact is theyre are not the greater victim males and females are both victim.However the sad truth is today in the present day you woman have it very good you have'nt just got rights you have more than that and still want more than that by the way this really only applies to western woman. You basicly want to have the cake and eat it.

There are way more job opportunities out there for woman in todays society you modern woman are just moaners theres aways someone to blame for your issues infact thats why you have so much rights because unlike we man who just stay quiet when treated like crap you woman stand up and put a lable on everything as sexist/feminist. Maybe you should just look at yourself and ask am I upto the job?

Before someone attacks me no this isnt aimed at all woman.

You just sound like a woman who needs someone to hug and listen to you try get some counseling.

My comment clearly wasnt aimed at a woman in your situation or a woman who gets abused by her boyfriend/husband dont see why you had to quote it maybe you just feel like having a rant maybe you just want someone to listen to your problems. Still I saw no point in you quoting me than commenting on it and how do you know those two guys who got promoted where underqualified compared to you are you just guessing ?also this doesnt make it feminist In one of my past jobs a girl was working there who had basicly no qualifications and me the male with the qualifications didnt get that job. Why do I know she did'nt have any? because she told me.

Should I start moaning like you?

Please if your gonna attempt to attack my words and quote me please make sure its justified and dont make silly attacks when my comments was not aimed at woman who are in a bad underprivileged situation as I have clearly stated in my comments its completely ludicrous of you.

You keep telling me this and that is feminism I know what woman go through I know the true feminst issues I have not once in my last comment written it does'nt
EXIST so If thats what you got from it you have issues.

All I said was woman should'nt make out that they are the greater victim and forget about male issues because fact is theyre are not the greater victim males and females are both victim.However the sad truth is today in the present day you woman have it very good you have'nt just got rights you have more than that and still want more than that by the way this really only applies to western woman. You basicly want to have the cake and eat it.

There are way more job opportunities out there for woman in todays society you modern woman are just moaners theres aways someone to blame for your issues infact thats why you have so much rights because unlike we man who just stay quiet when treated like crap you woman stand up and put a lable on everything as sexist/feminist. Maybe you should just look at yourself and ask am I upto the job?

Before someone attacks me no this isnt aimed at all woman.

You just sound like a woman who needs someone to hug and listen to you try get some counseling.

Back on topic, lewd comments and skirt chasing is a compliment not an insult even though it is perceived as the latter.

The wording of 'protected persons' rather than 'all humans' implies some sort of abnormal status.. what happens if a few school children stare at a disabled child out of curiosity? What happens then? You might be able to dictate social change by supporting a 'protected person' where its illegal to shout at a women in the street or whatever but you cant stop infantile curiosity without segregating children and when they turn on the tele they will see the elephant man and be curious again!

A Muslim is offended by women showing skin, a racist is offended by people with different coloured skin, a vegan is offended by meat eaters, a rock fan is offended by hip hop, OAPs are offended by swearwords on tv, a conservative is offended by labour policies, a protester is offended by whatever they are protesting against, a homophobe is offended by a homosexual, a man city fan is offended by a man united fan..
I am offended by skinny mustard yellow jeans and women wearing mens shoes..

What im saying is, regardless of ridding the world of wrongs (racism, homophobia or whatever) there is no right not to be offended otherwise every single person in the world would be breaking the law

And what about the scores of women who dont dress suggestively and get it anyway? I mentioned in an earlier post that I was yelled at whilst wearing a trouser suit.

How are blokes not getting this through their heads? ITS NOT ABOUT CLOTHING. IT HAPPENS REGARDLESS.

My comment clearly wasnt aimed at a woman in your situation or a woman who gets abused by her boyfriend/husband dont see why you had to quote it maybe you just feel like having a rant maybe you just want someone to listen to your problems.

how do you know those two guys who got promoted where underqualified compared to you are you just guessing ?

also this doesnt make it feminist In one of my past jobs a girl was working there who had basicly no qualifications and me the male with the qualifications didnt get that job. Why do I know she did'nt have any? because she told me.

Should I start moaning like you?

Please if your gonna attempt to attack my words and quote me please make sure its justified and dont make silly attacks when my comments was not aimed at woman who are in a bad underprivileged situation as I have clearly stated in my comments its completely ludicrous of you.


You keep telling me this and that is feminism I know what woman go through I know the true feminst issues I have not once in my last comment written it does'nt
EXIST so If thats what you got from it you have issues.

All I said was woman should'nt make out that they are the greater victim and forget about male issues because fact is theyre are not the greater victim males and females are both victim.However the sad truth is today in the present day you woman have it very good you have'nt just got rights you have more than that and still want more than that by the way this really only applies to western woman. You basicly want to have the cake and eat it.

There are way more job opportunities out there for woman in todays society

You just sound like a woman who needs someone to hug and listen to you try get some counseling.

Firstly, thank you for your good manners, rather than yelling that I'm wrong. It is appreciated.

Secondly, I'd like to ask you to read back through this thread, and this time look for the women's responses rather than the guys.

I've seen a lot of women stating that this sort of attention makes them uncomfortable.

I've seen some women stating that it doesn't bother them, or they ignore it.

I've seen some stating that the best response is to yell back.

What I haven't seen is many, if any at all, saying that they enjoy this attention. This would echo my observations from day to day life -- I don't actually know any women personally (and again, working class and at uni -- I've got friends a lot posher than me and friends some people might call chavs) who would say they enjoyed it.

In that light, I would ask you to re-consider whether women, ANY women, ARE looking for this type of attention or whether that's just a common assumption by men? Or whether, if there are women looking for and enjoying that kind of attention, they might not be the anomaly rather than the ones who dislike it? And, if that is the case, whether it is morally correct to continue offering an attention which you know there is an over 50% chance that the person in question will either actively dislike or just ignore?

Trouser suits are quite suggestive, to be fair.

Alternatives... burqa might help lol - might be a bit of an overkill though.

Btw, I was talking to Adonis recently - and even though I don't really like you (not a surprise), gotta say you're strikingly good looking. But you're still a massive **** lol.

We were on the same three year training scheme through the company, in classes with publicly available marks. I also asked for feedback on why I hadn't been offered the places, and the people doing the interviewing struggled to come up with reasons.

The women are looking for attention though. That was my point. Just because it didn't come from where they wanted it, doesn't mean it wont come.

I don't think calling out to someone in the street is harassment. Annoying. But not harassment. And as I said it is very rare that it will be any more than a comment. The best thing to do is ignore them. Which is why groups like this seem unnecessary. If a woman is getting problems in the street the best place to go is to the police, not to a feminist website.

The women are looking for attention though. That was my point. Just because it didn't come from where they wanted it, doesn't mean it wont come.

I don't think calling out to someone in the street is harassment. Annoying. But not harassment. And as I said it is very rare that it will be any more than a comment. The best thing to do is ignore them. Which is why groups like this seem unnecessary. If a woman is getting problems in the street the best place to go is to the police, not to a feminist website.

in fairness there are lots of qualities that people look for when hiring that are not exactly tangible.

Your personality and general presence can play a huge part, but are they meant to tell you that they just didn't like you. I doubt you would have accepted that.

there's also the risk of women getting pregnant and the interference that would cause. I mean you've got the maternity leave, and then when the child is born it's invariably a distraction.

That's easier said than done though. If you're in the street and feeling threatened, the police are unlikely to be conveniently right there. You could walk to the nearest police station, but that might be through an even more isolated area or some distance away. You could phone for help, but that's a local station call not 999 and presuming you have the number the response time still sucks. You could report it after the event, but how do you prove it?

That's easier said than done though. If you're in the street and feeling threatened, the police are unlikely to be conveniently right there. You could walk to the nearest police station, but that might be through an even more isolated area or some distance away. You could phone for help, but that's a local station call not 999 and presuming you have the number the response time still sucks. You could report it after the event, but how do you prove it?

So what do you expect the government and police to do about to prevent the "harassment" eh? Put CCTV cameras on the four corners of the Earth, on every inch of ground and remove our freedom & privacy? Give each "offender" life-time imprisonment?

I bet this will still not be enough for you feminists because there'll always be something else to moan about

The issue is probably the hassle involved as well. If you've been minding your own business and are accosted groped etc, it's not like it's going to be your fault. So one may feel, "Why should I ruin my evening going to the hassle of calling the police, waiting for them to turn up etc for something that wasn't my fault"

The creation of a valid group could increase social pressure making the police more aware of and ready to act on such behaviour though imo.

Actually, I would take it as a good start if you guys could manage a "People who purposely make other people uncomfortable by behaving in an unwanted lewd fashion towards them are wrong. I won't do it, I will prevent my friends from doing it, and if I see someone (male or female) who seems to be uncomfortable or upset by unwanted attention I will consider stepping in". No government intervention required.

I can live by the above. Can you?

Or even just more patrols around problem areas. (Which, as such areas are frequently nightspots known for muggings and more serious sexual crimes might well also help with those.)

I haven't got a problem with that. But why do we men have to step in? According to you feminists, you females are equal with us. So why can't women step in as well? Why is it only men that should step in?