For all you anti gun hoplophobes on here

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I would argue that gun crime rates by themselves mean nothing. Country A could have high murder rates and low gun crime rates. Country B could have low murder rates and high gun crime rates. Although gun crimes aren't strictly murders, it's pretty obvious to anyone that the latter, country B, is preferable.

I don't see any reason why an increase in gun crime rates should cause an overall decrease in murder rates though.

Suppose guns are illegal in Country A. It has a murder rate of X, and a gun crime rate of Y.
Now suppose guns are made legal in country A. You'd naturally expect the gun crime rate to go up. The murder rate might go up slightly - but you certainly wouldn't expect it to go down.

So I think the comparison you're making between country A and country B isn't really relevant here. Country B hasn't really got much to do with it. In deciding whether or not guns should be legal, we should be comparing Country A pre-legalisation of guns against country A post-legalisation of guns.

Pre-legalisation: Murder rate X, Gun crime rate Y
Post-legalisation: Murder rate higher than X, Gun crime rate higher than Y

In this case, Country A is preferable pre-legalisation.

The murder rates are what they are. They're not going to be made any better by legalising guns, nor will they be made any worse by illegalising guns. However, the legality of guns does affect the gun crime rate (including non-murderous gun crime). To keep this at a minimum, guns need to be illegal.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 181

Emaemmaemily

Look at America.
They have a very high murder rate, high gun crimes in general, and too many deaths caused by ACCIDENT because guns are so common.
Guns are extremely rare in this country... Of course there are the illegal ones.
If you are attacked in the street (mugging, rape, whatever), it will be with a knife (or something similar).. You have MUCH more chance of escaping/fighitng off someone with a knife than someone with a gun.

Reply 182

Hardballer

Original post by Emaemmaemily

Haven you been to America? because I have and I can tell you I felt even safer where I was than here and you could buy a sub machine gun in a pawn shop. The avalaiblity of guns does not make a society more dangerous, only people themselves can, just look at south africa, strict gun laws and 50 murders and 350 rapes a day

Reply 183

Bosch

Original post by Hardballer

I'm sure he could if I was UNARMED

And what if you're armed? Think you have what it takes to look a man in the eyes as you shoot him between them? Because if you don't then you, or your family are going to be shot a lot quicker, because I guarantee that the person robbing you is going to care a lot less about killing than you would be.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 184

Bosch

Original post by Hardballer

And what about the many people who carry knives in England? Are you telling me you'd rather they carry guns? Yea that would be safe, but hey, atleast you, the hero with the gun would be there to save the day haha, I can tell you think your the only person who would buy a gun, make yourself feel all powerful?

Reply 185

Good bloke

Original post by Hardballer

The avalaiblity of guns does not make a society more dangerous,

Of course it does. Any home that contains a gun is an accident waiting to happen, even if the gun is used only for sporting purposes and not used against people deliberately. There are no accidental gunshot wounds in a society that doesn't have guns; there are huge numbers of such injuries and deaths in the USA.

Reply 186

rockrunride

For the sake of humanity and the wellbeing of everyone not just here but all over Europe and the world, please keep Britain tidy.

Reply 187

Emaemmaemily

Original post by Hardballer

I lived in America for a while.
South Africa is hardly the same kind of place. It's partly the people yes... But you can't deny that if the USA had the same gun laws as us there would be less shootings... Quite a lot less. But it's a lot to do with the general attitude over there.

Reply 188

Hardballer

Original post by Bosch

you make it sound like a showdown in a movie, if I feel my life is threatened I would unload the clip into the threat until the threat was stopped, yes I would be prepared to take a life to save my own, and its perfectly legal to do so in self defence as long as the threat presented is substantial. you telling me you wouldn't do the same? your attacker is only human like you

Reply 189

Hardballer

Original post by Emaemmaemily

I lived in America for a while.
South Africa is hardly the same kind of place.

oh really????? America you can defend yourself and south africa you're gonna have to hope that your attacker doesn't want to rape and kill you after he's mugged you, which going by previous evidence is quite unlikely

Reply 190

Hardballer

Original post by rockrunride

For the sake of humanity and the wellbeing of everyone not just here but all over Europe and the world, please keep Britain tidy.

keep Britain tidy and the ****ty labour politicians out of parliament

Reply 191

Bosch

Original post by Hardballer

I've never taken a human life, so I wouldn't know how I'd react when it came to that, nobody could know until they are faced with that decision. Even if it turned out that I could kill a man, who knows how good my aim would be, I have a wife and kids, what if it hit them? I wouldn't want a burglar firing shots off in my house, incase it hit one of my family, my guess is your just a kid who wants to feel like a big man with a gun, nobody else could possibly be immature enough to think that gun legalisation would be a good thing

Reply 192

bestofyou

Original post by fwed1

Also the cost. Not just the increase in stress on the NHS with all the shootings but we would then have to arm and train all police because of the dangers.

Not that I disagree with what you say, but I'm not sure that would be an issue, a serious one anyway. The police over here have had guns for a long, long time now, and with the recent activity, probley won't change anytime soon.

Reply 193

Hardballer

Original post by Bosch

theres only one logical conclusion to this. The 80 million gun owners in America are all kids

Reply 194

Bosch

Original post by Hardballer

theres only one logical conclusion to this. The 80 million gun owners in America are all kids

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States America is a stupid example

And of course there is no answer to my other points, your arguements are filled with holes, good night

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 195

username133326

Original post by Hardballer

I would do whats nessecary to protect my life and if that means putting a .45 in his head then so be it, not much of a survivalist are you?

So either way, one of you dies?

Well done, you've just doubled the likelihood of a fatality in any armed confrontation...

Reply 196

Almonds are good

I don't think so. In America there are tons of shootings every day and that is probably because it is so easy for us to get guns. If everyone got a gun it would just turn into this big shootout that would cause even more damage.

Reply 197

MarcusTheEskimo

Original post by Almonds are good

So so so wrong. Everyone in Switzerland owns a gun, last time I checked it's one of the most peaceful countries on Earth, not a "big shootout" :rolleyes:

Reply 198

SFsucks

Original post by Hardballer

has strict gun laws really worked in this country?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371371/Stockwell-shop-shooting-Girl-5-critical-condition-gunman-fires-indiscriminately.html

**** no they haven't, we need our right to bear arms now, how was anyone on this street meant to defend themselves? and how does making it harder for law abiding sports shooters like me prevent shootings like this? I wonder if the shooter had a licence for his gun, yeh......****ing.......right

Humm, Daily Mail... I wont even consider touching that.

Reply 199

crazycake93

Original post by Hardballer

How often are shootings in the UK compared to USA... Roughly 40,000 deaths in the USA... Only 42 in the UK.

But tha'ts not fair, the USA has 6 times the population... so lets divide the deaths by 6...thats still 6666 deaths. So by having the right to bear arms means that you are 15771.5% more likely to die from the barrel of a gun.