Anti-Street Harassment UK- a new feminist group.
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Original post by imperial maniac
Why should it be socially unacceptable...
It's just ridiculous, illegal or not.
The other day in a form tutor lesson we had a lesson about feminism, my tutor comes out with
"Do you think we should call females ladies instead of women because men use the word women in a derogatory manner."
WHA?!!?!!
It's just ridiculous, illegal or not.
The other day in a form tutor lesson we had a lesson about feminism, my tutor comes out with
"Do you think we should call females ladies instead of women because men use the word women in a derogatory manner."
WHA?!!?!!
Why should it be socially unacceptable for men to harrass women in the street?
Good question. Idiot.
Original post by Lewroll
Continuing from all the threads about scantily clad women, and their right to dress how they wish without being groped.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12771938
Tldr- feminists are starting up groups with the aim of preventing men from harassing women on the street. 'Day in and day out millions of women are whistled at or shouted at on public streets...Anti-Street Harassment UK offer forums in which women can share their experiences, share photos of their harassers and view maps of where previous incidents have occurred.'
I can't speak for every guy. But when I see a good looking woman walking down the street, I'm going to look. Obviously I won't call out to her, or follow her home, or beat her with my club and drag her back to my cave, but theres no harm in looking, right?
Are groups like these really necessary? Or are women just being sensitive to some harmless staring
and wolf whistling? Have any TSR girls felt uncomfortable because of this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12771938
Tldr- feminists are starting up groups with the aim of preventing men from harassing women on the street. 'Day in and day out millions of women are whistled at or shouted at on public streets...Anti-Street Harassment UK offer forums in which women can share their experiences, share photos of their harassers and view maps of where previous incidents have occurred.'
I can't speak for every guy. But when I see a good looking woman walking down the street, I'm going to look. Obviously I won't call out to her, or follow her home, or beat her with my club and drag her back to my cave, but theres no harm in looking, right?
Are groups like these really necessary? Or are women just being sensitive to some harmless staring
and wolf whistling? Have any TSR girls felt uncomfortable because of this?Looking is fine, wolf whistling is okay. Touching is not. I have no problem if guys want to look, but the amount of times I've been grabbed by people is ridiculous. I think getting all menstrual about people looking is taking it way too far, but certain men need to know to keep their hands to themselves.
Original post by Arturo Bandini
Why should it be socially unacceptable for men to harrass women in the street?
Good question. Idiot.
Good question. Idiot.
What exactly do you mean by "harassment?" I mean tbh, some girls would see casual flirting as "harassment" when it's clearly not doing any harm.
Moron. (YAY! Let's have a flame war
or not)
Original post by Cable
But if these guys couldn't tell which type of girl it was going to be, you can't discriminate them for thinking it was a single woman (actively looking for relationships). And therefore, they let the girl know, albeit in a wrong manner, that they find her attractive.
On the other hand, if they don't know what type of girl it's going to be and whether they'll be "harassed", then they should shut up.
But like I said, this is too small a matter compared to global issues to waste people's time and energy on. I suggest you grow a pair or if you really feel harassed, call for help from surrounding people to step in.
Or if you want this movement to gain more credibility, this anti-harassment group should also include everybody in their case. Men, women, old people, kids (outside or in school) and everyone of all ages and races shouldn't be harassed. So whether it's a group of young girls, in school, shouting at boys and giggling about it toogether, a group of young boys, men in a van, sluts walking on the street at night shouting at men, teenage chavs shouting at old people, they should all be punished equally.
If a group of Year 7 girls are shouting at a nerd on the streets outside school (or in the school playground) and are giggling about it together and the boy feels harassed, then the group of girls should get the same punishment as the men in a van shouting to a woman "How's it going darling!"
On the other hand, if they don't know what type of girl it's going to be and whether they'll be "harassed", then they should shut up.
But like I said, this is too small a matter compared to global issues to waste people's time and energy on. I suggest you grow a pair or if you really feel harassed, call for help from surrounding people to step in.
Or if you want this movement to gain more credibility, this anti-harassment group should also include everybody in their case. Men, women, old people, kids (outside or in school) and everyone of all ages and races shouldn't be harassed. So whether it's a group of young girls, in school, shouting at boys and giggling about it toogether, a group of young boys, men in a van, sluts walking on the street at night shouting at men, teenage chavs shouting at old people, they should all be punished equally.
If a group of Year 7 girls are shouting at a nerd on the streets outside school (or in the school playground) and are giggling about it together and the boy feels harassed, then the group of girls should get the same punishment as the men in a van shouting to a woman "How's it going darling!"
Has anyone actually suggested punishment? The worst I suggested was "don't do it, suggest to your friends it's not a nice thing to do, step in if someone looks upset". Just.. decent human behaviour. Show your attraction by talking to people.
And if I had suggested punishment, I'm unsure why you feel children should get the same punishment as adults when this doesn't apply to anything else. Two teenagers scrapping in a playground get a suspension, two adults get arrested. A bullying kid gets a stern talk from the teacher, an adult loses their job. We expect more from adults than kids. Because.. they're kids. Developing social skills and all.
Original post by .Ali.
Looking is fine, wolf whistling is okay. Touching is not. I have no problem if guys want to look, but the amount of times I've been grabbed by people is ridiculous. I think getting all menstrual about people looking is taking it way too far, but certain men need to know to keep their hands to themselves.
I didn't realise so many girls have actually been groped before. Men don't really see the problem sometimes, because if we were getting felt up by women, we probably wouldn't care.
I do understand that if some women didn't go out with their arse and tits hanging out, they are more likely to face problems on the street. I'm not really surprised tbh, if you go out dress like that the chances are one guy will take it a bit too far.
People definitely should keep their hands to themselves. Unless of course, the other person doesn't mind a bit of touching
Original post by imperial maniac
What exactly do you mean by "harassment?" I mean tbh, some girls would see casual flirting as "harassment" when it's clearly not doing any harm.
Moron. (YAY! Let's have a flame war
or not)
Moron. (YAY! Let's have a flame war
or not)
I'm not having a flame war, I'm calling you an idiot because that's what you are being.
Whatever you want to call it, are you really saying that making it socially unacceptable for men to shout lewd things at women in the street is a bad thing?
My girlfriend experiences it all the time. If she is walking alone she will often have men, for example:
Shouting "hey sexy" at her from across the street or from car windows.
Following her as she walks down the road asking repeatedly for her phone number.
Slowing down in cars, usually with more than one guy in, and asking her questions and trying to get her number/go with them somewhere.
She finds all of the above harrassing and some of them scary. When she is trying to do is to mind her own business and walk to uni or the shop or whatever. I'm sure you can understand that if those things were happening to a female you cared about, you would be displeased? And surely you can agree that they should all be socially unacceptable?
Original post by Lewroll
I think you are the first girl to say that on this thread 
Why do you like them?
Why do you like them? I just consider them as appreciative
Original post by imperial maniac
What exactly do you mean by "harassment?" I mean tbh, some girls would see casual flirting as "harassment" when it's clearly not doing any harm.
Moron. (YAY! Let's have a flame war
or not)
Moron. (YAY! Let's have a flame war
or not)
'feeling of intense annoyance caused by being tormented'
Thus, if any girls do actually see normal light flirting as harassment, they are idiots.
Original post by screenager2004
It's not a compliment.
What is defined as a compliment depends on the person receiving it. I might say "ugh facial tattoos are disgusting" but someone with a facial tattoo might take that as a compliment because it was their aim to be seen as freaky and non-conformist. Compliments express respect for people, shouting at strangers is not respectful, whatever the words out of your mouth are.
You can't shout and scream at 14 year old girls walking to school in their school uniform (this has happened to me quite a lot between the ages of 13-17 because of the area I lived in) and claim that was some kind of compliment. It's quite obviously uninvited and publicly humiliating.
This has nothing to do with staring at someone, it's about shouting at them. Minors don't have criminal responsibility anyway, but say they were 18, staring isn't insulting someone, it's your own private thoughts in your head. Shouting something at them isn't private - it's public. Can you see the difference?
Again, all these things are private - if you feel disgusted by something that's not against the law.
A muslim feeling disgusted by scantily-clad women is his own private thoughts, if he shouts abuse at them its a public insult.
A racist feeling disgusted by coloured people is his own private thoughts, if he shouts racist abuse in the street it's an insult.
A vegan feeling sick at meat eaters is his own private thought, if he shouts slurs at people in the street it's an insult.
Can you see the difference?
Again - there's nothing illegal about being privately offended by something in your own head. But shouting at them in the street is.
What is defined as a compliment depends on the person receiving it. I might say "ugh facial tattoos are disgusting" but someone with a facial tattoo might take that as a compliment because it was their aim to be seen as freaky and non-conformist. Compliments express respect for people, shouting at strangers is not respectful, whatever the words out of your mouth are.
You can't shout and scream at 14 year old girls walking to school in their school uniform (this has happened to me quite a lot between the ages of 13-17 because of the area I lived in) and claim that was some kind of compliment. It's quite obviously uninvited and publicly humiliating.
This has nothing to do with staring at someone, it's about shouting at them. Minors don't have criminal responsibility anyway, but say they were 18, staring isn't insulting someone, it's your own private thoughts in your head. Shouting something at them isn't private - it's public. Can you see the difference?
Again, all these things are private - if you feel disgusted by something that's not against the law.
A muslim feeling disgusted by scantily-clad women is his own private thoughts, if he shouts abuse at them its a public insult.
A racist feeling disgusted by coloured people is his own private thoughts, if he shouts racist abuse in the street it's an insult.
A vegan feeling sick at meat eaters is his own private thought, if he shouts slurs at people in the street it's an insult.
Can you see the difference?
Again - there's nothing illegal about being privately offended by something in your own head. But shouting at them in the street is.
You raise some interesting points. I do agree that the compliment is down to the person and 99% of attention is unwanted. However, I still think that certain groups will jump onto this social change bandwagon claiming to be offended regardless of private thought or public insult, that was the main point i was trying to get across.
Women do dress provocatively. Perhaps they don't conciously dress this way to bring this harassment on themselves, but women's clothes are designed to show off what men like to see. So what can men do?
Instead these women want to launch an attack on men. Why can't you women understand that these clothes that you wear are designed to appeal to men's sexual desires? It isn't hard to understand. Your high-heeled shows shoes show off your ankles. Your backless dress really does excite the men. When you wear skimpy dresses or tight joggers you are showing off parts of your body, the contours, which excite men. The problem is not you women wearing this stuff, the problem is that you attack men because you do not understand that what you wear is designed to exicte men.
Let's turn this around.
Imagine if men went around wearing nothing but a tight top and jeans showing off their "best assets". I know for sure most of you women would be excited. You might not wolf-whistle or groan at him. But then women do do this when they are on nights-out with the girls. They are worse than men once they start on the alcohol. For all a man does when he gets excited, then there is nothing worse than a group of women after a bit of flesh. It's almost frightening and I've seen it first-hand.
You women have to learn that the clothes you like to wear are designed to appeal, to excite and provoke. You may think that you should have the freedom to wear what you want. But the issue is not one of freedom here. It has got nothing to do with having the right to wear what you want. This has to do with understanding the meaning behind fashion and clothing and why women like to wear outfits which reveal what men like to see. It also has to do with understanding why men get visually excited in this way.
This attack on men is just unfair. Your freedom is to wear what you want. It is, afterall, the feminine expression of your sexuality, of your power as a woman. Women like to show off their feminine form, for they feel more feminine and more of a woman by doing so. You often here women don't feel womanly when they wear no make-up. You hear that women feel less feminine when they don't dress up. Many a woman won't go to the shops without putting make-up on. Just look at women's adverts; all telling women that they are goddesses. You can't find an advert for women's shampoo without noticing all the sexual undertones. You'd think that dying one's hair be quite a mundane experience. For women, it is not. It is a spiritual-sexual (or sensual) experience.
Men also have a freedom just like you women have. You are attacking that freedom. Man is visual. He is easily and sexually excitable. This is his natural-ness. Why attack it? Why go vigilante against him because he is naturally dispositioned this way?
Instead these women want to launch an attack on men. Why can't you women understand that these clothes that you wear are designed to appeal to men's sexual desires? It isn't hard to understand. Your high-heeled shows shoes show off your ankles. Your backless dress really does excite the men. When you wear skimpy dresses or tight joggers you are showing off parts of your body, the contours, which excite men. The problem is not you women wearing this stuff, the problem is that you attack men because you do not understand that what you wear is designed to exicte men.
Let's turn this around.
Imagine if men went around wearing nothing but a tight top and jeans showing off their "best assets". I know for sure most of you women would be excited. You might not wolf-whistle or groan at him. But then women do do this when they are on nights-out with the girls. They are worse than men once they start on the alcohol. For all a man does when he gets excited, then there is nothing worse than a group of women after a bit of flesh. It's almost frightening and I've seen it first-hand.
You women have to learn that the clothes you like to wear are designed to appeal, to excite and provoke. You may think that you should have the freedom to wear what you want. But the issue is not one of freedom here. It has got nothing to do with having the right to wear what you want. This has to do with understanding the meaning behind fashion and clothing and why women like to wear outfits which reveal what men like to see. It also has to do with understanding why men get visually excited in this way.
This attack on men is just unfair. Your freedom is to wear what you want. It is, afterall, the feminine expression of your sexuality, of your power as a woman. Women like to show off their feminine form, for they feel more feminine and more of a woman by doing so. You often here women don't feel womanly when they wear no make-up. You hear that women feel less feminine when they don't dress up. Many a woman won't go to the shops without putting make-up on. Just look at women's adverts; all telling women that they are goddesses. You can't find an advert for women's shampoo without noticing all the sexual undertones. You'd think that dying one's hair be quite a mundane experience. For women, it is not. It is a spiritual-sexual (or sensual) experience.
Men also have a freedom just like you women have. You are attacking that freedom. Man is visual. He is easily and sexually excitable. This is his natural-ness. Why attack it? Why go vigilante against him because he is naturally dispositioned this way?
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Martyn*
Men also have a freedom just like you women have. You are attacking that freedom. Man is visual. He is easily and sexually excitable. This is his natural-ness. Why attack it? Why go vigilante against him because he is naturally dispositioned this way?
Men also have a freedom just like you women have. You are attacking that freedom. Man is visual. He is easily and sexually excitable. This is his natural-ness. Why attack it? Why go vigilante against him because he is naturally dispositioned this way?
Okay, let's really turn it around.
For every behaviour you are describing as "natural to men" imagine it is applied to you by a guy a foot taller than you.
You are not gay. You are not attracted to this man. If this man became threatening there is every chance you would not be able to defend yourself effectively.
Complaining that this is unfair and makes you feel uncomfortable brings a chorus of protest that this guy is just behaving perfectly naturally. The message you get is that if the situation turns bad it better be in public because unless they see it go REALLY bad, no-one is really going to defend you against this guy. If it happens in private, well, who can prove you didn't ask for it and change your mind later? And you are told that your clothes -- whatever it is you are wearing -- are deliberately picked to provoke this guy, and make him hit on you. After all, you wear trousers, don't you? Aren't those deliberately designed to let him know you have a groin?
Now, imagine it's not just one guy. There's lots of them, all bigger than you. It's rare you go through a week without seeing one. You certainly can't go for a night out without someone yelling "NICE DICK!" from across the street. Sometimes they grab their own groins and make appreciative gestures. Once or twice, maybe, one of them has grabbed at your groin and fondled it -- in a crowd perhaps, so you couldn't be entirely certain who it was.
Again, you're not attracted to any of these guys. You're pretty sure a lot of them are harmless, but you don't know which. Some of them might even be friendly, and not realising the attention bugs you, but again, you don't know which.
Are you feeling threatened yet? Pissed off?
If you wouldn't like an attention applied to you by a guy a foot taller and much stronger than you, don't apply it to a woman.
Original post by foreveranon
Okay, let's really turn it around.
For every behaviour you are describing as "natural to men" imagine it is applied to you by a guy a foot taller than you.
You are not gay. You are not attracted to this man. If this man became threatening there is every chance you would not be able to defend yourself effectively.
Complaining that this is unfair and makes you feel uncomfortable brings a chorus of protest that this guy is just behaving perfectly naturally. The message you get is that if the situation turns bad it better be in public because unless they see it go REALLY bad, no-one is really going to defend you against this guy. If it happens in private, well, who can prove you didn't ask for it and change your mind later? And you are told that your clothes -- whatever it is you are wearing -- are deliberately picked to provoke this guy, and make him hit on you. After all, you wear trousers, don't you? Aren't those deliberately designed to let him know you have a groin?
Now, imagine it's not just one guy. There's lots of them, all bigger than you. It's rare you go through a week without seeing one. You certainly can't go for a night out without someone yelling "NICE DICK!" from across the street. Sometimes they grab their own groins and make appreciative gestures. Once or twice, maybe, one of them has grabbed at your groin and fondled it -- in a crowd perhaps, so you couldn't be entirely certain who it was.
Again, you're not attracted to any of these guys. You're pretty sure a lot of them are harmless, but you don't know which. Some of them might even be friendly, and not realising the attention bugs you, but again, you don't know which.
Are you feeling threatened yet? Pissed off?
If you wouldn't like an attention applied to you by a guy a foot taller and much stronger than you, don't apply it to a woman.
For every behaviour you are describing as "natural to men" imagine it is applied to you by a guy a foot taller than you.
You are not gay. You are not attracted to this man. If this man became threatening there is every chance you would not be able to defend yourself effectively.
Complaining that this is unfair and makes you feel uncomfortable brings a chorus of protest that this guy is just behaving perfectly naturally. The message you get is that if the situation turns bad it better be in public because unless they see it go REALLY bad, no-one is really going to defend you against this guy. If it happens in private, well, who can prove you didn't ask for it and change your mind later? And you are told that your clothes -- whatever it is you are wearing -- are deliberately picked to provoke this guy, and make him hit on you. After all, you wear trousers, don't you? Aren't those deliberately designed to let him know you have a groin?
Now, imagine it's not just one guy. There's lots of them, all bigger than you. It's rare you go through a week without seeing one. You certainly can't go for a night out without someone yelling "NICE DICK!" from across the street. Sometimes they grab their own groins and make appreciative gestures. Once or twice, maybe, one of them has grabbed at your groin and fondled it -- in a crowd perhaps, so you couldn't be entirely certain who it was.
Again, you're not attracted to any of these guys. You're pretty sure a lot of them are harmless, but you don't know which. Some of them might even be friendly, and not realising the attention bugs you, but again, you don't know which.
Are you feeling threatened yet? Pissed off?
If you wouldn't like an attention applied to you by a guy a foot taller and much stronger than you, don't apply it to a woman.
If you don't know the difference between physical threats (that will do damage to your appearance or threaten your life) and just a bit of fun, such as someone shouting "Nice Dick!" then I'm going to have to question all your arguments.
Original post by Martyn*
If you don't know the difference between physical threats (that will do damage to your appearance or threaten your life) and just a bit of fun, such as someone shouting "Nice Dick!" then I'm going to have to question all your arguments.
It would be nice to live in a world where people never escalated from yelling (because it's just a bit of fun, and dressed like that she was asking for it, and yelling never hurt anyone) to a quick fondle (because it's just a bit of fun, and dressed like that she was asking for it, and it's hardly going to scar her for life) to worse (because it's just a bit of fun, and dressed like that she was asking for it, and she probably wanted it anyway, a girl like that). Unfortunately, we don't live in that world, and once you start using the argument "If she didn't want it she wouldn't dress like that" it's very hard to stop. It's the same argument frequently use in rape and sexual assault cases, and the same thinking.
Note, I am not saying that every guy who yells something is going to sexually assault someone. I am saying that all I, the woman, know when you yell is that you already have in your brain the argument "if she didn't want it, she wouldn't dress like that" and frankly, that's not a guy I want to be near.
Besides, if you didn't want me to think like that, you wouldn't yell like that, right? I mean, CLEARLY you're seeking attention. It's not MY fault that the attention you get is women treating you like a potential hazard.
Only in this day and age would a group for a thing such as this be deemed the rational and right thing to do. I am not a woman, and as such I have not been the direct recipient of this type of behaviour but I have witnessed it, but is this group really neccessary? Yes, some men are horny and animalistic in their showing of affection and intentions towards an attractive women, but why on earth does it need a 'group to try and stop this sort of behaviour'? What does that involve and how will it be done? Are you saying that you are shortly going to be campaigning for the prosecution of anyone shouting to a girl 'nice arse!'? What if it is a man on the receiving end of this 'harassment'? Oh but no one mentions that. What about the men who get approached by a tipsy bunch of girls on a hen night saying 'ohhhh get your kit off love' or 'oohhh let me feel your arse'. I've had that before, and do you know what I do? I laugh, give some witty remark back and then go about my day. I don't feel morally degraded or think that I am experiencing the full brunt of female attitudes towards men.
I am all for people being free from of discrimination, but the line between discrimination and an everyday comment here is being severely blurred. I find it frankly pathetic that people view this as anything other than men being idiots and their inability to brush it off as pure idiocy just demonstrates to me that people these days are so feeble that they can not logically think these things through but instead have to turn to some support group, campaign or some new movement under a cleverly crafted and unite-for-the-cause name. We live on a huge planet, composed of strange societies and inhabited by even stranger individuals. The reality of it is that when people learn to steel themselves and think about things rationally only then will you be free from feeling 'harassed' by a bunch of builders making a passing comment, in the meantime people campaign all the while for things that do nothing but reduce our right to free speech day by day.
I am all for people being free from of discrimination, but the line between discrimination and an everyday comment here is being severely blurred. I find it frankly pathetic that people view this as anything other than men being idiots and their inability to brush it off as pure idiocy just demonstrates to me that people these days are so feeble that they can not logically think these things through but instead have to turn to some support group, campaign or some new movement under a cleverly crafted and unite-for-the-cause name. We live on a huge planet, composed of strange societies and inhabited by even stranger individuals. The reality of it is that when people learn to steel themselves and think about things rationally only then will you be free from feeling 'harassed' by a bunch of builders making a passing comment, in the meantime people campaign all the while for things that do nothing but reduce our right to free speech day by day.
Original post by foreveranon
It would be nice to live in a world where people never escalated from yelling (because it's just a bit of fun, and dressed like that she was asking for it, and yelling never hurt anyone) to a quick fondle (because it's just a bit of fun, and dressed like that she was asking for it, and it's hardly going to scar her for life) to worse (because it's just a bit of fun, and dressed like that she was asking for it, and she probably wanted it anyway, a girl like that). Unfortunately, we don't live in that world, and once you start using the argument "If she didn't want it she wouldn't dress like that" it's very hard to stop. It's the same argument frequently use in rape and sexual assault cases, and the same thinking.
Note, I am not saying that every guy who yells something is going to sexually assault someone.I am saying that all I, the woman, know when you yell is that you already have in your brain the argument "if she didn't want it, she wouldn't dress like that" and frankly, that's not a guy I want to be near.
Besides, if you didn't want me to think like that, you wouldn't yell like that, right? I mean, CLEARLY you're seeking attention. It's not MY fault that the attention you get is women treating you like a potential hazard.
Note, I am not saying that every guy who yells something is going to sexually assault someone.I am saying that all I, the woman, know when you yell is that you already have in your brain the argument "if she didn't want it, she wouldn't dress like that" and frankly, that's not a guy I want to be near.
Besides, if you didn't want me to think like that, you wouldn't yell like that, right? I mean, CLEARLY you're seeking attention. It's not MY fault that the attention you get is women treating you like a potential hazard.
I never used that argument, so I think that you are protesting a little too much.
Original post by Martyn*
I never used that argument, so I think that you are protesting a little too much.
Women do dress provocatively. Perhaps they don't conciously dress this way to bring this harassment on themselves, but women's clothes are designed to show off what men like to see. So what can men do?
Instead these women want to launch an attack on men. Why can't you women understand that these clothes that you wear are designed to appeal to men's sexual desires? It isn't hard to understand. Your high-heeled shows shoes show off your ankles. Your backless dress really does excite the men. When you wear skimpy dresses or tight joggers you are showing off parts of your body, the contours, which excite men. The problem is not you women wearing this stuff, the problem is that you attack men because you do not understand that what you wear is designed to exicte men.
Let's turn this around.
Imagine if men went around wearing nothing but a tight top and jeans showing off their "best assets". I know for sure most of you women would be excited. You might not wolf-whistle or groan at him. But then women do do this when they are on nights-out with the girls. They are worse than men once they start on the alcohol. For all a man does when he gets excited, then there is nothing worse than a group of women after a bit of flesh. It's almost frightening and I've seen it first-hand.
women have to learn that the clothes you like to wear are designed to appeal, to excite and provoke. You may think that you should have the freedom to wear what you want. But the issue is not one of freedom here. It has got nothing to do with having the right to wear what you want. This has to do with understanding the meaning behind fashion and clothing and why women like to wear outfits which reveal what men like to see. It also has to do with understanding why men get visually excited in this way.
Would you like to explain how your argument doesn't sum up to "it's women's fault for dressing that way"?
Original post by 21stcenturyphantom
Only in this day and age would a group for a thing such as this be deemed the rational and right thing to do. I am not a woman, and as such I have not been the direct recipient of this type of behaviour but I have witnessed it, but is this group really neccessary? Yes, some men are horny and animalistic in their showing of affection and intentions towards an attractive women, but why on earth does it need a 'group to try and stop this sort of behaviour'? What does that involve and how will it be done? Are you saying that you are shortly going to be campaigning for the prosecution of anyone shouting to a girl 'nice arse!'? What if it is a man on the receiving end of this 'harassment'? Oh but no one mentions that. What about the men who get approached by a tipsy bunch of girls on a hen night saying 'ohhhh get your kit off love' or 'oohhh let me feel your arse'. I've had that before, and do you know what I do? I laugh, give some witty remark back and then go about my day. I don't feel morally degraded or think that I am experiencing the full brunt of female attitudes towards men.
I am all for people being free from of discrimination, but the line between discrimination and an everyday comment here is being severely blurred. I find it frankly pathetic that people view this as anything other than men being idiots and their inability to brush it off as pure idiocy just demonstrates to me that people these days are so feeble that they can not logically think these things through but instead have to turn to some support group, campaign or some new movement under a cleverly crafted and unite-for-the-cause name. We live on a huge planet, composed of strange societies and inhabited by even stranger individuals. The reality of it is that when people learn to steel themselves and think about things rationally only then will you be free from feeling 'harassed' by a bunch of builders making a passing comment, in the meantime people campaign all the while for things that do nothing but reduce our right to free speech day by day.
I am all for people being free from of discrimination, but the line between discrimination and an everyday comment here is being severely blurred. I find it frankly pathetic that people view this as anything other than men being idiots and their inability to brush it off as pure idiocy just demonstrates to me that people these days are so feeble that they can not logically think these things through but instead have to turn to some support group, campaign or some new movement under a cleverly crafted and unite-for-the-cause name. We live on a huge planet, composed of strange societies and inhabited by even stranger individuals. The reality of it is that when people learn to steel themselves and think about things rationally only then will you be free from feeling 'harassed' by a bunch of builders making a passing comment, in the meantime people campaign all the while for things that do nothing but reduce our right to free speech day by day.
Well said. As I said in my previous posts, there are more important things in the world to worry about than some men in a van shouting "How's it going darling"? These women should just grow a pair, ignore the men who are "harassing" them and move on with their lives. There are more serious global issues to be dealt with than for a group of mostly illogical feminists to waste our time on such trivial matters (in comparison to global dilemmas).
And it's not as if men don't experience these things as well. But do we cry about it and start wasting our time and energy creating a group about it? No, we just deal with it and move on with our lives. A lot of women could learn from this.
Original post by Ulo
There is a difference between suggestive looks and harassment, I'm sure most reasonable people can recognise that.
Let me 'try' to give a good reason why this is a bad idea.
Feminism is bad for your kind, why? You're at risk of alienating the vast majority of men who would not actively grope you, harass you, stalk you but instead just look and maybe give a side comment that isn't boring but its nowhere near provocative in the extreme.
You realise that feminists are too anal for their own good? You wont be punishing any of the guys who harass you, you'll simply see the soft targets get punished and the other men get worse because men like that enjoy the rush of annoying you.
it will be open season and it will get worse. Trust me sweetie, I know my own sex better than you.
Want to know why I am right? Take a look around you.
Bars, clubs, supermarkets, day-to-day walkings, women are not treated like theyr were before. You get men who simply cant be bothered holding doors open, even for old women for fear of being given a disapproving look, I have had plenty of them and you know what? I only keep a door open for 3 seconds if I went through it,
I wont go out of my way to help women because it either ends up with a dirty look, they dont appreciate it or simply they dont see the need to help me out. If it is an older lady I will help them out as they seem to understand feminism is a load of horse **** and they appreciate a mans help, young women (teens-late 40s) very rarely see this.
Also the physical side of things, women are seen as fair game these days, not just by scum but by a lot of ordinary guys who figured women are just weaker versions of men, but more annoying. Why have we got to this point? Lack of manners for one but when a mum lets his boys out to play, sends him to school and then see's him off to work, he see's the girls and women get favoured a lot of the time simply because they are female. He doesn't get taught properly about this so he figures..."why?"
Now you might think I am some pig headed asswipe who wants to stir things up but I assure you, if a woman needs help, I'll give her my help. I'm always a step ahead when assessing a girls vulnerability during the night,especially when loads of drunk men are around.
Women by the roadside too, or having trouble moving stuff, its what men are for but remember, you get what you put in so becareful about what you preach.
Original post by HARRY PUTAH
Let me 'try' to give a good reason why this is a bad idea.
Feminism is bad for your kind, why? You're at risk of alienating the vast majority of men who would not actively grope you, harass you, stalk you but instead just look and maybe give a side comment that isn't boring but its nowhere near provocative in the extreme.
Feminism is bad for your kind, why? You're at risk of alienating the vast majority of men who would not actively grope you, harass you, stalk you but instead just look and maybe give a side comment that isn't boring but its nowhere near provocative in the extreme.
Had you actually read the article you would have seen that it encourage both men and women to stand up to this behaviour, how does that alienate men who do not partake it in?
You realise that feminists are too anal for their own good? You wont be punishing any of the guys who harass you, you'll simply see the soft targets get punished and the other men get worse because men like that enjoy the rush of annoying you.
So asking people to come together and name and shame the people who do it won't punish the people who do it?
it will be open season and it will get worse. Trust me sweetie, I know my own sex better than you.
Want to know why I am right? Take a look around you.
Bars, clubs, supermarkets, day-to-day walkings, women are not treated like theyr were before. You get men who simply cant be bothered holding doors open, even for old women for fear of being given a disapproving look, I have had plenty of them and you know what? I only keep a door open for 3 seconds if I went through it,
Want to know why I am right? Take a look around you.
Bars, clubs, supermarkets, day-to-day walkings, women are not treated like theyr were before. You get men who simply cant be bothered holding doors open, even for old women for fear of being given a disapproving look, I have had plenty of them and you know what? I only keep a door open for 3 seconds if I went through it,
Who cares if some men don't go out of their way to hold the door open for women? I'm a female and I hold the door open behind for both men and women, it's common courtesy and I say thanks if someone does it for me.
I wont go out of my way to help women because it either ends up with a dirty look, they dont appreciate it or simply they dont see the need to help me out. If it is an older lady I will help them out as they seem to understand feminism is a load of horse **** and they appreciate a mans help, young women (teens-late 40s) very rarely see this.
Help them out it what sense?
Also the physical side of things, women are seen as fair game these days, not just by scum but by a lot of ordinary guys who figured women are just weaker versions of men, but more annoying. Why have we got to this point? Lack of manners for one but when a mum lets his boys out to play, sends him to school and then see's him off to work, he see's the girls and women get favoured a lot of the time simply because they are female. He doesn't get taught properly about this so he figures..."why?"
Get favoured how? What doesn't the child get taught properly?
Now you might think I am some pig headed asswipe who wants to stir things up but I assure you, if a woman needs help, I'll give her my help. I'm always a step ahead when assessing a girls vulnerability during the night,especially when loads of drunk men are around.
Women by the roadside too, or having trouble moving stuff, its what men are for but remember, you get what you put in so becareful about what you preach.
Women by the roadside too, or having trouble moving stuff, its what men are for but remember, you get what you put in so becareful about what you preach.
What has this got to do with anything? It's what men are for? You think you were made to help any woman with anything? Would you consider doing this for your fellow man? How is this related to a campaign to make it socially unacceptable to harass women?
'Be careful what you preach'? She said
There is a difference between suggestive looks and harassment, I'm sure most reasonable people can recognise that.
Original post by foreveranon
Has anyone actually suggested punishment? The worst I suggested was "don't do it, suggest to your friends it's not a nice thing to do, step in if someone looks upset". Just.. decent human behaviour. Show your attraction by talking to people.
And if I had suggested punishment, I'm unsure why you feel children should get the same punishment as adults when this doesn't apply to anything else. Two teenagers scrapping in a playground get a suspension, two adults get arrested. A bullying kid gets a stern talk from the teacher, an adult loses their job. We expect more from adults than kids. Because.. they're kids. Developing social skills and all.
And if I had suggested punishment, I'm unsure why you feel children should get the same punishment as adults when this doesn't apply to anything else. Two teenagers scrapping in a playground get a suspension, two adults get arrested. A bullying kid gets a stern talk from the teacher, an adult loses their job. We expect more from adults than kids. Because.. they're kids. Developing social skills and all.
I talked about punishments as some other girls mentioned earlier that men should face punishments for it. So I assumed the group was going to try and make the government punish the "harassment". But if this isn't the case, what the heck is the point of this movement then?! Why are you wasting your time and our time on something that won't make that much of a difference anyway?
It's funny how the Anti-harassment group only focus on the harassment of women. Why have they ignored the harassment of men by women? Why are women made out in this modern feminist society to be the worst victims? This is why I hate modern feminism in general these days. They completely focus on women problems and make out they're the worst victims but ignore men's problem.
So the whole point of this movement is to make it more socially unacceptable to "harass" women? Apparently as someone has just said, they'll name and shame anyone that "harasses" women. Have you read some of my earlier posts? You and the anti-harassment group must be extremely naive to think everyone on the planet gives a damn about a group of men shouting "How's it going love?" There's more important things to worry about. And if you think for one second that everyone in the UK is actually going to tell their mates and suggest to them not to "harass" women, then you need help. Everyone has got more important things to do and talk about than women being "harassed". Not everybody is going to care or give a damn about your "movement." Seriously, who has the time and energy to "name and shame" the harassers? In a fantasy world, everyone would do this. But not in the real world. Welcome to reality.
And therefore, this "movement" is a waste of time. In the world, with the government, with the police, there's no morality. There's only law. Something is either legal or illegal. Anything in between just has to be dealt with. The "movement" ain't gonna make hollering/shouting at women illegal. You can't make our freedom of speech illegal. So men can't be punished for hollering. So why bother wasting your time over it? Pretending the "movement" is gonna make it more socially unacceptable (which isn't going to happen) isn't going to make the problem go away. So what will you women do then? Go to your anti-harassment website and bitch and moan about it? Or will you just ignore the men and get on with your life?
Let's say I was walking down the street during the day and there was a group of women standing outside a shop. And as I was walking past them, one of them shouted at me "Nice arse boi", the other girls started giggling together loudly and they all kept shouting at me. And there were lots of people around me, including women. What would the people expect me to do? Would they expect me to start getting upset about it and feel "harassed"? Would they, most likely, ignore the situation because they expect me to be a man, ignore it and move on with my life? Would a WOMAN intervene for me and try and help me out because I was getting "harassed?" Or would she expect me to be a MAN and dealt with it? That's right. You know what would most likely happen. Everyone will ignore it and carry with what they were doing. Because they'll expect me to DEAL with it. A lot of you women should learn to do the same.
If it turns to groping or physical violence, obviously the police should get involved. But the anti-harassment group isn't needed for men shouting or whatever. You women should just deal with it.
(edited 13 years ago)
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