Women martial artist vs Men
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As for boxing vs other martial arts, i do a bit of sparring at my local club so I am a bit biased. But to be honest there are not many people that can compete against a good boxer. A boxers punching speed is much faster than a kick.
Who would win in a fight between Muhammad Ali and Bruce Lee?
While preparing for his title defence against Joe Bugner in Malaysia in 1975, Muhammad Ali announced, "I will prove to the world that I am not only the greatest boxer of all time, I am the greatest martial artist." Then, before treating the kickboxer Davis Miller to a round of sparring, he declared, "You must be a fool to get in the ring with me. When I'm through, you gowna think you been whupped by Bruce Lee." Miller reported how "I bent to the right, tossed a jab toward his belt line, straightened, snapped a long, tentative front-kick to his head. I figured it was the first kick he'd ever had thrown at him, but he pulled away as easily as if he'd been dodging feet his entire life." In that brief encounter, Ali allowed Miller to get a few hits in before knocking him senseless with two punches.
Bruce Lee would no doubt fare better than the young Miller did against the Greatest, but the end result would probably be no different. Ali was 6ft 3in tall and weighed 236lb in his prime. Lee was 5ft 7in and just 135lb when he died. If Lee were a boxer he would be a lightweight nine divisions below Ali's heavyweight class. In regular boxing there is a limited degree of movement between the weight divisions.
The first advantage people think of is the martial artist's ability to use kicks as well as punches. In any contest of champions, Muhammad Ali would be allowed to kick too just as Bruce Lee would be allowed to punch but one presumes he would rely on his fists. The second advantage is Lee's dazzling speed though frames were cut from his fight scenes to make him appear even faster. Even so, his kicks could never be as fast as Ali's punches. This is no slight against the martial artist, but simply a reflection of human physiology and the laws of physics.
Even the fastest kicks are slow compared to punches, because they require more build-up and begin from a greater distance from their target. Punches can also be followed up with more of the same, whereas combination kicks are slower, more difficult to execute and usually lose power.
Furthermore, Ali would be used to dodging punches that were much faster than Lee's kicks. So to bring his kicks to bear, Lee would need to keep Ali at a distance. Assuming that the two are fighting in a ring of limited size, Lee would probably not be able to keep out of the boxer's way for long enough. Ali himself was extremely fast for a heavyweight, but even he couldn't avoid dozens of punches from the lumbering George Foreman (realising this, he even made it part of his game plan not to try to during their "Rumble in the Jungle"). Similarly, no matter how fast Lee might be, he could not realistically be expected to dodge every blow from Ali.
Now there's an arena in which the different fighting styles can be directly compared: the Ultimate Fighting Championship. Almost anything goes in mixed martial arts, or "cage fighting", except for eye-gouging and blows to the groin. Yet, contrary to the public's expectation when the sport began, kung fu masters have fared notably badly: even worse than pure boxers. The early years were dominated by grapplers, and even today fighters stand little chance unless they have excellent wrestling skills, as so many matches are settled on the ground, either with a submission hold or with one protagonist pinned down and pummelled unconscious.
The most successful mixed martial artist of recent times is Japan's Kazushi Sakuraba. Sakuraba came from professional (that is to say, staged) wrestling, but after his promoters went bust he talked his way into the Ultimate Fighting Championship's heavyweights-only Ultimate Japan tournament in 1997. He pretended that he weighed 203lb in order to qualify and, although he was really only 183lb, he defeated a 243lb ju-jitsu champion to score the first of several victories against bigger, stronger men. One of his smaller victims was the renowned Royce Gracie, who at 180lb himself once beat a 275lb heavyweight wrestler. Sakuraba's career and those of other champions in Ultimate Fighting appear to demonstrate that grappling skills are far more effective than other martial arts or boxing disciplines in overcoming a size disadvantage. The UFC has destroyed the mystique of martial arts by showing which techniques actually work. Kung fu is not one of them.
Bruce Lee had great respect for the skills of wrestlers, but he had different priorities and recognised that their techniques were not as photogenic as the looping kicks and acrobatics that movie-goers wanted to see. He realised that his moves were only for the camera, and that the flurries of hand trapping that he learned from wing chun kung fu would be of little use in a real fight. Unlike Ali, Lee never boasted that he could take on the world. He never fought in competitive tournaments either. To then say that Lee was the best martial arts fighter in the world let alone the best fighter per se would be like saying that the Harlem Globetrotters, basketball's answer to the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment), are the world's best basketball team.
The more valid question is not whether Bruce Lee could beat Muhammad Ali, but how he would fare against Rocky Balboa...
Conclusion, boxing and wrestling beats all............apart from krav maga
Who would win in a fight between Muhammad Ali and Bruce Lee?
While preparing for his title defence against Joe Bugner in Malaysia in 1975, Muhammad Ali announced, "I will prove to the world that I am not only the greatest boxer of all time, I am the greatest martial artist." Then, before treating the kickboxer Davis Miller to a round of sparring, he declared, "You must be a fool to get in the ring with me. When I'm through, you gowna think you been whupped by Bruce Lee." Miller reported how "I bent to the right, tossed a jab toward his belt line, straightened, snapped a long, tentative front-kick to his head. I figured it was the first kick he'd ever had thrown at him, but he pulled away as easily as if he'd been dodging feet his entire life." In that brief encounter, Ali allowed Miller to get a few hits in before knocking him senseless with two punches.
Bruce Lee would no doubt fare better than the young Miller did against the Greatest, but the end result would probably be no different. Ali was 6ft 3in tall and weighed 236lb in his prime. Lee was 5ft 7in and just 135lb when he died. If Lee were a boxer he would be a lightweight nine divisions below Ali's heavyweight class. In regular boxing there is a limited degree of movement between the weight divisions.
The first advantage people think of is the martial artist's ability to use kicks as well as punches. In any contest of champions, Muhammad Ali would be allowed to kick too just as Bruce Lee would be allowed to punch but one presumes he would rely on his fists. The second advantage is Lee's dazzling speed though frames were cut from his fight scenes to make him appear even faster. Even so, his kicks could never be as fast as Ali's punches. This is no slight against the martial artist, but simply a reflection of human physiology and the laws of physics.
Even the fastest kicks are slow compared to punches, because they require more build-up and begin from a greater distance from their target. Punches can also be followed up with more of the same, whereas combination kicks are slower, more difficult to execute and usually lose power.
Furthermore, Ali would be used to dodging punches that were much faster than Lee's kicks. So to bring his kicks to bear, Lee would need to keep Ali at a distance. Assuming that the two are fighting in a ring of limited size, Lee would probably not be able to keep out of the boxer's way for long enough. Ali himself was extremely fast for a heavyweight, but even he couldn't avoid dozens of punches from the lumbering George Foreman (realising this, he even made it part of his game plan not to try to during their "Rumble in the Jungle"). Similarly, no matter how fast Lee might be, he could not realistically be expected to dodge every blow from Ali.
Now there's an arena in which the different fighting styles can be directly compared: the Ultimate Fighting Championship. Almost anything goes in mixed martial arts, or "cage fighting", except for eye-gouging and blows to the groin. Yet, contrary to the public's expectation when the sport began, kung fu masters have fared notably badly: even worse than pure boxers. The early years were dominated by grapplers, and even today fighters stand little chance unless they have excellent wrestling skills, as so many matches are settled on the ground, either with a submission hold or with one protagonist pinned down and pummelled unconscious.
The most successful mixed martial artist of recent times is Japan's Kazushi Sakuraba. Sakuraba came from professional (that is to say, staged) wrestling, but after his promoters went bust he talked his way into the Ultimate Fighting Championship's heavyweights-only Ultimate Japan tournament in 1997. He pretended that he weighed 203lb in order to qualify and, although he was really only 183lb, he defeated a 243lb ju-jitsu champion to score the first of several victories against bigger, stronger men. One of his smaller victims was the renowned Royce Gracie, who at 180lb himself once beat a 275lb heavyweight wrestler. Sakuraba's career and those of other champions in Ultimate Fighting appear to demonstrate that grappling skills are far more effective than other martial arts or boxing disciplines in overcoming a size disadvantage. The UFC has destroyed the mystique of martial arts by showing which techniques actually work. Kung fu is not one of them.
Bruce Lee had great respect for the skills of wrestlers, but he had different priorities and recognised that their techniques were not as photogenic as the looping kicks and acrobatics that movie-goers wanted to see. He realised that his moves were only for the camera, and that the flurries of hand trapping that he learned from wing chun kung fu would be of little use in a real fight. Unlike Ali, Lee never boasted that he could take on the world. He never fought in competitive tournaments either. To then say that Lee was the best martial arts fighter in the world let alone the best fighter per se would be like saying that the Harlem Globetrotters, basketball's answer to the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment), are the world's best basketball team.
The more valid question is not whether Bruce Lee could beat Muhammad Ali, but how he would fare against Rocky Balboa...
Conclusion, boxing and wrestling beats all............apart from krav maga
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Z-Ninja
Yu all have no idea about martial arts. Its not the style its the practitioner Thread closed.
People stopped saying this twenty years ago, please keep up.
Original post by HARRY PUTAH
Big guys aren't oafs, I said they're slow, oafs are stupid. get it right.
Those weren't tactics muppet, have you ever been in a fight that was no holds barred? A neighbour of mine taught me this stuff years ago and he was a boxerand his trainer was a professional boxer for many years who got down and dirty a lot of the time with big guys on the docks at manchester and liverpool.
He is an ex prison warder of many years dealing with guys who tower over him by almost a foot and he is 6' 2". Experience beats your street fighter gameboy days and your martial arts classes, which I did for a fair few years alongside Mark Strange. A decent guy who could kick the **** out of anybody I may add but no way in hell will you face an opponent who will simply stand there and take a full-on kick to the stomach.
You also have very little knowledge about what I said as you would have agreed. You cannot train your neck, solar plexus and balls to take heavy hits, it is impossible.
Those weren't tactics muppet, have you ever been in a fight that was no holds barred? A neighbour of mine taught me this stuff years ago and he was a boxerand his trainer was a professional boxer for many years who got down and dirty a lot of the time with big guys on the docks at manchester and liverpool.
He is an ex prison warder of many years dealing with guys who tower over him by almost a foot and he is 6' 2". Experience beats your street fighter gameboy days and your martial arts classes, which I did for a fair few years alongside Mark Strange. A decent guy who could kick the **** out of anybody I may add but no way in hell will you face an opponent who will simply stand there and take a full-on kick to the stomach.
You also have very little knowledge about what I said as you would have agreed. You cannot train your neck, solar plexus and balls to take heavy hits, it is impossible.
See here's the thing. While I'm sure you learnt 'teh deadly' from your ex-con docker glass-eating friend, if you'd trained in anything half decent you'd know that neck and solar plexus shots aren't as powerful as you make out. They certainly aren't 'pressure points' that flash like an N64 boss.
The balls however I will give you. Getting kicked in the groin ****ing hurts.
Original post by Wozzie
God this thread is annoying.
Getting punched in the face ****ing hurts, your ability to take a punch depends on you and the person doing the punching. If you get hit in the head with enough force or in a manner which causes the brain to bounce inside your skull you will get knocked out, certain things that can make this less likely to happen for instance stronger neck muscles but there is no style of fighting which will make you impervious to the impact of a punch so all of this:
"I know a wrestler who can beat any boxer"
Is just horse ****, complete and utter unadulterated horse ****.
Getting punched in the face ****ing hurts, your ability to take a punch depends on you and the person doing the punching. If you get hit in the head with enough force or in a manner which causes the brain to bounce inside your skull you will get knocked out, certain things that can make this less likely to happen for instance stronger neck muscles but there is no style of fighting which will make you impervious to the impact of a punch so all of this:
"I know a wrestler who can beat any boxer"
Is just horse ****, complete and utter unadulterated horse ****.
It's pretty much impossible to knock someone out when the person you're punching is sitting on top of you.
I mean sure, the boxer MIGHT be able to get in a knockout punch before they get taken down, but the experience of the early UFCs suggests that pure grappling trumps pure striking every time.
Original post by Callum828
People stopped saying this twenty years ago, please keep up.
yu all are dum, think with yur brain. Ive seen some amazing martial artists from different styles.. its not about the style its about how well yu understand and apply the style... i think yu should keep up.
This thread is basically a series of posts in which people make judgments that can never be realistically measured objectively and justify them by prefixing them with "obviously", or some similar method. In the meantime, the original question has been lost in the mass of people trying to show off how much they know about martial arts.
Original post by Z-Ninja
yu all are dum, think with yur brain. Ive seen some amazing martial artists from different styles.. its not about the style its about how well yu understand and apply the style... i think yu should keep up.
Well gee if you have anecdotes then...
Look, twenty years ago they started doing competitions between martial arts. Ya know, to prove which one was superior.
They discovered two things.
Firstly, MAs that train in an alive manner (ie, full contact, with resistance) trounced ones that didn't.
Secondly, pure grappling beats pure striking in an open rules format. That means that a wrestler or a groundfighter will beat a champion boxer because the boxer can't punch from the floor, and because fights invariably end up in the clinch/grappling ranges.
In other words, yes it DOES matter what style you train, massively. Because unless you cross-train in multiple ranges of combat, striking arts get trounced on the ground or in the clinch.
'It's not the style, it's the fighter' is *******s because of this, and also because fighters fall to their level of training. Training method is essentially synonymous with style, and if one fighter trains hard and effectively, and the other doesn't, it's irrelevant what natural skill either of them have.
All martial arts are not equal, is my point.
P.S. I don't wanna be one of those guys that criticises everyone over stupid grammar points but please stop using 'yu' instead of 'you', it looks awful and needlessly detracts from your points.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by Bobifier
This thread is basically a series of posts in which people make judgments that can never be realistically measured objectively and justify them by prefixing them with "obviously", or some similar method. In the meantime, the original question has been lost in the mass of people trying to show off how much they know about martial arts.
I've sparred against women many times. That's hardly empty speculation.
Original post by ForeverIsMyName
Professional, womens MMA fighter would beat any man who has no fight training, with the possible exception of a huge rugby player or something.
But yes, got 140lb fighters will beat anyone of any size without any fight training. Look up UFC 1.
But yes, got 140lb fighters will beat anyone of any size without any fight training. Look up UFC 1.
First of all, just wanna say: you have a GREAT SIG!
where did you get the gif of Pettis' "superkick"?
i tried to find the 'join' button for the tsr mma soc, but i couldnt locate it.
a little help please?
hey...do you know where a person such as myself can watch full ufc/pride/etc matches online.
youtube seems dry these days
Original post by kironkabir
First of all, just wanna say: you have a GREAT SIG!
where did you get the gif of Pettis' "superkick"?
i tried to find the 'join' button for the tsr mma soc, but i couldnt locate it.
a little help please?
hey...do you know where a person such as myself can watch full ufc/pride/etc matches online.
youtube seems dry these days
where did you get the gif of Pettis' "superkick"?
i tried to find the 'join' button for the tsr mma soc, but i couldnt locate it.
a little help please?
hey...do you know where a person such as myself can watch full ufc/pride/etc matches online.
youtube seems dry these days
http://mmavideolinks.to/
http://www.mma-core.com/
Original post by Bobifier
I know a third dan black belt in TKD who I have no doubt good beat up a boxer, even a good boxer. That said, I think you have to be as good as he is before TKD is worth anything to you in reality. There is not really any such thing as a mediocre kick, in as much as that if there is anything wrong with your kicks then your opponent has big chances to mess you up. However, if your kicks are strong, fast and technically correct every time it is no longer such a joke.
Yeah, his kicks are going to hurt the boxer who keeps his guard tight, bobs, weaves and is conditioned through months and years of sparring to take hits to the head
As soon as that kick goes above the waist compromising his balance or he tries a ****ing open palm hit he's down
Original post by Z-Ninja
Yu all have no idea about martial arts. Its not the style its the practitioner Thread closed.
no it isn't, lets see a boxer take on someone who does muay thai, boxer will get beat due to unconditioned legs
Original post by U.S Lecce
Conclusion, boxing and wrestling beats all............apart from krav maga
Conclusion, boxing and wrestling beats all............apart from krav maga
Boxing is my sport of choice, but again, unconditioned legs, knee strikes on them will make you lose your balance
Original post by Callum828
It's pretty much impossible to knock someone out when the person you're punching is sitting on top of you.
I mean sure, the boxer MIGHT be able to get in a knockout punch before they get taken down, but the experience of the early UFCs suggests that pure grappling trumps pure striking every time.
I mean sure, the boxer MIGHT be able to get in a knockout punch before they get taken down, but the experience of the early UFCs suggests that pure grappling trumps pure striking every time.
This too, which is why I said above, a mix of striking, either boxing or muay thai, and grappling, wresting or bjj are best for a complete system
Anyway on topic a women would get knocked the **** out, that Kill Bill stuff is *******s and should stay in the cinema
Original post by Z-Ninja
yu all are dum, think with yur brain.
I am speechless.the boxer will get beat due to unconditioned legs? makes sense. Thats a good reason why a boxer will lose. Well done.
Takiing the fight onto the ground depends on who yur fighting.. a good practicioner will not let a fight get taken to the ground if he/she is not an expert in ground fighting.
Takiing the fight onto the ground depends on who yur fighting.. a good practicioner will not let a fight get taken to the ground if he/she is not an expert in ground fighting.
Original post by HARRY PUTAH
Neck, balls and solar plexus (w.e it is)
-Use elbows and the curve in your head
-your knees
-learn how to lock a persons arms
- learn how to smash a wrist
-learn how to use their own weight against them
-Learn to use your own body weight
-Most importantly, have the mentality to hurt somebody bad, so bad that they will not be out of hospital for more than 5 months.
No matter who you are, you have weaknesses. Big guys are slow, they're a bigger target and they think "rawr me smash!" principles will work 24/7
Women have the luxury of being women, if one was to try and seriously injure me I will do my best to put her down as fast as possible.
-Use elbows and the curve in your head
-your knees
-learn how to lock a persons arms
- learn how to smash a wrist
-learn how to use their own weight against them
-Learn to use your own body weight
-Most importantly, have the mentality to hurt somebody bad, so bad that they will not be out of hospital for more than 5 months.
No matter who you are, you have weaknesses. Big guys are slow, they're a bigger target and they think "rawr me smash!" principles will work 24/7
Women have the luxury of being women, if one was to try and seriously injure me I will do my best to put her down as fast as possible.
Yeah but the women just wouldn't even be able to penetrate.
Original post by Callum828
See here's the thing. While I'm sure you learnt 'teh deadly' from your ex-con docker glass-eating friend, if you'd trained in anything half decent you'd know that neck and solar plexus shots aren't as powerful as you make out. They certainly aren't 'pressure points' that flash like an N64 boss.
The balls however I will give you. Getting kicked in the groin ****ing hurts.
The balls however I will give you. Getting kicked in the groin ****ing hurts.
I'm sorry?
he's a polite old guy these days and he always was. I am like him where if someone wants to start on you in a bar for example you take in your surroundings and the guy in question.
"do I want glass involved?" If by any means I cannot just walk away without being drawn into a fight, I will most likely aim for somewhere which will put him down hard and quickly.
Have you ever swallowed water down the wrong tube? Do that and then have someone grab your throat and squeeze. That is what a neck hit, a proper neck hit will do. Your automatic functions are to spasm. its natural so you cannot fight it.
Solar plexus is a nerve centre, connected to your stomach as well as many other things. You're telling me that hitting this area, granted not right away, will reap no rewards at all?
It makes your lungs plunge upwards, blowing every bit of air out of you and plunges your gut into a "omfg I am gonna puke bad!" kind of state.
Simple mechanics but the best mechanic of all is walking away from a fight if you can.
lolol some serious stereotyping against big guys as lumbering oafs. I think many people are forgetting many men have pretty epic reflexes to stop themselves getting hit in the balls . Instinctively duck back to ball shots and quite successfully to. The only way your hitting that is if you get closer and if you do i'll pummel you with my massive fists. Keep in mind most 'real' fights wouldn't happen in controlled environments like the gym so martial arts adds very little to fighting abiity. I knew a guy who took martial arts lessons for seven years (apparently he was good and 'taking' advanced classes. Don't know enough about martial arts to know what that means). Got into a fight with a rugby lad in a club. Smashed to smithereens he was.
Now if it was a women fighting after seeing what happened to the guy in the club I'd wager my money on the '240lb meat mountain' as the OP put it.
Now if it was a women fighting after seeing what happened to the guy in the club I'd wager my money on the '240lb meat mountain' as the OP put it.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by HARRY PUTAH
I'm sorry?
he's a polite old guy these days and he always was. I am like him where if someone wants to start on you in a bar for example you take in your surroundings and the guy in question.
"do I want glass involved?" If by any means I cannot just walk away without being drawn into a fight, I will most likely aim for somewhere which will put him down hard and quickly.
Have you ever swallowed water down the wrong tube? Do that and then have someone grab your throat and squeeze. That is what a neck hit, a proper neck hit will do. Your automatic functions are to spasm. its natural so you cannot fight it.
Solar plexus is a nerve centre, connected to your stomach as well as many other things. You're telling me that hitting this area, granted not right away, will reap no rewards at all?
It makes your lungs plunge upwards, blowing every bit of air out of you and plunges your gut into a "omfg I am gonna puke bad!" kind of state.
Simple mechanics but the best mechanic of all is walking away from a fight if you can.
he's a polite old guy these days and he always was. I am like him where if someone wants to start on you in a bar for example you take in your surroundings and the guy in question.
"do I want glass involved?" If by any means I cannot just walk away without being drawn into a fight, I will most likely aim for somewhere which will put him down hard and quickly.
Have you ever swallowed water down the wrong tube? Do that and then have someone grab your throat and squeeze. That is what a neck hit, a proper neck hit will do. Your automatic functions are to spasm. its natural so you cannot fight it.
Solar plexus is a nerve centre, connected to your stomach as well as many other things. You're telling me that hitting this area, granted not right away, will reap no rewards at all?
It makes your lungs plunge upwards, blowing every bit of air out of you and plunges your gut into a "omfg I am gonna puke bad!" kind of state.
Simple mechanics but the best mechanic of all is walking away from a fight if you can.
I have been punched in both the neck and the solar plexus before, it happens when you actually train and don't just brag about your prowess on the internet.
Your best bet to take someone out with a punch is either a straight to the nose (makes your eyes water up, hard to see) or a hook to the jaw. That's how knockouts happen. Of course that isn't as cool because they're not 'deadly pressure points', they're just 'punching a guy in the face'
Original post by Callum828
Your best bet to take someone out with a punch is either a straight to the nose (makes your eyes water up, hard to see) or a hook to the jaw. That's how knockouts happen. Of course that isn't as cool because they're not 'deadly pressure points', they're just 'punching a guy in the face'
Your best bet to take someone out with a punch is either a straight to the nose (makes your eyes water up, hard to see) or a hook to the jaw. That's how knockouts happen. Of course that isn't as cool because they're not 'deadly pressure points', they're just 'punching a guy in the face'
while I agree, it does hurt a ****load when you get your wind knocked out of you
Original post by a_t
while I agree, it does hurt a ****load when you get your wind knocked out of you
Yeah, though still nowhere near as much as a Thai roundhouse to the face though...still accidents will happen with padwork. Anyone spouting that crap about groin/solar plexus/whatever "magic place" they have in mind needs to STFU and Box.
Seriously, in Boxing we learn to hit harder and faster and more accurately and these are hardly one shot incapacitors (in most cases..ha...) I fail to understand why some 110lb skinny fat lazy ninja wannabe seems to think it will work for them...
The answer to the thread is the following: The best thing the woman in this situation can do is train well and train thoroughly and hope that if it ever comes down to this situation the cards are stacked in her favour and luck in some form lends a hand. It's sad, but that's life.
Original post by U.S Lecce
Lol chabal isn't a normal large male, he is a god, like zeus and hercules.
AND he's french
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