Job centres tricking claimants out of benefits
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/01/jobcentres-tricking-people-benefit-sanctions
Isn't that such a despicable act? Kicking the helpless when they're on the floor? Then the government goes on about law and order, well if you only give somebody £30 a week, they'd do better in prison, where at least they have a bed, central heating and food on the table every day.
And it's not like the government is giving any of these people a future, such as creating better jobs or freeing up existing ones. Think how many unemployed would suddenly be employed and benefits will go down if the UK kicked out all the Poles?
The new policies at the DWP/Jobcentres are repulsive and sooner or later, someone will pay the price. As someone now dead once said "we maybe poor, but we are many".
Isn't that such a despicable act? Kicking the helpless when they're on the floor? Then the government goes on about law and order, well if you only give somebody £30 a week, they'd do better in prison, where at least they have a bed, central heating and food on the table every day.
And it's not like the government is giving any of these people a future, such as creating better jobs or freeing up existing ones. Think how many unemployed would suddenly be employed and benefits will go down if the UK kicked out all the Poles?
The new policies at the DWP/Jobcentres are repulsive and sooner or later, someone will pay the price. As someone now dead once said "we maybe poor, but we are many".
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Listen to the lefty Guardianistas, all they know about is big state and people on benefits to vote for them.
Sorry, but you fill find that the reorganisation of benefits by the government is entirely fair. Benefits are not designed to provide a comfortable standard of living, they are designed to provide a minimum standard of living.
Actually this isn't the government treating people like ****. It's people treating people like ****. Perhaps you could say it's an unpleasant side-effect of (what I believe to be) a reasonable approach in the circumstances.
In fact this level of cynicism goes far beyond anything you could accuse either Cameron or Osbourne of, and is only really possible with people who are thoroughly degraded by their work, who are unenthusiastic about it, and lead narrow, unfulfilling lives. The unending contact with the unemployed one after another has doubtless desensitised them - which would happen to any one of us in truth if we were in the same position.
You will also find that the majority of Polish people are hard working, and their employers have nothing but good things to say about them. With many of the jobs they are doing - for example vegetable packing in and around Peterborough - your average benefit claimant would rather remain on the dole than do that work.
There will of course be people coming along to say otherwise, but why is it then that these jobs are advertised, but not taken. The wages for it aren't bad either - higher than the minimum wage.
People moaning about losing out on benefits for failing to provide evidence of seeking work - well, sorry, but that's a condition of getting something called Job Seeker's Allowance. If the staff didn't ask for evidence then people would take the piss.
Sorry, but you fill find that the reorganisation of benefits by the government is entirely fair. Benefits are not designed to provide a comfortable standard of living, they are designed to provide a minimum standard of living.
Actually this isn't the government treating people like ****. It's people treating people like ****. Perhaps you could say it's an unpleasant side-effect of (what I believe to be) a reasonable approach in the circumstances.
In fact this level of cynicism goes far beyond anything you could accuse either Cameron or Osbourne of, and is only really possible with people who are thoroughly degraded by their work, who are unenthusiastic about it, and lead narrow, unfulfilling lives. The unending contact with the unemployed one after another has doubtless desensitised them - which would happen to any one of us in truth if we were in the same position.
You will also find that the majority of Polish people are hard working, and their employers have nothing but good things to say about them. With many of the jobs they are doing - for example vegetable packing in and around Peterborough - your average benefit claimant would rather remain on the dole than do that work.
There will of course be people coming along to say otherwise, but why is it then that these jobs are advertised, but not taken. The wages for it aren't bad either - higher than the minimum wage.
People moaning about losing out on benefits for failing to provide evidence of seeking work - well, sorry, but that's a condition of getting something called Job Seeker's Allowance. If the staff didn't ask for evidence then people would take the piss.
(edited 13 years ago)
Hm. I grew up on benefits - grew up seeing a car as a luxury, cinema/swimming pool as a birthday treat. Knewwhat it meant to not have electricity, or be able to afford heating. Still sleep on a social work bed, and have watched my mum fill out forms so a charity would buy us bedsheets. Holidays from the Church, in a caravan 40 miles up the road. Food in the fridge only if you could afford it - once we only had a single tomato. Hitting the TV with a rolling pin when it went blank because we couldnt buy a new one. Getting clothes from black bags that the social gave us.
That only changed when a social worker explained to my mum about DLA - and we now have a slightly better standard of living (i.e can afford New Look clothes and mcdonalds every few weeks).
My mum's mentally and physically disabled, plus a 24/7 carer to my sister. She cant work for the foreseeable future, so why should the govt have the right to make her life worse by making it harder to claim benefits, and creating a stigma around them?
That only changed when a social worker explained to my mum about DLA - and we now have a slightly better standard of living (i.e can afford New Look clothes and mcdonalds every few weeks).
My mum's mentally and physically disabled, plus a 24/7 carer to my sister. She cant work for the foreseeable future, so why should the govt have the right to make her life worse by making it harder to claim benefits, and creating a stigma around them?
How can you trick somebody into breaching their job seekers agreement? They make it clear that if you miss a signing on or an appointment, or you don't search for enough jobs, you will lose your claim. If anybody loses their claim they have nobody to blame but themselves.
Original post by Stratos
Why would someone work when the dole is almost the same?
£100 a week for me ( 16 year old ), mum and my sister....
it's not the same
Original post by pol pot noodles
How can you trick somebody into breaching their job seekers agreement? They make it clear that if you miss a signing on or an appointment, or you don't search for enough jobs, you will lose your claim. If anybody loses their claim they have nobody to blame but themselves.
If you bothered to watch the video you would find out.
Original post by garethDT
If you bothered to watch the video you would find out.
The Government does not have a duty to subsidise those who do not look for work. If you're a plumber and don't want to work in a call centre, tough. If you're given a printed job profile, you must apply for said job, those are the rules, it's black and white.
Original post by pol pot noodles
The Government does not have a duty to subsidise those who do not look for work. If you're a plumber and don't want to work in a call centre, tough. If you're given a printed job profile, you must apply for said job, those are the rules, it's black and white.
Watch the video
Original post by garethDT
If you bothered to watch the video you would find out.
You mean like where you go into a job centre and they ask you what sort of jobs you are looking for, and you tell them something like - "Oh, I have a lot of experience as an extruder operator, so I'd like work as an extruder operator please."
Then along you go applying for jobs as an extruder operator - a skilled position, nonetheless, which will pay you quite decently. However, for whatever reason - the recession is a good enough one, so only the best extruder operators are getting the only extruder operator jobs, but also because your CV is crap or you have a criminal record, or any one of a dozen others - you aren't able to find work as an extruder operator.
So after a while, the poor depressed job centre advisor employee - given, at least they have a job, but having to work out who is genuine and who is swinging the lead - many of the latter whom can be on the dole just for the only reason that they are complete unemployable scumbag wasters, and having to apply the rules equally to all for what are actually pretty crap wages - says, "Look, it's not working out, there aren't all that many jobs as an extruder operator, but we have plenty of minimum wage jobs as a cleaner. If you don't take it, you'll get your benefits cut."
So they print you off a load of cleaning jobs, and you are expected to apply for all of them. Unfortunately, some people aren't as enthusiastic applying for these.
Job Seekers allowance means that you have to be actively seeking work. All you have to do is keep a record of doing this. The reason they make you do it is because if they just took people at their word, then people who just wanted to sit at home in front of Jeremy Kyle and Trisha all day would continue to do so.
You forget to dot the i and cross the t. You get sanctioned. Well, thats unfortunate, but in the real world of work, if you have to dot the i and cross the t and you don't do so, pretty soon you will be out on your ear.
"I had someone up in front of me that I'd DMA'd, he'd been beaten up because he couldn't pay someone... he hadn't done the jobsearch properly, fair enough, but..."
So whose fault is that?
Original post by marcusfox
You mean like where you go into a job centre and they ask you what sort of jobs you are looking for, and you tell them something like - "Oh, I have a lot of experience as an extruder operator, so I'd like work as an extruder operator please."
Then along you go applying for jobs as an extruder operator - a skilled position, nonetheless, which will pay you quite decently. However, for whatever reason - the recession is a good enough one, so only the best extruder operators are getting the only extruder operator jobs, but also because your CV is crap or you have a criminal record, or any one of a dozen others - you aren't able to find work as an extruder operator.
So after a while, the poor depressed job centre advisor employee - given, at least they have a job, but having to work out who is genuine and who is swinging the lead - many of the latter whom can be on the dole just for the only reason that they are complete unemployable scumbag wasters, and having to apply the rules equally to all for what are actually pretty crap wages - says, "Look, it's not working out, there aren't all that many jobs as an extruder operator, but we have plenty of minimum wage jobs as a cleaner. If you don't take it, you'll get your benefits cut."
So they print you off a load of cleaning jobs, and you are expected to apply for all of them. Unfortunately, some people aren't as enthusiastic applying for these.
Job Seekers allowance means that you have to be actively seeking work. All you have to do is keep a record of doing this. The reason they make you do it is because if they just took people at their word, then people who just wanted to sit at home in front of Jeremy Kyle and Trisha all day would continue to do so.
You forget to dot the i and cross the t. You get sanctioned. Well, thats unfortunate, but in the real world of work, if you have to dot the i and cross the t and you don't do so, pretty soon you will be out on your ear.
"I had someone up in front of me that I'd DMA'd, he'd been beaten up because he couldn't pay someone... he hadn't done the jobsearch properly, fair enough, but..."
So whose fault is that?
Then along you go applying for jobs as an extruder operator - a skilled position, nonetheless, which will pay you quite decently. However, for whatever reason - the recession is a good enough one, so only the best extruder operators are getting the only extruder operator jobs, but also because your CV is crap or you have a criminal record, or any one of a dozen others - you aren't able to find work as an extruder operator.
So after a while, the poor depressed job centre advisor employee - given, at least they have a job, but having to work out who is genuine and who is swinging the lead - many of the latter whom can be on the dole just for the only reason that they are complete unemployable scumbag wasters, and having to apply the rules equally to all for what are actually pretty crap wages - says, "Look, it's not working out, there aren't all that many jobs as an extruder operator, but we have plenty of minimum wage jobs as a cleaner. If you don't take it, you'll get your benefits cut."
So they print you off a load of cleaning jobs, and you are expected to apply for all of them. Unfortunately, some people aren't as enthusiastic applying for these.
Job Seekers allowance means that you have to be actively seeking work. All you have to do is keep a record of doing this. The reason they make you do it is because if they just took people at their word, then people who just wanted to sit at home in front of Jeremy Kyle and Trisha all day would continue to do so.
You forget to dot the i and cross the t. You get sanctioned. Well, thats unfortunate, but in the real world of work, if you have to dot the i and cross the t and you don't do so, pretty soon you will be out on your ear.
"I had someone up in front of me that I'd DMA'd, he'd been beaten up because he couldn't pay someone... he hadn't done the jobsearch properly, fair enough, but..."
So whose fault is that?
You've entirely missed the point. This is about the clamp down affecting the genuine people because when you have such impersonal targets, honest people will get caught in the firing line. As was said in the video, a lot of these people have mental health problems.
Original post by garethDT
Watch the video
I did.
Original post by pol pot noodles
I did.
Oh I see, so you are just a heartless b*****d, fair enough.
The root of the problem is funding, who funds the JSA? The taxpayer. Who is the taxpayer? The working person. If people are getting made redundant, the funding reduces. It's not the jobcentre's fault if there is not enough funding and the jobcentre hasn't the resources to differentiate between who requires priority JSA over those who don't. This problem is ongoing and will get worse as people get made redundant.
(edited 13 years ago)
The whole idea of 'clamping down' on benefits at a time when you're putting 300,000 people out of work and with unemployment steadily rising is lunacy.
The labour government had the chance to clamp down on benefits cheats but they didn't do it, but that boat has sailed now, it's too late. There's just far too many people to process for a 'clamp down' to be fairly enforced. When people slip through the net and get their benefits cut unfairly it is not 'unfortunate', these people's lives are put at risk.
And anyone who says that we need to clamp down on benefits because of the deficit is an idiot, taking a few hundred pounds off the most vulnerable people in society won't make the blindest bit of difference.
The labour government had the chance to clamp down on benefits cheats but they didn't do it, but that boat has sailed now, it's too late. There's just far too many people to process for a 'clamp down' to be fairly enforced. When people slip through the net and get their benefits cut unfairly it is not 'unfortunate', these people's lives are put at risk.
And anyone who says that we need to clamp down on benefits because of the deficit is an idiot, taking a few hundred pounds off the most vulnerable people in society won't make the blindest bit of difference.
Original post by marcusfox
Listen to the lefty Guardianistas, all they know about is big state and people on benefits to vote for them.
Sorry, but you fill find that the reorganisation of benefits by the government is entirely fair. Benefits are not designed to provide a comfortable standard of living, they are designed to provide a minimum standard of living.
Actually this isn't the government treating people like ****. It's people treating people like ****. Perhaps you could say it's an unpleasant side-effect of (what I believe to be) a reasonable approach in the circumstances.
In fact this level of cynicism goes far beyond anything you could accuse either Cameron or Osbourne of, and is only really possible with people who are thoroughly degraded by their work, who are unenthusiastic about it, and lead narrow, unfulfilling lives. The unending contact with the unemployed one after another has doubtless desensitised them - which would happen to any one of us in truth if we were in the same position.
You will also find that the majority of Polish people are hard working, and their employers have nothing but good things to say about them. With many of the jobs they are doing - for example vegetable packing in and around Peterborough - your average benefit claimant would rather remain on the dole than do that work.
There will of course be people coming along to say otherwise, but why is it then that these jobs are advertised, but not taken. The wages for it aren't bad either - higher than the minimum wage.
People moaning about losing out on benefits for failing to provide evidence of seeking work - well, sorry, but that's a condition of getting something called Job Seeker's Allowance. If the staff didn't ask for evidence then people would take the piss.
Sorry, but you fill find that the reorganisation of benefits by the government is entirely fair. Benefits are not designed to provide a comfortable standard of living, they are designed to provide a minimum standard of living.
Actually this isn't the government treating people like ****. It's people treating people like ****. Perhaps you could say it's an unpleasant side-effect of (what I believe to be) a reasonable approach in the circumstances.
In fact this level of cynicism goes far beyond anything you could accuse either Cameron or Osbourne of, and is only really possible with people who are thoroughly degraded by their work, who are unenthusiastic about it, and lead narrow, unfulfilling lives. The unending contact with the unemployed one after another has doubtless desensitised them - which would happen to any one of us in truth if we were in the same position.
You will also find that the majority of Polish people are hard working, and their employers have nothing but good things to say about them. With many of the jobs they are doing - for example vegetable packing in and around Peterborough - your average benefit claimant would rather remain on the dole than do that work.
There will of course be people coming along to say otherwise, but why is it then that these jobs are advertised, but not taken. The wages for it aren't bad either - higher than the minimum wage.
People moaning about losing out on benefits for failing to provide evidence of seeking work - well, sorry, but that's a condition of getting something called Job Seeker's Allowance. If the staff didn't ask for evidence then people would take the piss.
Said like a true person who hasnt experienced many bad things in life and only experienced life on paper.
Somehow you generalise Polish people as hard working and think thats ok, and think its just as ok to brush the average benefit claimant as not wanting to work.
Theres a clear difference between expecting certain standards from an employer like being treated better than just being a complainer, many Polish accept jobs where they are worked almost like slaves and dont complain, that doesnt mean they are any more hard working but they are more desperate than a UK person for a job.
Also if more Polish people are applying for said job it could mean the employer wants to just hire all or mostly people of one type so they work in a team better, whats the point of having a few British people working with loads of Polish and being left out both by language barriers and social barriers a good thing?
Theres a difference between having more than a few pence left at end of a week and people saying that isnt right and having tons of money to splash out.
i.e living off bread, water and pasta and after paying rent and utilities only having enough to say treat themselves to something like a drink in pub and some sweets doesnt mean their money should be cut down it means they havent spend enough on food
Who funds the taxpayer? 
In any case, this further solidifies the evidence that the government is out to punish those who are unemployed through no fault of their own, that they take a social darwinist attitude towards the unfortunate. Disgusting and inhuman.
In any case, this further solidifies the evidence that the government is out to punish those who are unemployed through no fault of their own, that they take a social darwinist attitude towards the unfortunate. Disgusting and inhuman.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by garethDT
You've entirely missed the point. This is about the clamp down affecting the genuine people because when you have such impersonal targets, honest people will get caught in the firing line. As was said in the video, a lot of these people have mental health problems.
Nope, I think I understood it pretty well.
If you don't follow the rules that apply to claiming a benefit, then that benefit will be cut. Whether or not you are a genuine claimant or you are swinging the lead.
These rules are pretty clearly explained to you, such as keeping a record of your jobsearch activity, applying for all the jobs that the JC ask you to apply for and turn up at your regular scheduled time to sign and discuss your jobsearch activities and how they might be improved.
Things that are a lot easier to comply with than you'd think, and often much less stringent than many obligations applied to you if you do have a job.
Original post by pol pot noodles
The Government does not have a duty to subsidise those who do not look for work. If you're a plumber and don't want to work in a call centre, tough. If you're given a printed job profile, you must apply for said job, those are the rules, it's black and white.
Its alright for those with a job but it is clear there is a lack of jobs. I myself aren't unemployed but i know many people who are and i can assure you it isn't a life style choice and all these people's life's are hell at the moment struggling to pay bills etc etc. most of these people are very educated and have even been applying for jobs in McDonald's and getting turned away.
"If you're a plumber and don't want to work in a call centre"
Not to sure where you get this from you must be deluded people aren't just getting offered jobs like that left right and centre
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