Army medic refused to train to kill. Court martialled.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/medic-refused-Afghan-service/article-3402063-detail/article.html

A ROYAL NAVY medic appeared before a court martial yesterday on a charge of wilful disobedience after he refused on "moral grounds" to deploy to Afghanistan.

Leading Medical Assistant Michael Lyons, of Plymouth, refused to carry out rifle training ahead of deployment, stating that he was a conscientious objector.

Last December, the 24-year-old became the first person to appear before the Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors (ACCO) for 14 years.

It is understood that the committee rejected his claim but the court martial heard yesterday that he was still awaiting formal notification from Defence Secretary Liam Fox.

The hearing was told that his was only the third court martial to be held with conscientious objection as a defence.

The ACCO heard that Lyons decided he could not serve in Afghanistan after he read the Wikileaks' revelations about the conflict.

Lyons, who comes from a military family and was the great-grandson of a decorated Second World War hero, told the committee: "I was unable to find a real, just and noble cause to go out but I still had a sense of duty to my country.
"It was a big dilemma. Soon after, a large number of military documents were leaked by WikiLeaks.

"Examples included a convoy of marines tearing down a six-mile highway, firing at people with no discrimination.

"Being in the military, most people's view was you just have to go out there and do what you're told to do.

"I came to the conclusion I couldn't serve on a moral ground and I couldn't see any political reason for being there."

He said that he was further put off when he learnt he might not be able to treat everyone, regardless of who they were.

He said: "It seems from previous testimony and courses I've done that even going out as a medic with all good intention, if you're at a patrol base or forward operating base, it's likely you'll have to use your weapon and will have to turn civilians away who are in need of medical aid."

He added: "If more people in my position stood up, there would be a lot less innocent lives lost around the world."

The court martial hearing at Portsmouth Naval Base, Hampshire, was adjourned for a further preliminary hearing on April 14.

The previous court martial cases involving conscientious objection as a defence are Muslim reservist Mohisin Khan, from Ipswich, who refused to serve with the RAF as a medic.

He lost his appeal for going absent without leave (Awol) in 2004.

In the other case, Lance Corporal Joe Glenton, from York, last year lost his appeal against a nine-month jail sentence after he went Awol prior to his second deployment to Afghanistan.

tl:dr, look at bold.

Discuss.

(Before you rep me, I am only posting an article and am so far neither for or against the topic in question)

(edited 13 years ago)

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Reply 1

LtCommanderData

1 - good for him

2 - plonker never should have joined in the first place

Full disclosure: I hate the armed forces (though not necessarily the individuals that make them up)

Reply 2

Aphotic Cosmos

1. Navy medic :fyi:

2. One wonders why he didn't think about this before he joined up. Genius. Although I guess when you're in the Navy you generally aren't expected to see much action in a landlocked desert nation.

Reply 3

BlueJoker

While I agree with his political reasoning, he shouldn't be in the army if he's not prepared to do horrible things. If you sign up for the army you should be prepared for the realities of war.

Reply 4

SAK.A

I respect the guy. An agree with him completely. Except for the fact that I do not feel it is my duty to serve my country.

Reply 5

Steevee

You're in the Navy. It's your bloomin' job.

If you're not prepared to do it then take your dishonorable discharge. They've spent thousands training you and then you turn away from the Nations international interests on political basis? Not on. If you want to be an objector, don't join the bloomin' armed forces. What a dolt.

Reply 6

Pukhtun

What do you make of the fact that he wants to serve his country by saving lives rather than taking them?

His family has a history of serving under the armed forces and he feels the need to do so. What should he do? Should he just 'act like a man' and go to war? Or just serve his country in the NHS?

You can see his intentions are good but what would you do in his position?

(playing devil's adovcate by the way, not my own opinion)

Reply 7

fwed1

I don't understand why you would join the armed forces if you are against conflict... If he wanted to be just a medic there are plenty of jobs that offer that without requiring military involvement.

Reply 8

ch0llima

Why did he join any branch of the military in the first place then? :lolwut:

Reply 9

Pukhtun

Original post by ch0llima

Why did he join any branch of the military in the first place then? :lolwut:

He realised too late that it is not a just war? (in his opinion)

If he was to get 10 years in prison do you think that would be too harsh(or too soft) given that his intentions were supposedly good?

From reading the article it seems that it is not killing that he objects to but killing in the right cause? (I'm just assuming here)

Bear in mind he did train to be a naval medic, not a frontline infantry soldier.

.

Reply 10

CurlyBen

Original post by LtCommanderData

1 - good for him

2 - plonker never should have joined in the first place

Full disclosure: I hate the armed forces (though not necessarily the individuals that make them up)

So why are you using a military rank as your username? :s-smilie:

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

2. One wonders why he didn't think about this before he joined up. Genius. Although I guess when you're in the Navy you generally aren't expected to see much action in a landlocked desert nation.

As it happens, the Naval service (which includes the Royals) have made up over 50% of the forces deployed by the UK to Afghanistan on occasion. Pilots, logisticians, medics as well as the Marines - they've all been sent out there. Not many people realise that but when you're in the RN it shouldn't be a big surprise!

I'd be quite interested to know if he's intending to leave the Navy in any case - I'd have some more respect for him if he does. Ultimately I don't think I have a lot of sympathy for him - these are decisions he should have considered before he joined (at 24, the war in Afghanistan had been ongoing for at least 3 years before he joined).

Reply 11

joe3469

Good on him... will go down as a martyr

Reply 12

greeneyedgirl

a lot FEWER innocent lives lost, not less!

/grammar nazi

I see his point, but then again war zones were never gonna be fair were they?

Reply 13

Harrifer

Typical Navy ********.

I'm just glad the Navy are getting the broadside of the MOD cuts, much more than the other forces.

That self-entitled pie munching chump probably would have got sacked anyway. He doesn't look like he's got the spine to do much with a rifle, so it's probably a good thing he pointed it out before Terry Taliban did.

Reply 14

Aj12

Should't have joined up then tbh.

Reply 15

CurlyBen

Facepalm? It's been a rank in the Royal Navy since the early 1900s, well before TNG - whatever that is. It's a military rank.
Still seems odd for someone who claims to have the military.

Reply 16

Pukhtun

i.e. some guy from Star Trek.

Original post by Aj12

Should't have joined up then tbh.

If he was to get 10 years in prison do you think that would be too harsh(or too soft) given that his intentions were supposedly good?

Reply 17

Aj12

Original post by Pukhtun

i.e. some guy from Star Trek.

If he was to get 10 years in prison do you think that would be too harsh(or too soft) given that his intentions were supposedly good?

1 year suspended sentence and a dishonorable discharge(if thats what they do in the military)

10 years seems way to harsh for this kind of thing.

Reply 18

LtCommanderData

Original post by CurlyBen

So why are you using a military rank as your username? :s-smilie:

It's a character from Star Trek: The Next Generation

Reply 19

Architecture-er

They should just give him a dishonourable discharge and be done with it.. but from their PoV I bet they see it as him stealing education and their resources, and then buggering off without paying his dues (i.e. being deployed).