Should we leave the EU?

British are deluded, the argument that we live on a small island is invalid we actually don't have enough immigrants

British are deluded, the argument that we live on a small island is invalid we actually don't have enough immigrants

Why do Brits complain about the EU so much? I'm from Luxembourg and we've never had any issues with being part of the bloc, I mean the borders are open I can go and live in France, Germany, Spain without restrictions or having to go through border control. Why on earth would we want to separate or exclude ourselves from Europe. Switzerland and Norway implement almost the same regulations but they are unique countries. The UK is not Switzerland and it will never be, you'll only lose if you leave the EU which I think will never happen anyway.

An economic union is desirable, but I'm not in favour of anything further than that. Further integration is not a good idea imo.

Out of curiosity, what makes you opposed to further integration?

Well I'm really not an expert on the EU, but mainly the loss of national sovereignty. States are way too varied to have their laws and actions dictated by a supreme body, I don't really see how we could do it without a large number of opt-outs from treaties - and doesn't that kind of miss the point of further integration? Also, what social model would we choose and how would this even be implemented?
I'm not really sure, on the one hand I can see the appeal of a united Europe in a global sense, but on the other hand and realistically, I don't know how it would be achieved

EDIT: I definitely agree with your idea that the EU needs to be reformed though.

I see your point about loss of sovereignty. The sticky part for most folk I talk to is the same.

Is that necessarily a bad thing though? Don't get me wrong, the current set up is poor but I would eventually like to see something like a federal Europe. A long way off, if its even a realistic possibility right enough

Well yeah, I think it is a bad thing I'd vote for a party based on their policies, only for them to be overriden by an unaccountable European body. Don't know whether or not a federal Europe is inevitable, but there needs to be a huge reform of the system before we'd be comfortable with further integration.
The principle behind setting up the EU seems a bit shaky to me aswell. Fair enough, after the war we needed unity but is that really relevant now?
Why would you like to see a federal Europe out of interest?

Definitely. There is absolutely no benefit of the UK being in the EU. The Euro has evidently failed, Britain is forced to comply with 75% of laws that the EU makes, there's unlimited immigration despite the fact there's no jobs. This country fought 2 wars in order to preserve it's independence and it's being removed by the EU.

Which relates back to the call for reform before any more parliamentary powers are handed to Brussels, so as to combat the unaccountability in EU institutions. I don't want you to think I'm in support of the UK becoming a puppet or saellite state by the way its just that I broadly support the idea of further European unity.

I think the idea of collective security is still relevant but I should mention that the EU isn't particularly necessary for that to be achieved. There is still other organisations that offer that, UN, etc. Yet I still consider the EU a positive idea that's only just become muddled and bogged down in uneccessary and sometimes counter-productive measures. Again the key word to fix this- reform.

When it comes down to it I realise I must sound like a nieve Idealist I can't help myself. In a dream world, borders would be erased, cultures integrated, a singular world government with regionalised organisations to ensure efficent management and representation of peoples. To me, a continued push at european integration is a step in that direction albeit still worlds away from that dream!

True, reform is necessary but I can't see it happening (I sound so pessimistic ). All of the treaties so far haven't made any REAL change towards making the EU more democratic - all I can think of is the increase in co-decision powers for Parliament, and that's not significant really in the grand scheme of things. Reform is always on the cards but in this case it needs to be more of an overhaul of the system then a few amendments here and there. The EU seems to be aiming for further integration but shouldn't they be trying to reform themselves first in order to make integration more appealing?

Collective security - asking for countries to give up their powers on this is a step too far imo. They won't all agree - Iraq and Libya for example, where there is a clear division of opinion. To some extent, I think that the UN has only survived because it is not a supreme body if you see what I mean.

Your last paragraph scares me a little bit! The idea of a global government doesn't appeal to me personally - if Europe did integrate fully, do you think we would ever be able to do so with the USA? Or do you think that the USA would be opposed to the idea or not? Just curious on how you'd implement this

Edit : wouldn't it also be a bit risky to use one single currency globally when all countries are so varied economically? What would happen in the case where a country defaults on their debt?