Working as doctor in the UK,worth struggling for it?

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Yet it is your unwillingness to allow someone to provide their thoughts or advice without ridicule that turns threads such as this into exactly what you get elsewhere on this forum

Reply 21

sven

Original post by FailWhale

take it from a guy that traded some exciting FMCG before... unless you make a PILE of money and on the regular so that you're basically doing your hobbies most of the time, you will get bored of trading the same items over and over all day. medicine is so much more varied and much more guaranteed too. right now money is important, in 20 years security will be too, you ask anybody in business what they're worried about...

Dude,you are right -I was bored.But most important-I was feeling unaccomplished,working with mostly morons in suits.I earned a lot for the age,but not piles of money -40000€ a year (at 23).

I guess you are right-business can bring you lots of cash but can leave you naked.Medicine won't bring you exactly to the sky,but will give more stability?

Reply 22

sven

Original post by medic101

Why don't you do some work here for a month or so and see if you like it first?

I am applying for a month clerkship at Bristol Uni clinic this summer via IFMSA program.Hope to get it

ps:By the way I recommend everybody to try IFMSA.You can basically do clerkships almost in any country in the world.

Reply 23

sven

Original post by No Future

What's FMCG?

=fast moving consumer goods

Sorry, this is a bit incoherent:

Maybe some things to ponder...

- What do you enjoy doing?
- What do you want to do?
- Do you want to work with patients?
- Do you want to work in a hospital?
- What motivates you? Success, money...something else?
- Do you actually want to work in medicine?
- Life is short...seriously.

Sorry to sound superficial-but yes I am strongly motivated by success and money.
Working with patients?Thats is not a problem for me.Although this is not exactly type of people who will brighten up your life.My father who is a cardiologist once told me "you want to be a doctor- fine,but get ready to work with very very difficult characters".
Funny enough,he is a bit like me.He got lots of success in medicine,got professor degree,couple of patents in clinical pharmacology etc.But he always complains of how depressing this job is.I guess its genetic.

Life is short-thats exactly a reason why am I lately so depressed and full of doubts about my career choice.

Some specialties don't involve so many sick people.

I've heard people say that working with sick children or the terminally ill is particularly depressing. Maybe that is influencing how you're feeling? Do you actually want to quit medicine or are you just having a bad time at the moment?

I ve been to those places-I had hard time sleeping after.They are depressing indeed.I won't be working there for sure.

I have a friend who worked in neuroradiology at one time and told me that he spent most of his time telling people they were going to die and the job made him utterly depressed.

He finished training as a radiologist (US) and runs a medical business and does some clinical work. He works non stop but seems fairly happy. His advice to me was to complete specialty training.

interesting

My impression is that lifestyle is very specialty dependent.

thats why I am here.To know about specialist training in the UK and how is it to be one.

Do you want to work in business and leave medicine?
Do you want to work in medicine?
Do you want to work in business and medicine?

i guess the last one would sound great.But I am afraid its impossible.We have 24 hours day.

Business is probably going to be better for money.

Anything specific you have in mind with regards to the UK? Why the UK over any other EU country?

Where would you be happy living?
Do you like the UK?

I am dutch national,but nothing bounds me to Holland.My family does not live there,country is depressing and boring.In fact I have not been living in Holland for most time of my life since I turned 18 so this is not an option.

I speak spanish,english,and couple of other languages.I would love to live and work and Spain,but the situation with medicine is terrible there.Doctors in training get like 900€/month,and specialist get €2000/month.Private clinic?Well I need to finish my training first.

I like the UK,honestly.I lived there when I was young,the mentality and lifestyle fits me perfectly.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 24

No Future

Original post by sven

Thanks, noted for future reference!

Reply 25

No Future

Original post by sven

Presumably unless selling FMCG really took off and your business grew, your salary would not grow beyond 40k, so for a 23 yo it would be great, but when you're 40, 50 etc would you be happy with the same salary esp if you have a family etc? Caring for children, elderly parents etc?

Would your salary grow more, less or similarly to the NHS doctor payscale? Maybe something to consider? Or maybe too hard to predict in business?

Presumably there's not as much security and stability as in medicine? What about your retirement?

Would you still enjoy selling FMCG for the next 10, 20 etc years? Some might argue that medicine would be more 'rewarding' (non financially) over the long term. Better job satisfaction etc.

What about the 6 years of medical training you have done and paid for so far? You could say that's 6 years of not getting your business set up/establishing yourself in business. Does this matter?

Unless I am missing something (bear I mind I don't have a full picture of what your business involved), if it was me, personally I would choose medicine. How long would you enjoy selling FMCG for? "Working with idiots in suits" - I think there's idiots almost everywhere you go/work! Unless you're lucky, hard to escape.

Tell me if I misunderstand selling FMCG.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 26

FailWhale

most of that lost post was fairly naive as you can make much more than in medicine if you work hard enough and are smart, but near the end she's quite right.

you think the idiots in suits working in hospitals are dumb? wait till you see what creatures graduate from business school on a full time basis. in fact in trading often the guys don't even have a relevant degree, they just fell into it somehow.

and the ones who have got their MBA? take 1 part massive ego from making lots of money, and mix in there 1part imagining yourself as an intellectual because you paid a pile of money for what is essentially a general knowledge masters degree (MBA).

go download MBA in a day and just look through there, other than some of the finance equations and accounting rules which are a weekend's study for most med students, the rest of it is just teaching common sense to people that apparently don't have it. these are the people you will be negotiating with all the time. and no it doesn't make sealing the deal easier, it just makes it so that stupid things like how hot your PR girls are and how well you dressed count more than the actual details.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 27

sven

Original post by FailWhale

Nice one

Reply 28

No Future

Original post by FailWhale

most of that lost post was fairly naive as you can make much more than in medicine if you work hard enough and are smart, but near the end she's quite right..

Business is better money and medicine is better stability.

Your max salary is limited in medicine, but if things go well in business, the sky's the limit.

In what way was my post naive?

Selling FMCG at 40k Euros per year. How much room for growth would there be? (genuine question)

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 29

magichearts

Original post by No Future

Business is better money and medicine is better stability.

Your max salary is limited in medicine, but if things go well in business, the sky's the limit.

In what way was my post naive?

I agree with this. Business can earn you piles...end up high in the business ladder - you're set for life. But business isn't the most stable career. There has been the recession and in the US there were high up business people who were earning massive paychecks and ended up losing their job and couldn't find another job (probably the same story in the UK). It's a risky career. Medicine on the other hand - yes you can only earn so much (unless you go into private practice) but it is fairly stable. There is always the need for doctors. Recession or not - people still need to see a doctor. It's fairly hard to get "unemployed" as in lose your job/canned unless you are seriously under-performing or did something horrible.

Medicine can be depressing and it depends what specialty you go into. Yes you will see very ill patients but at the same time you can help ill patients feel better and help them get back on track with their health. In my opinion that's quite rewarding as well.

Reply 30

FailWhale

business is not universally better money by a long shot. the vast majority of business grads will realize that running their own business is too tough and life will take over requiring them to work in at best middle management for the rest of their days.

most new businesses end in failure, and not because the people starting them are incompetent. timing and luck has a lot to do with it. if you're a doctor and you're business savvy, you will always find something entrepreneurial to do that will be much more guaranteed.

there are tons of opportunities out there and the barriers for new entrants (something they teach in business school) are very high making you an even more secure businessman if you're going in as a doctor.

Reply 31

Revenged

what you are saying is all perfectly normal. medical school is difficult and being a doctor is worse. it is a very good thing to enter your work with your eyes wide open and considering your options early is something you should be doing. this ultimately would mean you do not chose a career you are not happy with. working in the uk is a very good option compared to other places in the world.

this all said i suggest you do not lose focus too much. work on what the current problem are as i can assure you a lack of motivation in medicine is most often circumstantial. it is due to a situation you are in. standard problems are failed exams, nightmare consultant, nightmare medical attachments, unfounded/poorly handled complaints from or by the medical school, getting messed up by the system etc.

nobody is immune to this. it is important that you get over these problems and most of the time talking with friends that say the same is enough to get back on track. the only other advice would be listen to the person that said enthusiasm ebbs and flows. for some it ebbs more than it flows but when you think like this just remember how good you are. medicine is probably the most tested stressful subject you can study so to get this far you have done very well. i suggest you work on finishing medical school and work on brushing up some of your skills. most people get through it and only very rarely do doctors remind you of all the things you can do well. as for the future i suggest you try the uk and see how the fy1 goes. it is certainly is a good life/balance here so a great option for you. there are some very good options for careers in medicine - GP, anaesthetics, radiology - and now you've got this far i suggest you stick with it.

HTH

(edited 13 years ago)