I don't mean to hurt people's feelings BUT...
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Original post by Pendulum
Whilst there is some truth in what you say, if you look at the number of people graduating in 1970 compared to today you realise that it's more a surplus of poorly qualified graduates rather than a shortage of graduate jobs.
Very true. This is why I get very pissed off at the government allowing so many 'unis' to open up and are trying to get even more people to go to uni.
Original post by Knowslian
When I spoke to many of the older people at my former part time job; they would always talk about the abundance of jobs in the 70s - 90s. None of this intense 4 stage graduate job application process, just a newspaper advertisement: send CV / Covering Letter and go for an interview. I agree with the luck part, but your personality/characteristics also play a huge part in getting job regardless of academic accomplishments.
Also; what would you define as a "real university" with a "real degree?"
Also; what would you define as a "real university" with a "real degree?"
I would say a real uni is one within the top 40 ( of the subject), and a real degree being sciences and classical humanities, however I do think there are far to many graduates of humanities and that there should be a national cap on the number of students doing it otherwise they are just getting screwed out of their money.
I think personality is also a big factor in getting a job, maybe even more so then the university you went to
Original post by Jimbo1234
Very true. This is why I get very pissed off at the government allowing so many 'unis' to open up and are trying to get even more people to go to uni.
I would say a real uni is one within the top 40 ( of the subject), and a real degree being sciences and classical humanities, however I do think there are far to many graduates of humanities and that there should be a national cap on the number of students doing it otherwise they are just getting screwed out of their money.
I would say a real uni is one within the top 40 ( of the subject), and a real degree being sciences and classical humanities, however I do think there are far to many graduates of humanities and that there should be a national cap on the number of students doing it otherwise they are just getting screwed out of their money.
Universities are businesses. If Sheffield Hallam or whatever get load sof people through the door doing Photography or Sociology, are they really gonna complain? They're making money off people thinking A degree, ANY degree, is a thing to work to in life.
A lot of people have very arrogant attitudes towards graduates who can't find work.
On the one hand they say LOL you went to an average university and did an arts degree LOL as if you're gonna get a job. Then on the other hand they say why don't you have a job you could get one if you really wanted....?
I can understand the graduates who don't want to just take 'any job' eg working in MacDonalds or doing a data entry type job because it can be a CV killer to an extent. Think about the graduate schemes who want exceptional candidates, they are looking to identify high fliers. So when they are looking at a load of 21 year olds who are in their final year at uni and have great ECs etc they think "potential". When they look at a 23 year old who got a 2:1 in History a couple of years ago from a decent uni, then worked a £15k a year admin job for the council they think, hmmm "data inputter".
One of the big myths from the older generation is you can get a job and start at the bottom and work your way up. You might have been able to in the past but it's pretty rare now. When companies run graduate schemes, they are targeting graduate recruitment at people who they see as having potential to progress, the other staff they have are just to make up the numbers on the lower salaries at the bottom. If you get an entry level job where you're just photocopying, filing and answering the phone, then no matter how great you are at that job you will still be doing it in 2 years time, they won't promote you to a graduate scheme. So you won't have any new skills to update your CV with.
This is the big underemployment trap a lot of grads fall in to and I have seen it with quite a few people I know who graduated 4 years ago now, they are all on these admin/customer service jobs earning between £14k-£20k and with no real hope of progressing to further. There are a LOT of bitter disillusioned graduates in these type of jobs who are late 20s/early 30s, and have the attitude "I coulda bin a contenda" moaning about why they went to a good uni and got a 2:1 and they thought life would have been better than this...
On the one hand they say LOL you went to an average university and did an arts degree LOL as if you're gonna get a job. Then on the other hand they say why don't you have a job you could get one if you really wanted....?
I can understand the graduates who don't want to just take 'any job' eg working in MacDonalds or doing a data entry type job because it can be a CV killer to an extent. Think about the graduate schemes who want exceptional candidates, they are looking to identify high fliers. So when they are looking at a load of 21 year olds who are in their final year at uni and have great ECs etc they think "potential". When they look at a 23 year old who got a 2:1 in History a couple of years ago from a decent uni, then worked a £15k a year admin job for the council they think, hmmm "data inputter".
One of the big myths from the older generation is you can get a job and start at the bottom and work your way up. You might have been able to in the past but it's pretty rare now. When companies run graduate schemes, they are targeting graduate recruitment at people who they see as having potential to progress, the other staff they have are just to make up the numbers on the lower salaries at the bottom. If you get an entry level job where you're just photocopying, filing and answering the phone, then no matter how great you are at that job you will still be doing it in 2 years time, they won't promote you to a graduate scheme. So you won't have any new skills to update your CV with.
This is the big underemployment trap a lot of grads fall in to and I have seen it with quite a few people I know who graduated 4 years ago now, they are all on these admin/customer service jobs earning between £14k-£20k and with no real hope of progressing to further. There are a LOT of bitter disillusioned graduates in these type of jobs who are late 20s/early 30s, and have the attitude "I coulda bin a contenda" moaning about why they went to a good uni and got a 2:1 and they thought life would have been better than this...
I agree with you AND your friends lol.
Original post by insoms
Universities are businesses. If Sheffield Hallam or whatever get load sof people through the door doing Photography or Sociology, are they really gonna complain? They're making money off people thinking A degree, ANY degree, is a thing to work to in life.
Exactly, but in the long run this will hurt the government as many students will never pay off their debt. Also the government has interfered with business before with caps and regulations so why should it be any different for unis?
Original post by Carnivores
I agree with you AND your friends lol.
Nice...
Original post by jonny
Thats a bit unfair, there are simply not enough jobs for all the graduates
So,the less lazy ones will probably get the jobs that are available. See my thinking?
Original post by dinotopiaisawful
are some of the people moaning about not being able to get a graduate job just lazy?
From personal experience, the friends of mine with graduate job offers already are those who have been applying since August and have done internships, etc. Yes, they have been rejected a lot but through perseverance have got a job offer.
Other friends who moan about not being able to get a job have maybe made one application and have made very little effort in their uni years to gain employable skills (e.g. travel, join societies, charity work, etc).
Why do these people think they have a right to a graduate job?
Just got back from the pub after having an intense debate with some friends about this and wondered what others opinions were. My friends both disagreed with me and said there simply aren't enough jobs for graduates atm.
Have to say, i was sort of expecting a lot of thumbs down! (thanks for the one thumbs up though whoever that was!)
From personal experience, the friends of mine with graduate job offers already are those who have been applying since August and have done internships, etc. Yes, they have been rejected a lot but through perseverance have got a job offer.
Other friends who moan about not being able to get a job have maybe made one application and have made very little effort in their uni years to gain employable skills (e.g. travel, join societies, charity work, etc).
Why do these people think they have a right to a graduate job?
Just got back from the pub after having an intense debate with some friends about this and wondered what others opinions were. My friends both disagreed with me and said there simply aren't enough jobs for graduates atm.
Have to say, i was sort of expecting a lot of thumbs down! (thanks for the one thumbs up though whoever that was!)
I don't think you can say for definite. Yes, some people are lazy and just "expect" to walk into a job but for others, it's a matter of luck and a lack of opportunities.
Doesnt your opinion on this debate depend on whether or not you have a graduate job confimed or not?
People who have a graduate position in the bag already are obviously going to say that people are moaning about the graduate recruitment market whilst people who havent got a job after uni are going to be down about the state of the economy. IMO, it is a combination of the two, there is a certain element of arrogance in a significant amount of graduates which leads them to expect employment simply because they have attended a university, which is completly ridiculous. However, the market is depressed and therefore when recession hits, labour is cut = fewer graduate entry jobs, graduates are a luxury in many large businesses. So it is a bit of both.
People who have a graduate position in the bag already are obviously going to say that people are moaning about the graduate recruitment market whilst people who havent got a job after uni are going to be down about the state of the economy. IMO, it is a combination of the two, there is a certain element of arrogance in a significant amount of graduates which leads them to expect employment simply because they have attended a university, which is completly ridiculous. However, the market is depressed and therefore when recession hits, labour is cut = fewer graduate entry jobs, graduates are a luxury in many large businesses. So it is a bit of both.
Original post by Jimbo1234
I would say a real uni is one within the top 40 ( of the subject), and a real degree being sciences and classical humanities, however I do think there are far to many graduates of humanities and that there should be a national cap on the number of students doing it otherwise they are just getting screwed out of their money.
I disagree with capping but I think you make a valid point. I think it should be made crystal clear at the beginning of your course what percentage of graduates on that exact course (not department or university wide) gain a graduate level position. Then if a student takes the risk then that is their decision, it is their money to waste. Furthermore, if a person loves their subjects and wants to go into academia then a cap shouldnt stop them.
Original post by Staker
I have a grad job, I think it was probably down to experience and personality.
The only other person I know to now have a grad job is my mate who really worked hard to get it.
The others just apply with a half cooked application and get insta failed.
The only other person I know to now have a grad job is my mate who really worked hard to get it.
The others just apply with a half cooked application and get insta failed.
The thing is though, look bat 30/40 years and you would have had numerous job offers simply for having a degree even if your application was just a picture of you with your degree.
Nowadays you need far more for a job that probably pays less (relative to spending power) then what they had and that is after being rejected numerous times.
Yeah, i know what you mean about the title. I was just trying to think of something that would make people read the thread to be honest!
entrepreneurship
Original post by MagicNMedicine
A lot of people have very arrogant attitudes towards graduates who can't find work.
On the one hand they say LOL you went to an average university and did an arts degree LOL as if you're gonna get a job. Then on the other hand they say why don't you have a job you could get one if you really wanted....?
I can understand the graduates who don't want to just take 'any job' eg working in MacDonalds or doing a data entry type job because it can be a CV killer to an extent. Think about the graduate schemes who want exceptional candidates, they are looking to identify high fliers. So when they are looking at a load of 21 year olds who are in their final year at uni and have great ECs etc they think "potential". When they look at a 23 year old who got a 2:1 in History a couple of years ago from a decent uni, then worked a £15k a year admin job for the council they think, hmmm "data inputter".
One of the big myths from the older generation is you can get a job and start at the bottom and work your way up. You might have been able to in the past but it's pretty rare now. When companies run graduate schemes, they are targeting graduate recruitment at people who they see as having potential to progress, the other staff they have are just to make up the numbers on the lower salaries at the bottom. If you get an entry level job where you're just photocopying, filing and answering the phone, then no matter how great you are at that job you will still be doing it in 2 years time, they won't promote you to a graduate scheme. So you won't have any new skills to update your CV with.
This is the big underemployment trap a lot of grads fall in to and I have seen it with quite a few people I know who graduated 4 years ago now, they are all on these admin/customer service jobs earning between £14k-£20k and with no real hope of progressing to further. There are a LOT of bitter disillusioned graduates in these type of jobs who are late 20s/early 30s, and have the attitude "I coulda bin a contenda" moaning about why they went to a good uni and got a 2:1 and they thought life would have been better than this...
On the one hand they say LOL you went to an average university and did an arts degree LOL as if you're gonna get a job. Then on the other hand they say why don't you have a job you could get one if you really wanted....?
I can understand the graduates who don't want to just take 'any job' eg working in MacDonalds or doing a data entry type job because it can be a CV killer to an extent. Think about the graduate schemes who want exceptional candidates, they are looking to identify high fliers. So when they are looking at a load of 21 year olds who are in their final year at uni and have great ECs etc they think "potential". When they look at a 23 year old who got a 2:1 in History a couple of years ago from a decent uni, then worked a £15k a year admin job for the council they think, hmmm "data inputter".
One of the big myths from the older generation is you can get a job and start at the bottom and work your way up. You might have been able to in the past but it's pretty rare now. When companies run graduate schemes, they are targeting graduate recruitment at people who they see as having potential to progress, the other staff they have are just to make up the numbers on the lower salaries at the bottom. If you get an entry level job where you're just photocopying, filing and answering the phone, then no matter how great you are at that job you will still be doing it in 2 years time, they won't promote you to a graduate scheme. So you won't have any new skills to update your CV with.
This is the big underemployment trap a lot of grads fall in to and I have seen it with quite a few people I know who graduated 4 years ago now, they are all on these admin/customer service jobs earning between £14k-£20k and with no real hope of progressing to further. There are a LOT of bitter disillusioned graduates in these type of jobs who are late 20s/early 30s, and have the attitude "I coulda bin a contenda" moaning about why they went to a good uni and got a 2:1 and they thought life would have been better than this...
Very good post.
Unfortunately this is exactly the trap I'm stuck in...
Since June I've been doing a temp admin job while looking to find something more career related (got 2:1 Computer Science @ University of Hertfordshire). Yes, I've had some interviews in this time but I've not been able to get in anywhere. What's been really frustrating is the occasions I've been fobbed off with cheap excuses after the interview. One was "oh they've interviewed the candidates and the job spec has been changed" and my particular favourite was after an interview I had with an asset management firm. In the interview I was told that since the IT guys don't come from a financial background the financial knowledge isn't essential from the outset and that they will train candidates in this aspect. Guess what the supposedly rejected me for not having...financial knowledge!!!
All in all my experience of the graduate job market has been a desperate struggle laced with disappointment, so much so I find myself so demotivated and carry on plodding away with my **** admin job because it's my only source of income.
A typical catch 22, between rock and a hard place scenario. I need money to live (who doesn't) but in return I do a soul killing job in which every day that passes is another day I don't have a grad job, don't keep my skills up to date etc. etc.
Anyway, I've decided to leave at the end of May and try to get a graduate job with this year's graduates. Will be even harder now but A) If I do this job any more I will want to staple myself to a moving bus and hope if crashes into a burning building and B) I didn't give myself a proper shot at job hunting before because of work. I need to try for real now, not only for the sake of my future but the sake of my sanity... I can't do this job anymore!
Out of interest are there any people out there who managed to get a graduate job a year or more after they finish study? Give me hope!
(edited 13 years ago)
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