only 452 black students in the UK met Oxfords entry requirements!

I am just generally talking about the fact that Oxbridge do tend to favour applicants from private schools!

That is nonsense! They both accept roughly the same proportion of applicants from the state sector as they do from the private sector.

I personally don't think that's the case.

That is nonsense! They both accept roughly the same proportion of applicants from the state sector as they do from the private sector.

If I applied to Oxford and get rejected I would not EVER blame them. It is not fair for private school students f they have the right qualities and everything that Oxford want but get rejected because the uni has to accept someone else from comprehensive schools who has lower ability. I am pretty sure that people from less good schools will make it in to Oxford if they have higher ability than those from private schools. It is just that majority of private educated students are from supportive parents, they recive better education and they have been taught differently resulting in having relatively greater chance of getting in. It happens so many times that it may seem as if the uni is discriminating against conprehensive schools, race or skin colours.. when to be honest, it is just all about the ability fo the person. And not about skin colours.

I am not an Oxbridge supporter or anything. I am just saying what I think.

I would be saying the same thing for other unis in the same case.

Oxford defends its lack of blacks by claiming the statistics were skewed and that they in fact admitted 30 to 40 students of African heritage last year. They then claim that:

"only 452 black students across the country had even achieved the A-level results demanded by Oxford to meet its minimum entry requirements for the 2009-10 academic year." [1]

Do you reckon this statistic is accurate? When I did AS levels I wasn't aware the examiners knew my ethnicity.

If it IS accurate, what do people make of it? Where does the fault lie? Is it a damning indictment of the low aspirations of British students of African heritage, or is it society wot is to blame?

Yes, and yet 93% of all children in the UK receive a state education!

This is just a guess but are you not black?

Well I care because it's plain unfair and grammar schools should be brought back to enable poor people (of any ethnicity) compete for top universities - even I at a private school think it's unfair.

EDIT: Hmmmm nice to get negged for showing sympathy and decency. Just shows that I should be the Conservative everyone expects of me then...

Ok, maybe I have to be more specific. I know more % of students attend comprehensive schools compared to private school. But take this as an example, If the claim of 8 applicants to a place is true and there are lets say 4 comprehensive school applicants and 4 private school applicants, all of similar academic achievement e.t.c. Who do you personally think will gain admission? (this is offcourse subjective)

But it's not dependent on their race though - I'm mixed race, did traditional subjects etc etc. But I'm middle class.
There are 1000s of white children doing non-traditional subjects, and they tend to be at schools in deprived/working class areas.

Not all black students are the same - plenty of non-white parents went to university!

You can't say that all black students have less "cultural capital" and have uninformed (regarding higher education) parents because that's clearly not true. If you look at the stats, access to HE is actually far more divided on social class/socio-economic lines than any other way. A higher % of black people are non-middle/upper class than white people, which is why it can appear affected by race.

And why can't privately educated people go to Oxford? What?!

Yes, and yet 93% of all children in the UK receive a state education!

Ok, maybe I have to be more specific. I know more % of students attend comprehensive schools compared to private school. But take this as an example, If the claim of 8 applicants to a place is true and there are lets say 4 comprehensive school applicants and 4 private school applicants, all of similar academic achievement e.t.c. Who do you personally think will gain admission? (this is offcourse subjective)

No, on average private school's generally preform better, have better preparation for oxbridge interviews, small class sizes, more supportive teachers who know uni applications inside out etc...

All of these small perks make private school kids stronger applicants (grades and interview wise) than there state counterparts.

I went to a state school and I got no university help what so ever, I had to research everything myself and all the school did for me was write my referance and send my form off.

Oxbridge only let in the best (or what they see as the best during the interview assuming grades are generally the same across applicants)
Private school kids will have more interview practise, understand what oxbridge want to see in a student and therefore be more likely to be made an offer.

There is no preferance oxbridge will take what they think is the best student regardless of school/race/gender etc...

The better candidates, wherever they are from.

This is exactly what I was meant to have put across. You have mentioned the fact that privately educated students will be better prepared for interviews and all sorts of other things and they will be supported throughout the way compared to someone from a state school.

So would you not say that a privately educated students will have more chances of gaining admission?

The reason private schools offer such a large proportion of the Oxbridge candidates is simply that parents who can afford it and who live in an area with no grammar schools are quite likely to send their bright children to a selective private school in lieu of a state grammar school. Non-selective private schools don't perform well in terms of Oxbridge entrance.

This is exactly what I was meant to have put across. You have mentioned the fact that privately educated students will be better prepared for interviews and all sorts of other things and they will be supported throughout the way compared to someone from a state school.

So would you not say that a privately educated students will have more chances of gaining admission?

Yes I understand that ALL races have there issues with culture and where they grow up etc.. but we cant over look the fact that a lot more white people have a better chance than black/ethnic people to get into a top ranking university and therefore more ethnic people need to be let thought the system until that bridge is gapped. I don’t think EVERY black person should be a lot to get into a grammar school based on nothing but there skin colour but if you have a school of 400 grammar students and 370 of them are white because all the ethnic children attended poorer inner city schools how is that fair? Some of them might have missed out on a place by a few marks/ didn’t get in because 2 many people hit the criteria, but it doesn’t mean they don’t show potential and drive to be a high achiever. I’m not saying it’s the fairest way because it isn’t, it would mean taking some places of white children that might have been as equally deserving but some times scarifies have to be made in order for other races to catch up 10-15 years down the line there should be enough black children in better nurseries, and primary schools to pass the 11+ on there own merits but getting better results but right now and with no chance its not going to happen.

Why should grammar schools enrol more ethnic pupils especially if it is at the cost of a poor white kid whose dream was to go to that specific grammar school. 11+ is an absolutely fair system and many ethnic kids go on to pass and represent the grammar school i know this being a Pakistani who has gone to a private grammar school. As for people saying Blacks are lazy, thats just b/s it's bad parenting on their part as some don't push their kids early on in life so obviously when there older they are not going to have the focus and discipline to succeed in their studies. Blacks are just as able as any other race!