Why is it taboo to consider race and intellect correlate in the general population?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by cttp_ngaf
So you're saying that science is wrong? Then why are you using a computer, that's science right there. But you don't think it exists? POW!
There are only two possible conclusions:
1) You are racist
or
B) You're a religious nutjob.
There are only two possible conclusions:
1) You are racist
or
B) You're a religious nutjob.
No, science doesn't say anything. Science isn't an entity, it's a method. You're quoting an experiment which I assume has discovered that all brain begin life with the same large-scale structure (I do doubt there exists experiment that actually says anything like this). That's all it says. You're 'hahahaha, science has disproved racism!" conclusion is spurious bull****. To make that conclusion you have to assume that intelligence is linked solely to the large-scale structure of the brain and upbringing, and we have no evidence for that. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a reasonable argument in the fact that patients who've had the 2 halves of their brain disconnected tend to retain their intelligence. There will also doubtless be studies on children who've been brought up without birth parents so you can control genetics against environment.
The GCSE statistics for 2009 are interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/dec/15/gcse-statistics-free-school-meals-race-local-authorities-poverty
% 5 A-C
Indian 82.3
Pakistani 66.6
Bangladeshi 69.5
Chinese 88
Black Caribbean 62.9
Black African 69.8
White British 69.8
So Black Africans, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and White British all have fairly similar results, Black Caribbeans are slightly worse, Indians and Chinese a fair bit better.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/dec/15/gcse-statistics-free-school-meals-race-local-authorities-poverty
% 5 A-C
Indian 82.3
Pakistani 66.6
Bangladeshi 69.5
Chinese 88
Black Caribbean 62.9
Black African 69.8
White British 69.8
So Black Africans, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and White British all have fairly similar results, Black Caribbeans are slightly worse, Indians and Chinese a fair bit better.
It’s hard to tell because different people define intelligence in different ways… are you intelligent if you know a small amount on every subject or a lot on just a few? What if you cant even pass an 11+ on maths or English but know everything there is too know about science
Is somebody clever because they can hold a lot of information in a short period of time (like Alevel), or if they take longer to learn something but retain the information for a longer period of time (Like BTEC/Access courses)? Intelligence is too hard to define so we cant just say 1 race is more intelligent.
As for why is it taboo, Mainly because its slightly racist and stereotypical to say that LOL
Is somebody clever because they can hold a lot of information in a short period of time (like Alevel), or if they take longer to learn something but retain the information for a longer period of time (Like BTEC/Access courses)? Intelligence is too hard to define so we cant just say 1 race is more intelligent.
As for why is it taboo, Mainly because its slightly racist and stereotypical to say that LOL
Original post by JoMo1
No, science doesn't say anything. Science isn't an entity, it's a method. You're quoting an experiment which I assume has discovered that all brain begin life with the same large-scale structure (I do doubt there exists experiment that actually says anything like this). That's all it says. You're 'hahahaha, science has disproved racism!" conclusion is spurious bull****. To make that conclusion you have to assume that intelligence is linked solely to the large-scale structure of the brain and upbringing, and we have no evidence for that. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a reasonable argument in the fact that patients who've had the 2 halves of their brain disconnected tend to retain their intelligence. There will also doubtless be studies on children who've been brought up without birth parents so you can control genetics against environment.
Go and vote for the BNP, you sick bastard.
Original post by cttp_ngaf
Go and vote for the BNP, you sick bastard.
Oh good Lord. Want to go ahead and highlight anything racist in anything I've said? I mean actually picking out the words I've used, not just paraphrasing what you think I've said.
Original post by JoMo1
Oh good Lord. Want to go ahead and highlight anything racist in anything I've said? I mean actually picking out the words I've used, not just paraphrasing what you think I've said.
You said that blacks should be enslaved and sold in shops like a box of cornflakes.
Original post by cttp_ngaf
You said that blacks should be enslaved and sold in shops like a box of cornflakes.
bored.
Original post by juanmodesto
The GCSE statistics for 2009 are interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/dec/15/gcse-statistics-free-school-meals-race-local-authorities-poverty
% 5 A-C
Indian 82.3
Pakistani 66.6
Bangladeshi 69.5
Chinese 88
Black Caribbean 62.9
Black African 69.8
White British 69.8
So Black Africans, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and White British all have fairly similar results, Black Caribbeans are slightly worse, Indians and Chinese a fair bit better.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/dec/15/gcse-statistics-free-school-meals-race-local-authorities-poverty
% 5 A-C
Indian 82.3
Pakistani 66.6
Bangladeshi 69.5
Chinese 88
Black Caribbean 62.9
Black African 69.8
White British 69.8
So Black Africans, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and White British all have fairly similar results, Black Caribbeans are slightly worse, Indians and Chinese a fair bit better.
There's a theory behind this. I can't remember the details precisely, but basically the Indian and Chinese who we allow to immigrate here will be more successful kinds of people, and therefore more likely to be intelligent.
They are then more likely to have intelligent children as compared to other ethnicities who've lived in the country for more than a few generations, and so have relatively more normal distributions of intelligence.
And so we get these statistics.
Original post by DavidCraig
We can accept that physically black people are superior in some respects. Kenyans are genetically gifted with more endurance muscle fibre whilst Jamaicans are genetically gifted with more high twitch muscle fibre for sprinting.
If they are genetically superior then why haven't they always been the best? The British were the kings of middle distance in the 70's and 80's, but no one hypothesised that we were genetically superior. (Black superiority is apparently a perfectly normal thing to discuss. Double standards much?)
Before 2004 all of two Jamaicans had run sub-10, with a national record of 9.96. Hell Britain had more sub-10 runners (Christie, Chambers and Gardener). Then in the space of 7 years Jamaica has 3 of the 4 fastest runners of all time. Does that make them genetically superior? No, it just means they have a golden generation, like what Britain enjoyed with Coe, Ovett, Cram, Cook etc.
Other things that should be looked at is environment. In Jamaica the schools athletic championship is THE event of the year.
In Britain no one gives a toss about school sprinting. When I was in yr 11 I ran the 400m in 53.15 seconds (pretty good considering I had only been training for a year), and our quartet had a relay pb of 3 min 29, but my school didn't send us to a single borough meet due to 'financial constraints'. At meets for my club, the only spectors were the competitors and coaches, and maybe a few parents.
I like to think with the right support at that age I could be running sub 48 seconds by now.
Original post by Friar Tuck
There's a theory behind this. I can't remember the details precisely, but basically the Indian and Chinese who we allow to immigrate here will be more successful kinds of people, and therefore more likely to be intelligent.
They are then more likely to have intelligent children as compared to other ethnicities who've lived in the country for more than a few generations, and so have relatively more normal distributions of intelligence.
And so we get these statistics.
They are then more likely to have intelligent children as compared to other ethnicities who've lived in the country for more than a few generations, and so have relatively more normal distributions of intelligence.
And so we get these statistics.
Ive heard a similar theory, but it was more on the lines that immigrants from poor backgrounds (the post-ww2 Indians and Pakistani's who came here in the '60s and 70's) tend to put all their resouces into ensuring that their children have a good education and thus do better in life than they did. The academically successful asians in Britain today are the second and third generation of these immigrants. One hundred years down the line when they are as spoilt and self-entitled as everyone else, their average grades will start leveling towards the norm.
Original post by DavidCraig
Go watch the Olympics.
Take a look at the NFL.
Take a look at basketball etc....
Take a look at the NFL.
Take a look at basketball etc....
This is one thing that bugs me no end. The Olympics consists of MORE than just track. Sports is a much wider spectrum than NFL and Basketball. What about field events, boxing, football (soccer), rugby, cricket, rowing, sailing, cycling, motor sports, archery, martial arts, weight lifting ect.?
race intelligence exists.
broadly speaking, the oriental peoples are on average the most intelligent and the africans are the least intelligent. thats what the data says anyway.
broadly speaking, the oriental peoples are on average the most intelligent and the africans are the least intelligent. thats what the data says anyway.
It's very difficult to measure intelligence accurately as different people will have different aptitudes for different kinds of things. Likewise with sporting achievement. And it isn't only genetics, but the interaction with the environment is likely to be very important in determining both mental and physical capabilities - so a whole host of social factors are introduced. It can be difficult to disentangle the two.
I also fail to see how it's helpful to start making sweeping generalisations about certain ethnic groups. How could that information be used for any meaningful purpose? Even if people of my race were shown to be slightly more or less intelligent, or more or less athletic than others, you wouldn't be able to assume that to be true of me.
I also fail to see how it's helpful to start making sweeping generalisations about certain ethnic groups. How could that information be used for any meaningful purpose? Even if people of my race were shown to be slightly more or less intelligent, or more or less athletic than others, you wouldn't be able to assume that to be true of me.
Original post by humanrights
race intelligence exists.
broadly speaking, the oriental peoples are on average the most intelligent and the africans are the least intelligent. thats what the data says anyway.
broadly speaking, the oriental peoples are on average the most intelligent and the africans are the least intelligent. thats what the data says anyway.
Social factors are important. In the UK people of African descent are more likely to live in poorer areas and be educated at worse schools. And many parents of Chinese origin seem particularly forceful in encouraging a culture of hard work and strong aspiration in their children. These sorts of things can start to explain racial inequalities.
Original post by DeeWave
Social factors are important. In the UK people of African descent are more likely to live in poorer areas and be educated at worse schools. And many parents of Chinese origin seem particularly forceful in encouraging a culture of hard work and strong aspiration in their children. These sorts of things can start to explain racial inequalities.
im talking about intelligence levels in the continents themselves. not in britain.
looking at south east asia and looking at africa, one would have to draw the conclusion that the oriental peoples are more intelligent than africans.
whats the evidence to suggest otherwise?
also, isn't being forceful about working hard a sign of higher intelligence?
Original post by DavidCraig
Just doing some biology revision and my textbook actually states that genetics affect intelligence.
However, intelligence is continous (quantitative) data that is effected by polygenes- many genes have a cumulative effect. It does say environment is the most important factor though, akin to height. People are genetically predetermined to reach certain heights. However, lack of food (read education) is more important.
However, intelligence is continous (quantitative) data that is effected by polygenes- many genes have a cumulative effect. It does say environment is the most important factor though, akin to height. People are genetically predetermined to reach certain heights. However, lack of food (read education) is more important.
quantative or qualitative given many measures of 'intelligence' or 'intellect' are culturally biased and include indirect discrimination based on cultural and social norms across different populations ?
i suspect that you'd find maths in a mixed base 12 / base 20 system which is written using base 10 notation quite hard to master , but to anyone in the Uk who was of junior school age or older in 1971 it'll be extremely easy ( it's pre decimalisation coinage ) 6
I'd say primarily because it's false and obviously very offensive.
I think it is more likely that any perceived inequality in intelligence is more environmental. As others have said black Caribbean people especially have very dysfunctional families, usually a single mother. Being from a Caribbean family myself education in my opinion is not valued highly enough. Luckily I have a great mother who forced me to study, study study (have a life when you're successful lol). Even now about to start my PhD and I have ignorant family members who argue 'what's the point, no one will ever employ you etc... (from the NMW job queue) I despair!
Well obviously some races (or tribes within races) are better at some things than others.
Examples:
Pigmy indians will not be very good at the 100 metres due to their short little legs.
The gurkhas will be best at mountain climbing due to their genetic adaption.
White people will be bad at sports involving trecking through the desert because they will get sunburnt.
Brains
Of course it would be unlikely if unlike our noses, eyes, livers, blood type, skin, head shape, hair curliness, spleen, genital size, resistance to disease our brains are all exactly the same between racial groups.
But if it was found for example that one racial group had a better visual memory (like aboriginal australians) whilst another group had better tracking ability (like bushmen) or another group had better large-scale organisational ability (like europeans/asians???) then this might upset other racial groups.
I mean as a white person we get the worst deal as we don't come out top for the highest IQ or for the biggest willies!! haha
Examples:
Pigmy indians will not be very good at the 100 metres due to their short little legs.
The gurkhas will be best at mountain climbing due to their genetic adaption.
White people will be bad at sports involving trecking through the desert because they will get sunburnt.
Brains
Of course it would be unlikely if unlike our noses, eyes, livers, blood type, skin, head shape, hair curliness, spleen, genital size, resistance to disease our brains are all exactly the same between racial groups.
But if it was found for example that one racial group had a better visual memory (like aboriginal australians) whilst another group had better tracking ability (like bushmen) or another group had better large-scale organisational ability (like europeans/asians???) then this might upset other racial groups.
I mean as a white person we get the worst deal as we don't come out top for the highest IQ or for the biggest willies!! haha
Why people get offended by stats which represent solid facts about an ethnic group is beyond me, encourage and become more pro-active within your community to help make a difference rather than get embarassed and shy about it. As a Pakistani when teaching young kids and speaking at community functions it's stats like these that make the difference as it makes the Pakistani community take notice and forces the parents to take a greater role in their childrens education especially the female representatives in their family. It's also encouraging to know that every year Pakistanis have been increasing by around 5%, these facts are crucial to enable us to track our progress as a community in order to make for a more sucessful Britain.
I think in the next 5-10 years we should definitely be seeing Pakistanis in the high 70s- low 80s although it may be a big increase to some people what these stats don't represent is the under-achieiving females in our community but as the younger generation decides to do away with the backward philosophy some Pakistanis adhere too by just solely educating and concentrating on the boys education and instead focus on both we as a Pakistani will make a better showing on these statistics chart and show our true potential, thankfully i've seen a fair amount of Pakistanis now focusing a lot more on the girls education which inevitably help our community along with Britain whom both will reap the rewards, from my own experience and in my own family Pakistani girls are the high achievers, my own family alone around 8 out of a possible 12 have got above 7A* at gcse while the boys hover around 7A*-5As range with only two doing better than that.
I think in the next 5-10 years we should definitely be seeing Pakistanis in the high 70s- low 80s although it may be a big increase to some people what these stats don't represent is the under-achieiving females in our community but as the younger generation decides to do away with the backward philosophy some Pakistanis adhere too by just solely educating and concentrating on the boys education and instead focus on both we as a Pakistani will make a better showing on these statistics chart and show our true potential, thankfully i've seen a fair amount of Pakistanis now focusing a lot more on the girls education which inevitably help our community along with Britain whom both will reap the rewards, from my own experience and in my own family Pakistani girls are the high achievers, my own family alone around 8 out of a possible 12 have got above 7A* at gcse while the boys hover around 7A*-5As range with only two doing better than that.
(edited 13 years ago)
I think you should be able to discuss this and propose sincere theories without being called a racist, over sensitivity and fear of proving something you hope isn't true should not halt human advancement and understanding. However I do worry any such study could just become the ultimate propaganda weapon for racists depending on the outcome.
I think it's silly to just say of course it has no effect unless you are a scientist and truly understand what you are talking about. That's a pure assumption and history teaches us assumptions are often wrong.
N.B - I have no idea whether race affects intelligence.
I think it's silly to just say of course it has no effect unless you are a scientist and truly understand what you are talking about. That's a pure assumption and history teaches us assumptions are often wrong.
N.B - I have no idea whether race affects intelligence.
Put a Kenyan in London and on a Diet of Tesco and McDonalds then see how fast he runs. Race does not = intelligence its to do with socio economic status of your parents and opportunities available
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- The line between a fetish and a preference
- hypothesis testing PMCC
- Help with History Nea Coursework
- Indian men
- What would civilisation look like if the average IQ was 150?
- Finally, a study to show what we all knew anyway.
- Goldsmiths MSc Forensic Psychology interview presentation
- I feel like im invisible
- Do Japanese/ Korean girls like Indian/ Pakistan/ Bangladesh guys?
- Why are you concerned about migration?
- Anyone else not get boycotting brands or even countries trend?
- Honest review of Birmingham City University (BCU)
- 50,000 women in Gaza are pregnant.
- As maths
- Mitigating Circumstances.
- do girls like brown guys
- Suicides at Oxford
- What A levels should I pick for medicine
- British/European boys, would you date a Latina girl?
- Hi! What's a great R squared value?
Latest
Trending
Last reply 23 hours ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 1 day ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 1 day ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 week ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 23 hours ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 1 day ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 1 day ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 week ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
