british man beaten to death by dubai police: why do brits even visit dubai?
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I agree OP, why get beaten by police in Dubai when you can do the same in good old Blighty! 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/14/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/14/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates
Don't know why people are bringing up Tomlinson and De Menzes. Tomlinson died of natural causes. De Menzes died because he was thought to be a terrorist about to blow up a train and ran away from the police instead of co-operating.
Here, it is alleged that a tourist was beaten to a pulp and denied food or water for 6 days. Obviously we don't know all the facts but it seems far far more serious.
Its been proven that Tomlinson died of natural causes. He had a serious liver problem, fluid in his bloodstream and was five times over the drink-drive limit. There is no evidence of significant internal damage caused by the fall. The policeman was out of line but it doesn't fit the evidence to say he killed him.
Here, it is alleged that a tourist was beaten to a pulp and denied food or water for 6 days. Obviously we don't know all the facts but it seems far far more serious.
Original post by No Future
I agree OP, why get beaten by police in Dubai when you can do the same in good old Blighty!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/14/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/14/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates
Its been proven that Tomlinson died of natural causes. He had a serious liver problem, fluid in his bloodstream and was five times over the drink-drive limit. There is no evidence of significant internal damage caused by the fall. The policeman was out of line but it doesn't fit the evidence to say he killed him.
Original post by Inzamam99
There is no proof he was beaten to death yet. He choked on his own vomit apparently- we'll find out after the investigation what has happened.
Don't hold your breath. There is no transparency or accountability in the UAE (much like Japan, to be fair).
Original post by jacketpotato
Don't know why people are bringing up Tomlinson and De Menzes. Tomlinson died of natural causes.
Its been proven that Tomlinson died of natural causes. He had a serious liver problem, fluid in his bloodstream and was five times over the drink-drive limit. There is no evidence of significant internal damage caused by the fall. The policeman was out of line but it doesn't fit the evidence to say he killed him.
Its been proven that Tomlinson died of natural causes. He had a serious liver problem, fluid in his bloodstream and was five times over the drink-drive limit. There is no evidence of significant internal damage caused by the fall. The policeman was out of line but it doesn't fit the evidence to say he killed him.
It has not "been proven" that Ian Tomlinson died of natural causes, that was the conclusion given by one pathologist (of three) whose medical practice is under question.
The cause of Tomlinson's death is under question. If you read the inquest blog, the details are there. Please do not make statements that are not evidence based.
Two out of three doctors say Tomlinson died of internal bleeding. The one who says it was natural causes is suspended from medical practice.
Furthermore, Tomlinson was an alcoholic. The fact that his blood levels of alcohol were high would not necessarily kill him. Long term drug addicts build a tolerance to their drug of choice and being over "normal" parameters is rather meaningless. I agree that from the evidence available, he was in bad health, but the cause of death by two pathologists is internal bleeding.
The first pathologist, Dr Freddy Patel gave conclusion of death by natural causes.
The second and third pathologists, Dr Nat Cary and Dr Kenneth Shorrock disagreed with Dr Patel's findings and gave a conclusion of internal bleeding.
Dr Patel has been suspended twice since September, on grounds of misconduct and dishonesty and was close to being struck off by the GMC.
the disciplinary panel found Patel's 2002 reports on the death of Sally White – the first victim of the "Camden ripper" Anthony Hardy – were "irresponsible, not of the standard expected of a competent forensic pathologist and liable to bring the medical profession into disrepute".
Patel decided that White, a 31-year-old sex worker, had died of natural causes despite blood staining her clothing, bedding and a wall at Hardy's flat. Patel said she had died of a heart attack during consensual sex. This discouraged a police investigation that might have saved two later victims of Hardy, an earlier hearing was told.
Patel will not be allowed to practise until his case is reviewed and another panel is satisfied he has identified and remedied deficiencies, proven he has attended retraining courses, including on medical ethics, shadowed other pathologists and provided a satisfactory plan that might allow a supervised return to practise.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/31/g20-pathologist-freddy-patel-suspended
(edited 13 years ago)
I'd probably be more prepared to go to Dubai than South Africa, my teacher is South African and her stories about the crime there is shocking, she used to walk around with a gun strapped to her waist and was taken hostage along with her co-workers at a university where she worked. She cousin was also stripped naked, tied with wire and beaten to death with a hammer in his own home.
If this boys poor death has shown anything, its that police in Dubai take the law very seriously, even if sometimes it goes too far. From what I've been told about South Africa, the police are corrupt and many people pay private companies to do the job the police are supposed to do.
If this boys poor death has shown anything, its that police in Dubai take the law very seriously, even if sometimes it goes too far. From what I've been told about South Africa, the police are corrupt and many people pay private companies to do the job the police are supposed to do.
for the fake rolexs
Original post by No Future
It has not "been proven" that Ian Tomlinson died of natural causes, that was the conclusion given by one pathologist (of three) whose medical practice is under question.
The cause of Tomlinson's death is under question. If you read the inquest blog, the details are there. Please do not make statements that are not evidence based.
Two out of three doctors say Tomlinson died of internal bleeding. The one who says it was natural causes is suspended from medical practice.
Furthermore, Tomlinson was an alcoholic. The fact that his blood levels of alcohol were high would not necessarily kill him. Long term drug addicts build a tolerance to their drug of choice and being over "normal" parameters is rather meaningless. I agree that from the evidence available, he was in bad health, but the cause of death by two pathologists is internal bleeding.
The first pathologist, Dr Freddy Patel gave conclusion of death by natural causes.
The second and third pathologists, Dr Nat Cary and Dr Kenneth Shorrock disagreed with Dr Patel's findings and gave a conclusion of internal bleeding.
Dr Patel has been suspended twice since September, on grounds of misconduct and dishonesty and was close to being struck off by the GMC.
the disciplinary panel found Patel's 2002 reports on the death of Sally White – the first victim of the "Camden ripper" Anthony Hardy – were "irresponsible, not of the standard expected of a competent forensic pathologist and liable to bring the medical profession into disrepute".
Patel decided that White, a 31-year-old sex worker, had died of natural causes despite blood staining her clothing, bedding and a wall at Hardy's flat. Patel said she had died of a heart attack during consensual sex. This discouraged a police investigation that might have saved two later victims of Hardy, an earlier hearing was told.
Patel will not be allowed to practise until his case is reviewed and another panel is satisfied he has identified and remedied deficiencies, proven he has attended retraining courses, including on medical ethics, shadowed other pathologists and provided a satisfactory plan that might allow a supervised return to practise.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/31/g20-pathologist-freddy-patel-suspended
The cause of Tomlinson's death is under question. If you read the inquest blog, the details are there. Please do not make statements that are not evidence based.
Two out of three doctors say Tomlinson died of internal bleeding. The one who says it was natural causes is suspended from medical practice.
Furthermore, Tomlinson was an alcoholic. The fact that his blood levels of alcohol were high would not necessarily kill him. Long term drug addicts build a tolerance to their drug of choice and being over "normal" parameters is rather meaningless. I agree that from the evidence available, he was in bad health, but the cause of death by two pathologists is internal bleeding.
The first pathologist, Dr Freddy Patel gave conclusion of death by natural causes.
The second and third pathologists, Dr Nat Cary and Dr Kenneth Shorrock disagreed with Dr Patel's findings and gave a conclusion of internal bleeding.
Dr Patel has been suspended twice since September, on grounds of misconduct and dishonesty and was close to being struck off by the GMC.
the disciplinary panel found Patel's 2002 reports on the death of Sally White – the first victim of the "Camden ripper" Anthony Hardy – were "irresponsible, not of the standard expected of a competent forensic pathologist and liable to bring the medical profession into disrepute".
Patel decided that White, a 31-year-old sex worker, had died of natural causes despite blood staining her clothing, bedding and a wall at Hardy's flat. Patel said she had died of a heart attack during consensual sex. This discouraged a police investigation that might have saved two later victims of Hardy, an earlier hearing was told.
Patel will not be allowed to practise until his case is reviewed and another panel is satisfied he has identified and remedied deficiencies, proven he has attended retraining courses, including on medical ethics, shadowed other pathologists and provided a satisfactory plan that might allow a supervised return to practise.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/31/g20-pathologist-freddy-patel-suspended
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the other pathologists have given evidence yet.
Even without the post-mortems, I think this debate is somewhat sterile. The video shows him being pushed - no more, no less. To describe it as a "killing" is completely misleading.
Original post by jacketpotato
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the other pathologists have given evidence yet.
Even without the post-mortems, I think this debate is somewhat sterile. The video shows him being pushed - no more, no less. To describe it as a "killing" is completely misleading.
Even without the post-mortems, I think this debate is somewhat sterile. The video shows him being pushed - no more, no less. To describe it as a "killing" is completely misleading.
Except he was walking away and was pushed from behind, falling on his face because his hands were (defensibly) in his pockets.
dude that's manslaughterOriginal post by Chazzer66
Except he was walking away and was pushed from behind, falling on his face because his hands were (defensibly) in his pockets. dude that's manslaughter
dude that's manslaughterHis hands weren't in his pockets because he was being defensive, he was stone-drunk. I'm not seeing the manslaughter: if I pushed someone on a night-out and they died of a heart attack, I don't think that would be man-slaughter.
Original post by jacketpotato
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the other pathologists have given evidence yet.
Even without the post-mortems, I think this debate is somewhat sterile. The video shows him being pushed - no more, no less. To describe it as a "killing" is completely misleading.
Even without the post-mortems, I think this debate is somewhat sterile. The video shows him being pushed - no more, no less. To describe it as a "killing" is completely misleading.
I don't believe they have, but they carried out examinations on Tomlinson's body.
I did not describe it as a killing, but from reading the evidence given at the inquest, an unnecessary use of force from a police officer which contributed to Tomlinson's death. He was in bad health, but he was hit hard enough to cause bruising by a baton, bitten by police dogs and pushed hard, enough to cause bruising to his forehead after hitting the ground.
He died within 50 minutes of being pushed to the ground; two pathologists concluded of internal bleeding and one of natural causes. The latter being Dr Freddy Patel who has been suspended from medical practice.
(edited 13 years ago)
Ouch. A pretty gruesome way to die for having sex on the beach.
Original post by jacketpotato
His hands weren't in his pockets because he was being defensive, he was stone-drunk. I'm not seeing the manslaughter: if I pushed someone on a night-out and they died of a heart attack, I don't think that would be man-slaughter.
What does drunkeness have to do with hands being in pockets?
The fact that he had his back to police, with his hands in his pockets suggests he was not a threat to the police and suggests that the push from police was unnecessary, whether drunk or sober.
Two out of three pathologists concluded that he died of internal bleeding, not a heart attack. The one who suggested natural causes/heart attack has been suspended from medical practice due to dishonesty and substandard medical practice in previous cases where he claimed natural causes, where the death was a murder victim.
(edited 13 years ago)
Its funny how white people living in a secure, almost safe all the time country etc, when little 1 event takes place every 5 years or so, THEY HYPE IT UP LIKE OH MY GOD, WE'RE SO INNOCENT ETC ETC, but why dont you ever think about those poeple in other countries dying everyday and ITS NOT THEIR FAULT THEIR INNOCENT TOO like iraq, pakistan, afghanistan, palestine, middle east area (due to whats happening right now), africa the list goes on, but no one ever talks about those people living in danger everyday of their lives, even though their innocent and its not their fault. Seriously i think white have NO idea what "hard life" really means. Boyfriend problems and mum shouting and grounding them seems to be the most of their worries.
Well its all the typical bull****. Brits always go overseas to holiday destinations and get piss drunk not giving a **** about local authorities, morals, culture or law. As soon as they get arrested for it, they make the news and the media over here always over - dramatize the event.
The fact remains that if you are going overseas, respect local laws and customs and do not behave rowdy and a nuisance because in most places there is less freedom of speech and more harsh laws. It is a fact of life that you have to accept. Never mess with the law in any foreign countries or you will be dealt with swiftly and in some cases brutally.
If you can't accept this fact, then stay in Britain!
The fact remains that if you are going overseas, respect local laws and customs and do not behave rowdy and a nuisance because in most places there is less freedom of speech and more harsh laws. It is a fact of life that you have to accept. Never mess with the law in any foreign countries or you will be dealt with swiftly and in some cases brutally.
If you can't accept this fact, then stay in Britain!
Original post by jacketpotato
Don't know why people are bringing up Tomlinson and De Menzes. Tomlinson died of natural causes. De Menzes died because he was thought to be a terrorist about to blow up a train and ran away from the police instead of co-operating.
Here, it is alleged that a tourist was beaten to a pulp and denied food or water for 6 days. Obviously we don't know all the facts but it seems far far more serious.
Its been proven that Tomlinson died of natural causes. He had a serious liver problem, fluid in his bloodstream and was five times over the drink-drive limit. There is no evidence of significant internal damage caused by the fall. The policeman was out of line but it doesn't fit the evidence to say he killed him.
Here, it is alleged that a tourist was beaten to a pulp and denied food or water for 6 days. Obviously we don't know all the facts but it seems far far more serious.
Its been proven that Tomlinson died of natural causes. He had a serious liver problem, fluid in his bloodstream and was five times over the drink-drive limit. There is no evidence of significant internal damage caused by the fall. The policeman was out of line but it doesn't fit the evidence to say he killed him.
No, the two other pathologists (the ones not struck off the register) concluded he died from internal bleeding.
I think De Menezes would have been avoided if the police didn't cock it up, didn't they loose sight of who they were following then assume it was De Menezes just because he started running?
Original post by humanrights
south africa is another compound destination much loved by naive brits.
why do brits go on these kind of holidays?
why do brits go on these kind of holidays?
Are you actually retarded? South Africa is nothing like Dubai, except for maybe summer time temperatures, guessing you've never been there?
Original post by Inzamam99
There is no proof he was beaten to death yet. He choked on his own vomit apparently- we'll find out after the investigation what has happened.
Precisely, we don't even know the whole story yet.
I love going to Dubai
Original post by humanrights
whats the point of visiting dubai? its what is called a compound holiday-- the tourist literally holidays in a compound surrounded by no go zones. south africa is another compound destination much loved by naive brits.
why do brits go on these kind of holidays?
metro.co.uk/news/860855-british-tourist-beaten-to-death-in-dubai-police-custody
why do brits go on these kind of holidays?
metro.co.uk/news/860855-british-tourist-beaten-to-death-in-dubai-police-custody
South Africa is fine. It's just got a bad rep. It's only dangerous for the paraniod tourists and racist Afrikaners who think every black/coloured person will steal their car.
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