Is this sexual abuse?

Scroll to see replies

*******s. Ethics require a level of conceptual understanding that is predicated by a basic amount of metaphysical awareness. They're not inherent, nor are they "drummed in" from an early age- parents can try, but ethics don't come that easily. Children shoplifting don't necessarily have a way to know it's wrong. As for smoking and having sex, who's to say that actually is immoral?

Too easy.

"Piaget studied many aspects of moral judgment, but most of his findings fit into a two-stage theory. Children younger than 10 or 11 years think about moral dilemmas one way; older children consider them differently. As we have seen, younger children regard rules as fixed and absolute. They believe that rules are handed down by adults or by God and that one cannot change them. The older child's view is more relativistic. He or she understands that it is permissible to change rules if everyone agrees. Rules are not sacred and absolute but are devices which humans use to get along cooperatively.

At approximately the same time--10 or 11 years--children's moral thinking undergoes other shifts. In particular, younger children base their moral judgments more on consequences, whereas older children base their judgments on intentions. When, for example, the young child hears about one boy who broke 15 cups trying to help his mother and another boy who broke only one cup trying to steal cookies, the young child thinks that the first boy did worse. The child primarily considers the amount of damage--the consequences--whereas the older child is more likely to judge wrongness in terms of the motives underlying the act (Piaget, 1932, p. 137)."

and...

"Level I: Pre-conventional morality. While infants are essentially amoral, very young children are moral in a rather primitive way, as described by the two preconventional stages.

Stage 1. We can call this the reward and punishment stage. Good or bad depends on the physical consequences: Does the action lead to punishment or reward? This stage is based simply on one's own pain and pleasure, and doesn't take others into account.
Stage 2. This we can call the exchange stage. In this stage, there is increased recognition that others have their own interests and should be taken into account. Those interests are still understood in a very concrete fashion, and the child deals with others in terms of simple exchange or reciprocity: "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine." Children in this stage are very concerned with what's "fair" (one of their favorite words), but are not concerned with real justice.

Level II: Conventional morality. By the time children enter elementary school, they are usually capable of conventional morality, although they may often slip back into preconventional morality on occasion. But this level is called conventional for a very good reason: It is also the level that most adults find themselves in most of the time!
Stage 3. This stage is often called the good boy/good girl stage. The child tries to live up to the expectations of others, and to seek their approval. Now they become interested motives or intentions, and concepts such as loyalty, trust, and gratitude are understood. Children in this stage often adhere to a concrete version of the Golden Rule, although it is limited to the people they actually deal with on a day-to-day basis.
Stage 4. This is called the law-and-order stage. Children now take the point of view that includes the social system as a whole. The rules of the society are the bases for right and wrong, and doing one's duty and showing respect for authority are important.

Level III: Post-conventional morality. Some adolescents and adults go a step further and rise above moralities based on authority to ones based on reason.
Stage 5. The social contract stage means being aware of the degree to which much of so-called morality is relative to the individual and to the social group they belong to, and that only a very few fundamental values are universal. The person at this level sees morality as a matter of entering into a rational contract with one's fellow human beings to be kind to each other, respect authority, and follow laws to the extent that they respect and promote those universal values. Social contract morality often involves a utilitarian approach, where the relative value of an act is determined by "the greatest good for the greatest number."
Stage 6. This stage is referred to as the stage of universal principles. At this point, the person makes a personal commitment to universal principles of equal rights and respect, and social contract takes a clear back-seat: If there is a conflict between a social law or custom and universal principles, the universal principles take precedence."

According to this theory many adults never actually develop past the morality typical of 10-11 year olds. Do we only hold grown adults accountable for their crimes if they are shown to be sufficiently developed?

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 41

FrigidSymphony

Original post by TickTockBoom

actual argument!

Yay, something interesting. I'll get back to this when I finish watching Alex Salmond on Question Time.

Reply 42

faber niger

Go to see a therapist or something, if you feel that you need to, but don't get the guy done for something he did when he was 11. The concept of "sexual abuse" is next to meaningless at that age.

Original post by TickTockBoom

Do we only hold grown adults accountable for their crimes if they are shown to be sufficiently developed?

In my eyes, that's an argument for taking a progressive stance towards adult criminals -- not for acting troglodytically towards children.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 43

SuperiorHuman

Original post by TickTockBoom

When I was about 5 one of the older girls at primary school took me to the toilets and took down both of our trousers and "showed me what sex was". It basically involved touching public areas and like thrusting back and forth as far as I remember. I don't think it was abuse really, I just think she had seen something she shouldn't have at that age. Still didn't like it very much though. I think she can only have been about 8 or 9 though, 11 or 12 is different. Its old enough to know better, and it sounds like what he did to you was quite serious.

If you are male, that must have been fun :sexface:

Reply 44

Anonymous #5

You have to decide what you want to do about it. I reported an incident to the police when I was 16, went through interviews and everything and in the end they phoned me up to say that they didn't have enough evidence to do anything. It just messed me up really and my school work suffered for nothing. It sounds to me like he was experimenting but maybe you would find it helpful to see a counsellor or someone, just to lift a weight of your shoulders.

How old are you now?

Original post by SuperiorHuman

If you are male, that must have been fun :sexface:

I'm female and it wasn't. I remember feeling vaguely ashamed about the whole thing tbh, although I think I got over it pretty quickly.

Reply 47

SayonaraSamm

Original post by Anonymous

Honestly?? This is actually really common!

I know a guy whose sister slept with him when he was about 12 and her 17. She did it to ''see what it was like''.

My best friend and her cousin brother did anal when she was about 5 or 6. Her cousin brother was 12. No joke.

My cousin brother tried to show me what "love game" (sex) was 10 years ago when I was 6 and him 5. He said his friend showed him at school. I stopped it as soon as I realised wtf he was doing.

My cousin sister tried doing it with me when I was about 8 years old. I knew what she was doing and didn't let it happen. She was about 12/13 at the time.

There's a hell of a lot more but these are the few I can only think of now.

Please keep anon or delete!

Why am I hearing Duelling Banjos as I read this?

Reply 48

shadow99

It's not sexual abuse, it's 2 little kids messing about.

Reply 49

rivda

I think you need some closure, but reporting the whole thing to the police might be a little drastic, especially since there's no evidence, unfortunately.
OP, what would be your relationship with your brother as of now? Is it distant, a normal sibling relationship, etc? If everything is cordial, I would suggest confronting your brother about it, or talking to a close family member.

Reply 50

silverbolt

Original post by TickTockBoom

When I was robbing sweets I certainly knew it was wrong. I definitely knew it was wrong to hurt someone else, particularly a younger child. I just think you have an image of the mental capacities of an 11 year old that is really more representative of a child of 7 or 8. Do you actually have any contact with kids of that age?

I think this is a tricky one. It is abuse in the black and white side of it however to know what you are doing is one thing when it comes to stealing sweets is one thing, but in regards to acts of a sexual nature when puberty has only just begin to kick in is something else. Most parents will teach thier kids that you do not steal - how many parents will turn round and explain about fingering and what constitutes abuse and what doesnt?

Knowing its wrong is one thing, realising the implications of said wrong is something else. I very much doubt an 11 year old is going to fully understand the kind of emotional damage this can do to a 7 year old. Especially as they dont understand puberty themselves. As much as they might try to act it 11 year old are NOT adults.

Kids do wrong things, they climb trees, they play in roads, they pick up broken glass. They dont always see that the results of that could be that they break a leg, get run over, or cut themselves. they know its wrong but all too often they dont know why.

OP i very much doubt you are going to find a court who will hold a young man accountable for actions that occurred when he was 11 and there is no proof. If it is bothering you though then i think you should seek help

Reply 51

francescafrancesca

Why is everyone saying report it? What good is that? What he did was wrong but does anyone really think saying "oh when I was 7 years old an 11 year old fingered me" is going to get him convicted? There is no evidence. He was young. It was so long ago, the defense team are just going to say how can you be sure it was him? etc.

Unless he is being accused of sexually abusing minors now, your story has no weight. He's probably a completely normal member of society, that's just a dark moment in the past. Reporting it will only cause trouble for you both. You need to go to counselling etc

Reply 52

username196545

Original post by Agent Smirnoff

If you look carefully: it is another anon user. Someone else has posted anon.

Erm, so? I was addressing the person who posted..

Reply 53

Aj12

Original post by Anonymous

It was over 11 years ago so nothing has been done about it and I doubt anything ever will. I don't even think he would be able to be convicted of it since it happened when he was a child?

Over 10 you could well see a conviction.

Reply 54

imperial maniac

Don't report him to the police but I suggest you see a therapist or something if it's still affecting you.

Reply 55

becilouise

It is more common than you think... It is classed as sexual abuse, but i doubt it would be worth doing anything now seen as it was so many years ago. It's something that will effect you for your life though. You can get help for stuff like this, if you feel you won't get over it and it does seriously effect you...
If anyone ever wants to message me they can...

Reply 56

SpicyStrawberry

Unfortunately as it happened when you were a young child it's very unlikely anything can come of it if you reported it to the police as there is no proof but your experience. It's such an awful position you're in and I'm terribly sorry to hear about it, but from a legal perspective I don't know if there is anything that can be done to punish that guy for doing that to you as it was a very long time ago.

Yes he was a child, but he could have been held criminally liable as he was old enough to understand what he was doing was wrong. If you are having problems in day-to-day life trying to overcome this all I can really suggest is you see your GP and talk to your parents about this. Keeping feelings bottled up doesn't do any good.

Reply 57

Gamewizard

Original post by Anonymous

Girl, but I don't see how that matters? :s-smilie:

No, it doesnt sorry but just wanted to know for my own knowledge

Reply 58

Anonymous #1

Original post by GAguy

That's rubbish. He was 4-5 years younger than you.
When I remember back at that time, we used to play among ourselves but the siblings would join in as well. And many of them were that much younger, still we didn't really treat them much different.
Everyone here is screaming rape, but none actually knows the proper situation. I would look at this advice really carefully.

What I mean is, for example, did he force you to do it? Or did it just go something like: "blabla, touch me here" "ok" "I touch you there" "blabla" at his age he was definitely new to his sexuality, so maybe he thought this was natural.

On the other hand, if he actually forced you to do it, that's different. In that case he knew he was doing something wrong.

He was 4-5 years older than me not younger. It was the "blah blah let me do this" but I was a bit weirded out by it and said I didn't want to but he wouldn't let go. I wouldn't say he forced me but he didn't let it go when I said no. That's the reason why I'm so confused about this, because I don't know whether he saw it as natural or not. At the time he told me he was my boyfriend, so I went along with it thinking that's what boyfriends do, and when he didn't return until a few weeks later I was upset, until it happened again.
Basically, it wasn't forced but it was pressured. I'm unsure whether he knew what he was doing. Not being able to say it is sexual abuse, and being unsure what it is is really affecting me.

Reply 59

Anonymous #1

Original post by FrigidSymphony

An 11 year old should be too young to have a sense of causal cognition. See a therapist, if it's bothering you, but you can't really blame someone that young.