What do you think should be done about disruptive students in lessons?
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Original post by Young Spade
I can understand what you're saying, but should we just "give up" on those kids who are like this? Keep in mind that our environment and nurturing shapes our surroundings, effectively putting the blame on this type of behavior on the parents and the place the students grow up in.
Schools do their utmost to help these kids, but if they aren't willing to co-operate, even though they have been handed many chances then **** 'em.
It's pretty easy to go to school, get what you need to done, and go off to college when you're living in a comfortable environment around people who have been doing this for generations, however everyone doesn't have that luxury.
Are you suggesting I have that luxury? Because I don't and don't assume anything about me.
It is true that they have the choice to just sit down, shut up, and learn as you have suggested, however just because they don't doesn't mean their mentally less capable than everyone else; the problem is the environment and whatever occurrences in their life that happen that persuade them to think this way.
Well, they should not get everything their own way and should not disrupt other people in the process.
If they want help, they should shut up and ask for it.
If they continue to mess about IRRESPECTIVE IF THEY NEED THE ACADEMIC HELP OR NOT - they should not receive it.
Original post by Young Spade
I can understand what you're saying, but should we just "give up" on those kids who are like this? Keep in mind that our environment and nurturing shapes our surroundings, effectively putting the blame on this type of behavior on the parents and the place the students grow up in.
It's pretty easy to go to school, get what you need to done, and go off to college when you're living in a comfortable environment around people who have been doing this for generations, however everyone doesn't have that luxury.
It is true that they have the choice to just sit down, shut up, and learn as you have suggested, however just because they don't doesn't mean their mentally less capable than everyone else; the problem is the environment and whatever occurrences in their life that happen that persuade them to think this way.
It's pretty easy to go to school, get what you need to done, and go off to college when you're living in a comfortable environment around people who have been doing this for generations, however everyone doesn't have that luxury.
It is true that they have the choice to just sit down, shut up, and learn as you have suggested, however just because they don't doesn't mean their mentally less capable than everyone else; the problem is the environment and whatever occurrences in their life that happen that persuade them to think this way.
Let's not pretend that half the "schools" in our country are educational establishments. A lot of them are just day-jails to keep the disinterested youth off the streets and the "teachers" are nothing but glorified babysitters.
Original post by im so academic
Schools do their utmost to help these kids, but if they aren't willing to co-operate, even though they have been handed many chances then **** 'em.
Are you suggesting I have that luxury? Because I don't and don't assume anything about me.
Well, they should not get everything their own way and should not disrupt other people in the process.
If they want help, they should shut up and ask for it.
If they continue to mess about IRRESPECTIVE IF THEY NEED THE ACADEMIC HELP OR NOT - they should not receive it.
Are you suggesting I have that luxury? Because I don't and don't assume anything about me.
Well, they should not get everything their own way and should not disrupt other people in the process.
If they want help, they should shut up and ask for it.
If they continue to mess about IRRESPECTIVE IF THEY NEED THE ACADEMIC HELP OR NOT - they should not receive it.
I'm not just referring to schools to help because they can only do so much (or they will only do so much, for that matter).
I'm not suggesting you in particular, I was just stating that to whoever fit that description. My apologies for you thinking that though, I have a tendency to state things without directly targeting a particular audience.
It isn't that simple for them to just "ask for help". Som people don't know how nor do they know who they would even ask. Taking that argument further, some students attend schools that could give a crap about their education, mostly focusing on the students who actually "get it" and want to be there, who want to learn.
I'n not completely disagreeing with you, I'm just stating that although there are a LOT of people who don't value their education like they should (IMO of course), you can't just state that they all deserve to... well be punished because of it.
A lot of people are ignorant to the ramifications of living conditions and environments of others. Living in america it's easy to forget this as well. I have been around a large amount of people in a wide range of educational and financial backgrounds so, from my experiences, I'm not so ignorant of this.
Original post by arabcnesbit
Original post by arabcnesbit
Let's not pretend that half the "schools" in our country are educational establishments. A lot of them are just day-jails to keep the disinterested youth off the streets and the "teachers" are nothing but glorified babysitters.
Amen to that; I just chose to leave that out in an effort to reduce variables and retain the overal "idea" of the argument. But yes... it's a damn shame how... horrible (for lack of a better word) or education is (pre-university for the most part anyway).
I have learned more in this one year of being here at my Uni than the aggregation of 12 years of schooling before.
Original post by im so academic
Don't care? Then those people fully deserve the consequences, even if they "don't care".
But for that to happen, they need to respect education.
But for that to happen, they need to respect education.
ahhh your back, iv missed you :')
im not even going to bother TRYING to explain, if youv not been in that postition then your not gonna understand are you.
the worst thing you can do is kick them out of school.
when i was on self destruct i loved getting excluded. but looking back it did me no good, neither did isolation...
i mean a person that doesnt like school, saying "your excluded for the day, dont bother coming in" those words are heaven to them...
but the best thing you could do for them is say "yes we could excluded you, but were not going to, were gonna work with you and sort everything out"
Original post by PonchoKid
ahhh your back, iv missed you :')
im not even going to bother TRYING to explain, if youv not been in that postition then your not gonna understand are you.
the worst thing you can do is kick them out of school.
when i was on self destruct i loved getting excluded. but looking back it did me no good, neither did isolation...
i mean a person that doesnt like school, saying "your excluded for the day, dont bother coming in" those words are heaven to them...
im not even going to bother TRYING to explain, if youv not been in that postition then your not gonna understand are you.
the worst thing you can do is kick them out of school.
when i was on self destruct i loved getting excluded. but looking back it did me no good, neither did isolation...
i mean a person that doesnt like school, saying "your excluded for the day, dont bother coming in" those words are heaven to them...
I'm not stupid.
OF COURSE someone who doesn't like school will think exclusions are great for them; they don't have to go to school! Well done Captain Sherlock (!!!)
but the best thing you could do for them is say "yes we could excluded you, but were not going to, were gonna work with you and sort everything out"
True that happens, but you don't know my situation - there are some bastards out there who do not co-operate, even though they have not been excluded (it's actually hard to exclude a pupil - the government are trying to make it easier) who will NOT CO-OPERATE with the school.
You think some Year 8 who has no respect for the school/education will give a **** when the school says to him "we're going to work with you and sort everything out". If they don't about their education, what's to say they'll care about that?
Don't assume anything about me.
There are people - regardless of what the school does - will NOT co-operate with them.
If that solution is so perfect, why are there still disruptive people in school? Why are still thousands of pupils missing school each day? (Don't ask for sources - do a simple Google search - it's all there).
Trust me, if the words "it's OK, we're going to sort everything out" was so perfect - school behaviour would be fine.
It isn't.
There are disruptive children in state schools and "working with them" will help some, but not all.
The final solution is to permanently exclude these people. Schools don't do PE after just one incident - it takes an absolute amount of time/effort to PE. In fact schools get FINED THOUSANDS for permanently excluding pupils - so it is a last resort; schools are reluctant to do that.
But it IS needed if the bastard kid isn't willing to co-operate the school.
Why try to help one kid who doesn't want it and is not appreciating the help, when it's hindering the educational attainments of a whole class or even more?
And no, don't play the "family background" card with me. There are people in third world countries with even worse family backgrounds than people in the UK, they are absolutely impoverished (as opposed to relatively impoverished) and they still show a damn more sign of respect than some people in this country.
Oh and don't use the "mental disability" card on me. E.g. people with ADHD or whatever. Having a mental disability DOES NOT GIVE ANYONE the right to mess up another person's education.
Why the hell should the education system even take sympathy for people who are excluded?
Remember, taxpayers were paying for the education you wasted when you were on the "path to self-destruction". But no, you and others did not recognise that.
Enough is enough; there is a lot of wastage within the education system, and that includes certain individuals who would be better off on the dole for a few years and realising that actually, education is not something to be trashed upon, but used wisely.
(And yes, you've heard me, I'm more or less advocating people to go on the dole if they don't respect education - I'd rather that than them even wasting more money whilst being educated).
Teachers are leaving because of badly behaved kids, the taxpayers are getting pissed off seeing the taxes that they've paid doing no good to society, headteachers are getting desperate and doing whatever they can to stop these bastard kids, social services cannot cope, usually the families do not give a ****, the police are at their wit's end, and the kids themselves are just failed. At the end of the day, you fail yourself.
There ARE people out there to help these kids in the education system.
But for ****'s sake, if they are not willing to co-operate - what is the solution?
Original post by im so academic
I'm not stupid.
OF COURSE someone who doesn't like school will think exclusions are great for them; they don't have to go to school! Well done Captain Sherlock (!!!)
True that happens, but you don't know my situation - there are some bastards out there who do not co-operate, even though they have not been excluded (it's actually hard to exclude a pupil - the government are trying to make it easier) who will NOT CO-OPERATE with the school.
You think some Year 8 who has no respect for the school/education will give a **** when the school says to him "we're going to work with you and sort everything out". If they don't about their education, what's to say they'll care about that?
Don't assume anything about me.
There are people - regardless of what the school does - will NOT co-operate with them.
If that solution is so perfect, why are there still disruptive people in school? Why are still thousands of pupils missing school each day? (Don't ask for sources - do a simple Google search - it's all there).
Trust me, if the words "it's OK, we're going to sort everything out" was so perfect - school behaviour would be fine.
It isn't.
There are disruptive children in state schools and "working with them" will help some, but not all.
The final solution is to permanently exclude these people. Schools don't do PE after just one incident - it takes an absolute amount of time/effort to PE. In fact schools get FINED THOUSANDS for permanently excluding pupils - so it is a last resort; schools are reluctant to do that.
But it IS needed if the bastard kid isn't willing to co-operate the school.
Why try to help one kid who doesn't want it and is not appreciating the help, when it's hindering the educational attainments of a whole class or even more?
And no, don't play the "family background" card with me. There are people in third world countries with even worse family backgrounds than people in the UK, they are absolutely impoverished (as opposed to relatively impoverished) and they still show a damn more sign of respect than some people in this country.
Oh and don't use the "mental disability" card on me. E.g. people with ADHD or whatever. Having a mental disability DOES NOT GIVE ANYONE the right to mess up another person's education.
Why the hell should the education system even take sympathy for people who are excluded?
Remember, taxpayers were paying for the education you wasted when you were on the "path to self-destruction". But no, you and others did not recognise that.
Enough is enough; there is a lot of wastage within the education system, and that includes certain individuals who would be better off on the dole for a few years and realising that actually, education is not something to be trashed upon, but used wisely.
(And yes, you've heard me, I'm more or less advocating people to go on the dole if they don't respect education - I'd rather that than them even wasting more money whilst being educated).
Teachers are leaving because of badly behaved kids, the taxpayers are getting pissed off seeing the taxes that they've paid doing no good to society, headteachers are getting desperate and doing whatever they can to stop these bastard kids, social services cannot cope, usually the families do not give a ****, the police are at their wit's end, and the kids themselves are just failed. At the end of the day, you fail yourself.
There ARE people out there to help these kids in the education system.
But for ****'s sake, if they are not willing to co-operate - what is the solution?
OF COURSE someone who doesn't like school will think exclusions are great for them; they don't have to go to school! Well done Captain Sherlock (!!!)
True that happens, but you don't know my situation - there are some bastards out there who do not co-operate, even though they have not been excluded (it's actually hard to exclude a pupil - the government are trying to make it easier) who will NOT CO-OPERATE with the school.
You think some Year 8 who has no respect for the school/education will give a **** when the school says to him "we're going to work with you and sort everything out". If they don't about their education, what's to say they'll care about that?
Don't assume anything about me.
There are people - regardless of what the school does - will NOT co-operate with them.
If that solution is so perfect, why are there still disruptive people in school? Why are still thousands of pupils missing school each day? (Don't ask for sources - do a simple Google search - it's all there).
Trust me, if the words "it's OK, we're going to sort everything out" was so perfect - school behaviour would be fine.
It isn't.
There are disruptive children in state schools and "working with them" will help some, but not all.
The final solution is to permanently exclude these people. Schools don't do PE after just one incident - it takes an absolute amount of time/effort to PE. In fact schools get FINED THOUSANDS for permanently excluding pupils - so it is a last resort; schools are reluctant to do that.
But it IS needed if the bastard kid isn't willing to co-operate the school.
Why try to help one kid who doesn't want it and is not appreciating the help, when it's hindering the educational attainments of a whole class or even more?
And no, don't play the "family background" card with me. There are people in third world countries with even worse family backgrounds than people in the UK, they are absolutely impoverished (as opposed to relatively impoverished) and they still show a damn more sign of respect than some people in this country.
Oh and don't use the "mental disability" card on me. E.g. people with ADHD or whatever. Having a mental disability DOES NOT GIVE ANYONE the right to mess up another person's education.
Why the hell should the education system even take sympathy for people who are excluded?
Remember, taxpayers were paying for the education you wasted when you were on the "path to self-destruction". But no, you and others did not recognise that.
Enough is enough; there is a lot of wastage within the education system, and that includes certain individuals who would be better off on the dole for a few years and realising that actually, education is not something to be trashed upon, but used wisely.
(And yes, you've heard me, I'm more or less advocating people to go on the dole if they don't respect education - I'd rather that than them even wasting more money whilst being educated).
Teachers are leaving because of badly behaved kids, the taxpayers are getting pissed off seeing the taxes that they've paid doing no good to society, headteachers are getting desperate and doing whatever they can to stop these bastard kids, social services cannot cope, usually the families do not give a ****, the police are at their wit's end, and the kids themselves are just failed. At the end of the day, you fail yourself.
There ARE people out there to help these kids in the education system.
But for ****'s sake, if they are not willing to co-operate - what is the solution?
there are lots of things in place, you wont know or even have heard about any of them, garunteed. social services arnt the only people involved, so is the youth service (who i am curently working with due to my placement at uni) things can be put in placed to help people stay in education. and eventualy they get the best out of it, if i wasnt helped, or my friends, and we didnt want any help at the time, then none of us would be where we are today....
things CAN be done, and none of them mean kicking people out, but not many people know about what goes on behind closed doors. iv learnt a heck of a lot whilst on placement, and if i get the placement i want to get next year id like to sit down with you and talk to you about it all.
but you probably wont listen, as were both on other ends of a stick...
Are we talking about within compulsory schooling, or at university?
Original post by PonchoKid
there are lots of things in place, you wont know or even have heard about any of them, garunteed. social services arnt the only people involved, so is the youth service (who i am curently working with due to my placement at uni) things can be put in placed to help people stay in education. and eventualy they get the best out of it, if i wasnt helped, or my friends, and we didnt want any help at the time, then none of us would be where we are today....
Fair enough, you accepted the help. But you've got to realise there are people out there who do not give a ****.
things CAN be done, and none of them mean kicking people out, but not many people know about what goes on behind closed doors. iv learnt a heck of a lot whilst on placement, and if i get the placement i want to get next year id like to sit down with you and talk to you about it all.
What things? Go on. Cut the crap and tell me the solutions - directly.
but you probably wont listen, as were both on other ends of a stick...
Stop making assumptions about me.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
Original post by Emaemmaemily
Are we talking about within compulsory schooling, or at university?
Imo, disruptive students who are at university should be kicked out immediately.
Why come to university to be disruptive?
No excuses.
Original post by im so academic
Imo, disruptive students who are at university should be kicked out immediately.
Why come to university to be disruptive?
No excuses.
Why come to university to be disruptive?
No excuses.
Well yes, I do get very annoyed at people who talk through lectures. But they tend to not be tollerated anyway.
But they shouldn't be kicked out unless they do something major, after all they've paid to be there...
It's a fine line.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
Original post by Emaemmaemily
Well yes, I do get very annoyed at people who talk through lectures. But they tend to not be tollerated anyway.
But they shouldn't be kicked out unless they do something major, after all they've paid to be there...
It's a fine line.
But they shouldn't be kicked out unless they do something major, after all they've paid to be there...
It's a fine line.
Paying to go to an institution =/= the right to do what you want
Which university do you go to?
Because I guarantee you I can find your university's Code of Conduct and will give you proof that they should be kicked out.
If you don't follow the rules, good bye!
It's actually quite discouraging that you go to a university that cares more about the money than the education it provides and the nature of its students.
That type of behaviour would not happen in an Oxbridge lecture.
Original post by im so academic
Paying to go to an institution =/= the right to do what you want
Which university do you go to?
Because I guarantee you I can find your university's Code of Conduct and will give you proof that they should be kicked out.
If you don't follow the rules, good bye!
It's actually quite discouraging that you go to a university that cares more about the money than the education it provides and the nature of its students.
That type of behaviour would not happen in an Oxbridge lecture.
Which university do you go to?
Because I guarantee you I can find your university's Code of Conduct and will give you proof that they should be kicked out.
If you don't follow the rules, good bye!
It's actually quite discouraging that you go to a university that cares more about the money than the education it provides and the nature of its students.
That type of behaviour would not happen in an Oxbridge lecture.
I have said nothing about the UNIVERSITY thinking money is more important, I was discussing my own opinion.
Those people aren't tollerated, everything is fine.
Original post by im so academic
Fair enough, you accepted the help. But you've got to realise there are people out there who do not give a ****.
What things? Go on. Cut the crap and tell me the solutions - directly.
Stop making assumptions about me.
What things? Go on. Cut the crap and tell me the solutions - directly.
Stop making assumptions about me.
like iv said i didnt give a s**t and i would take help for 3 or 4 years!
schools have whats called CAF (probably google that one)
they also have inclusions teams.
connexions are involved
many have councilors working with the school
...
i said that, because youv not listened to me so far.
Original post by PonchoKid
like iv said i didnt give a s**t and i would take help for 3 or 4 years!
Err, what are you saying here?
schools have whats called CAF (probably google that one)
they also have inclusions teams.
connexions are involved
many have councilors working with the school
...
they also have inclusions teams.
connexions are involved
many have councilors working with the school
...
Yes I know - but again, what if the students don't co-operate?
How do you solve that?
i said that, because youv not listened to me so far.
I have, but you have not directly answered my question:
"What if the students do not co-operate with inclusion teams/connexions/police/social services/councillors/psychologists etc?"
(Can you see how much money is used up?)
Drawn and quarter the little dullards
Original post by im so academic
Imo.
You come across with the imagine that "learning" in your class is imposable?
You give the impression that everyone should be equal and have the same life's so they are able to learn the same way.
you seem to be idealist , come back to reality please. Everyone has had bad students in their class, and have to cope with it.
You ask why should we cope with it? cause for crying out loud life aint easy
What would you rather have in class? 1 person learning and 20 other students doing nothing?
cause that is pathetic, what kind of society would we be living in if that happened.
Other statistics for Maths and English is at high time low. So instead of helping these people leave with their maths and English you would rather throw them out of school just to benefit you?
I do myself like "learning" but i would not want to improve my learning to sacrifices other peoples learning. Sometimes its best to help people learn.
You sit their on your computer/laptop bitching about this disrupted people and yet you never question what they have been through to get like this?
Yes it may not be your problem but when did you get better than them?
(IMO of course)
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by im so academic
Err, what are you saying here?
Yes I know - but again, what if the students don't co-operate?
How do you solve that?
I have, but you have not directly answered my question:
"What if the students do not co-operate with inclusion teams/connexions/police/social services/councillors/psychologists etc?"
(Can you see how much money is used up?)
Yes I know - but again, what if the students don't co-operate?
How do you solve that?
I have, but you have not directly answered my question:
"What if the students do not co-operate with inclusion teams/connexions/police/social services/councillors/psychologists etc?"
(Can you see how much money is used up?)
its not a process where you click your fingers and all of a sudden the pupil cooperates. its a process, and with work the process works, and the pupil will cooperate.
that process can take a month, or 5 years, but at the end of it, if you have someone thats come out with GCSEs then its a triumph.
if you dont try you wont succeed.
my process took 3 or 4 years for me to cooperate with school and to listen and turn myself around...
i know it doesnt work with everyone, one of my best friends got kicked out of school, but school helped get her onto a college course and no shes a beautician in a salon, and really good at her job too...
In my classes those who don't listen and are disruptive were sat at the back and would just chat until they actually realised that they needed school and would shut up! 9 times out of 10 it worked and for that last 10% they didn't disrupt the rest of us because they were at the back and no one could see them! xxx
Bring back the ****ing rod.
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