What do you think should be done about disruptive students in lessons?

I'm not here to give you evidence of children changing, that sort of statistics don't exist... I'm speaking from personal experience...
As you seem to be "are you telling me my education hasn't been hindered?" - 1. Maybe your school didn't do it right at all, and were ****? 2. Aren't you at Oxbridge? Didn't seem to hinder you much.

Look up what the current policies are... Not difficult. I can't be bothered to sit here explaining everything to you when you don't listen anyway.

If you have no evidence that it makes economic sense then your argument has no basis. You say that the students do change with right kind of help but I don't see it, the ones who behaved badly when they were younger (Got into fights etc) were the ones dealing drugs or breaking property when they are older. At my school the badly behaved ones had so many allowances made for them, they were temporarily removed from class, but their behaviour got worse; do you not see that the gains the be made from attempting to turn these people into productive citizens is outweighed by the cost and effort to get them to that stage which would be better spend elsewhere.

physical discipline for those who are too stupid to follow simple rules.

Well clearly we have differnet experiences. I saw a lot of children mature and change, so it seemed very beneficial.
My argument DOES have basis... Since when do you get to define what makes my argument viable? I'm not talking simply about economics, I'm talking about social benefits to society too, and also what is "right"... Clearly we have completely different views on things, because I don't see money as the ONLY reason to do something.

So you think teaching a chav a bit of PSE is going to turn him into nice chap? If a chav breaks the law instead of blaming society for failing him, put him in a chain gang until he's learned his lesson.

Interestingly my old form tutor ran a reward system for good behaviour (Turning up on time or correct uniform I can't remember) and this failed, but he replaced the system with a punishment system for bad behaviour, this worked far quicker. Perhaps you should bear this in mind when you form your little child psychology based Utopia

Personal experience does not equate evidence that what you are saying is correct.

From my personal experience, you are wrong.

So until you give me some hardcore data, I will not believe you.

Yes, I have looked up the current policies. Don't ****ing patronise me, I replied back with a link yesterday with the Coalition reforms.

To reiterate, they're making exclusions/expulsions easier - the system has got out of hand that it HAS to resort to these measures.

Don't bother with the ad hom comments "you don't listen" - it does not negate me arguments and just shows you cannot justify your own opinions.

Don't insult me. I've already said I support dicipline and punishment, just not being expelled with NO chance to reform how you act. Your point actually proves mine... Put a bit of punishment in there and THEN guide them the right way and it'll work wonders with changing their ways.




Well the same can be said of you then... I don't believe you either. Glad we sorted that out.

I say "you don't listen", not to justify my opinions, but because I keep repeating the same thing as you clearly don't read it.
For example, you repeat "so they should be allowed to destroy other people's education?" When I've clearly said MANY times that no, I don't believe that... They should be removed and punished... But given the chance to get better.

It doesn't work that you have a slightly naughty 12 year old child, and they stay that way forever... Children mature and grow up into adults, especially if you give them the CHANCE to.

You talk about social benefits-enlighten me, what do you mean by social benefits?

Well clearly we have differnet experiences. I saw a lot of children mature and change, so it seemed very beneficial.
My argument DOES have basis... Since when do you get to define what makes my argument viable? I'm not talking simply about economics, I'm talking about social benefits to society too, and also what is right... Clearly we have completely different views on things, because I don't see money as the ONLY reason to do something.

The benefit of not HAVING all of these chavs, and yobs, and uneducated ignorant pigs living in this country. Actually educating them properlly will stop a lot of children BECOMING this way.
People become like this because of 1. their uprbringing and 2. their education

Again, I'm referring to sociology. But I really don't want to explain it much further now.
Btw, please stop writing to me again when you already have and I'm typing a response... It gets our conversations muddled.

So you're blaming **** behaviour at the fact that "they are children, they are naive"?

The benefit of not HAVING all of these chavs, and yobs, and uneducated ignorant pigs living in this country. Actually educating them properlly will stop a lot of children BECOMING this way.
People become like this because of 1. their uprbringing and 2. their education

Again, I'm referring to sociology. But I really don't want to explain it much further now.
Btw, please stop writing to me again when you already have and I'm typing a response... It gets our conversations muddled.

Morality is subjective and therefore corrupt, so 'what is right' is not really a viable reason.

Actually, she is well within her rights to dispute the basis of your argument, since if you have no logical or rational premise, your opinion is not well informed and essentially, you mean nothing. Only if you can convey a sensible, reasoned argument can you actually engage in a debate at any level short of turning to fisticuffs.

Personal experience requires justification, do you know a sizeable majority of the current makeup of the State sector pupil base? Probably not, therefore statistical evidence is required to back your point, or atleast a reputable study link.

Money is objective, it is uncorruptable, as soon as you start trying to dictate your OWN morality, you enforce it on others, this is moral dictatorship and goes against the essence of Freedom, you are sacrificing the potential of those who are willing for those who won't.

I have bolded the problem for you, the problems always start before school, parental mentality tends to have a HUGE impact on the child in question.

My opinion IS based on logic, and therefore IS well informed... I've given many different kinds of arguments... From economics, sociology and psychology...

As I said, yes upbringing has a lot to do with it... But children are still impressionable, growing up and maturing... There is still room to help them change from going down the same path their parents did. I've seen it happen, so it can be done.

I already know that morality is subjective, I spent all of last week debating that on another page.
I thought that's what we were doing here, discussing our opinions?? There is no clear definite proof that either side of this argument is "right" or "wrong", so we are discussing arguments.
My opinion IS based on logic, and therefore IS well informed... I've given many different kinds of arguments... From economics, sociology and psychology...
Lots of differnet reasons that I believe what I do, and I know that will always remain a BELIEF with not evidence to prove it is compeltely true, but the same can be said of their argument too.

That's what this forum is... Discussing our opinions.




As I said, yes upbringing has a lot to do with it... But children are still impressionable, growing up and maturing... There is still room to help them change from going down the same path their parents did. I've seen it happen, so it can be done.

Oh come on! If it were as simple as "to give them help" we wouldn't have this problem.

My God. Don't blame retarded 15 year olds' behaviour on their upbringing and their education. What about themselves?

Correlation does not equal causation - I take it would fail Statistics tbh.