WJEC PY4 21st June 2011 exam

Yeah! I'm not sure if other teachers in my college gave their classes model answers, but mine didn't really.. In the first year, for the first set of exams, we were given what might be more of a model answer but generally not in A2 really. I guess it would be really annoying, having put the effort in then others are getting credit for it.. How've you been finding the course in general? And what topics are you doing for PY4? There's a thread on here somewhere that a lot of us that did the A2 last year used to post in and there's some useful resources in there that we posted up etc :smile:

I'm really enjoying the course, A2 is much more interesting than AS I've found! It's certainly helped me decide I definitely want to study Psychology at uni but I've heard it's nothing like the A-level - much more challenging :tongue:

We're currently doing the Controversies section as well as Memory, Forensic and Abnormal :smile:

I'll have a look at the thread for it, it sounds helpful thank you!

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 21

mel0n

17

Original post by SpicyStrawberry

I'm really enjoying the course, A2 is much more interesting than AS I've found! It's certainly helped me decide I definitely want to study Psychology at uni but I've heard it's nothing like the A-level - much more challenging :tongue:

We're currently doing the Controversies section as well as Memory, Forensic and Abnormal :smile:

I'll have a look at the thread for it, it sounds helpful thank you!

It was helpful! They're the exact 4 that I did :nooo:

haha!

Reply 22

wellpastmybedtime

Original post by SpicyStrawberry

When in my class and I or someone else writes an A-grade essay my teacher has the tendency to give it out to the whole class to learn and regurgitate which makes me a bit frustrated. They ask if they can give it out, but I would feel like a mean idiot if I said no! Maybe it's my fault really, but it's a difficult position. !

I can understand how you feel however, as a teacher who has done precisely the same thing I can tell you that the driving force is largely an SMT ( thats senior management - head teachers, principals etc. who basically have a teachers head and job on the line if they fail to deliver the grades ( target usually being 100% pass and 90£ at A* - B grades at A level) . Now I know you wont feel sorry for teachers having to do that but to be honest most of the students we teach would never get any grade left to their own abilities. if I don't cut my own workload down by using students answers I have to write all the model answers myself ( which I have on occasions done).

However the debate that ensues from much of this is an educational and political one , not one about teaching per se.

I!
just wonder sometimes why a small amount of members of the class should put in all the work while the rest of the class doesn't do much and just learns what everyone else has written? !

Those larger number of students ( putting it bluntly since I am here and not in my college classroom) are thick. They really shouldn't be taking A levels but they are and as a teacher I have to ensure they pass by whatever methods it takes. It aint fair ( tell me about it) but thats how it is. Gone are the old days when an exam pass reflected an ability or modicum of intelligence and universities could select students based on that.

!
That's the criticism I have with this exam - it's harder to distinguish between good and bad candidates if the whole class has been given the same essays and information to learn, it doesn't really prepare for university where that wouldn't be allowed. After thinking about it it is probably just the way my college has taught it, it does explain why most of the students leave with A/B grades!!

Indeed it does. As I said, I do exactly what your teachers seem to be doing for reasons I outlined - I would lose my job if I didn't and someone else who wouldn't care about you and wouldn't be willing to answer you here would come and do it. I love teaching. I care about my classes. I want them all to do as well as they can. To do that I do whatever it takes.

Maybe to be honest it would be far better if we didn't teach so closely and students were allowed to fail but that isn't the way the current education system, works. Loads of students complain when they don't do well ( take a look here after exam results come out!) and often the teachers are described as " rubbish".
I interpret that as " My teachers are operating the exam mill process". In an ideal situation students would have grades normally distributed across all grade values, if there is a skew in the results ( in my own groups for example I have over 50% on grade A, most of the rest on grade B and a couple on grade C ( and my C grade students want to know why they didn't get grade B?! ( well they weren't bright enough to remember what they were told to learn and reguritate.... which put simply means there is still differentiation in the results at least at the very top and bottom .

As the teacher I have to answer that, not just to them but to my Principal and to the governors of the college. Its a hard job.

!
I understand that teachers have to put across the knowledge in any way they can which can include simply giving info out to learn and repeat in the exam because of time constraints and different levels of ability, fair enough, but it would probably be better if the students weren't spoon-fed everything and encouraged to do their own reading around to add bits to make their work more original. !

Did you complain when your teachers spoon fed you at GCSE? Or at SATS? I only teach A level. Most students arrive with me unable to do anything more than follow what I tell them. That is because spoon feeding begins well below my level of teaching . If I tried to " teach" , I would have a class full of U grades. That is precisely why I exam mill it. I don't have time to make up for all those pupils who have been spoon fed up to sixth form college.

!
I'm not saying you don't do that I'm sure with all your experience you are an excellent teacher :smile:

but that's just my experience at college.!

Mine too but I have to work in that system, Would that I did not. I get frustrated as well - and anxious and stressed and concerned when I know I am flogging a dead horse sometimes.

!
Maybe it's better if the class gets given out some notes and then they are given guidance on how to expand on them. I get that this makes people more likely to get worse grades if they don't do it, but as a teacher I'm guessing you can't force people to learn and do things in their own time, but that is their decision as adults if they want to do less work?!

Then many fail ( those who don't do the work, cant do the work, the most you mentioned earlier when you said it frustrates you that a few turn in A grade essays and the teacher gives them to everyone) and the teacher is reprimanded and sacked You get the picture? I wish I could do as you suggest. Would love to but it doesn't work that way. It frustrates me even more because when I was your age no teacher taught

!
I just don't see how it's fair that for this exam you can learn model answers you have not necessarily written yourself. It's nothing really on the teacher's part because I totally understand that with the time you are given to teach the syllabus there are little alternatives, but I'm sure you can understand it can be a bit frustrating!

There is still differentiation in how much work a student will put in and how much they can learn and reproduce anyway. Thats why in WJEC despite your protestations the average grade on PY 1 was a grade D ( is every year). There are easier boards than WJEC despite how it must feel.

I teach WJEC because it does reflect university level work to an extent. I teach it because I like it . I fight to get good results on it because there is differentiation. There is only so much you can teach students to regurgitate. and most forget anyway. Edexcel is the easiest by far ( my opinion).

Yes I understand the frustration. It frustrates me too.

Reply 23

SpicyStrawberry

18

Original post by wellpastmybedtime

[reply]

Yeah to an extent you're right about being spoon-fed at GCSE, but in my experience I've never been one to just be happy with what I've been given, I try to expand on it by doing my own research to make it a bit more original and make my teachers a bit happier!

I understand that not many/not everyone does this for whatever reasons but if you get into the habit of having everything done for you it doesn't bode well - it might be why everyone has a shock when they receive their first lot of exam results at AS level.

It's a shame teachers get in trouble for not getting a lot of their class high grades like this, I wasn't aware of that. It doesn't recognise students have varying levels of ability really. A good example at my college is the Physics dept, where 70% got U/E grades and the top grade was a C! Whether that is down to bad teaching or students not taking the initiative to revise is unknown but it is a bit worrying!

It's good you care for your students and I understand your frustration where you have to get the students these grades or you risk getting in trouble, meaning you have to basically do everything possible to get the less able students those grades. I really admire you for that, it's just a shame it needs to be done.

Certain people just aren't cut out for psychology or A-levels altogether - that shouldn't be the teacher's fault but it is nowadays with the way things are.

Reply 24

mel0n

17

We were told that teachers don't receive bonuses if they don't reach a certain target :erm:

sounds a bit different than getting into trouble as such.. And being spoon-fed at A Level doesn't help to recognise students who have varying abilities. My English teacher always said that he'll help us by giving us comments etc about our progress but getting a certain grade is up to us.. he won't do our work for us and get us an A grade when we're only capable of a C, he used to say, and I agree :yy:

The psychology department had a slightly similar principle it seems.

Reply 25

wellpastmybedtime

Original post by mel0n

We were told that teachers don't receive bonuses if they don't reach a certain target :erm:

sounds a bit different than getting into trouble as such.. And being spoon-fed at A Level doesn't help to recognize students who have varying abilities. My English teacher always said that he'll help us by giving us comments etc about our progress but getting a certain grade is up to us.. he won't do our work for us and get us an A grade when we're only capable of a C, he used to say, and I agree :yy:

The psychology department had a slightly similar principle it seems.

Bonus? Whats that? I haven't had a pay rise in two years, let alone a bonus.

I think what you will find that is is that your school ( not the teachers ) get paid on three points ( we call it the three R's - recruitment, retention and results). The college gets paid by

a) the number of students it recruits onto courses. This means that they generally relax rules in order to get students bottoms on seats and so money in the bank (£ follow individual students numbers) . This is why sometimes you find students on courses who may appear unsuited. It makes up numbers and thus dosh for the college budget.

b ) the college needs to retain ( keep) these students for a period of time - three periods in fact - and gets paid a second amount of dosh for doing that. So, as a teacher I have to stop students leaving the course ( which means I cannot discourage the lazy and limited ones so they go to other places) .
If I do not retain those students the college retention levels reduce and the stats means they do not get paid. Its not me note, its the college.

The argument given to me is, if you do not retain xyz numbers you will be removed and replaced with someone who will keep those students...... So I support them and spoon feed them even though I know its a hiding to nothing.

c) the college gets a final payment based on results which has to meet set targets. I have mentioned these before - those 100% pass rates and A and B grades . If we dont meet those in x % of the courses then the college loses its money and I get pushed .....

So you see its all about bonuses and carrots for the SMT and the college but sticks and beatings and no income for the poor chalk face teacher if they dont perform.

A lesson in life there.

I agree there are some teachers who refuse to play the " game". That puts more pressure on the rest because if the English or physics results screw up I have to make the pace for the overall pass rates to be maintained and the bonuses to be paid. Thats how it works. Not quite what you get told is it?

I know some depts that meet recruitment and retention and then once passed the audit date will remove students just ahead of the exams , thus students will find themselves dumped out or entered as "private candidates" ( you may not even realize its done to you) in order to beat the results targets. Its a bit of a game really. Several ways of playing it .

Reply 26

mel0n

17

Original post by wellpastmybedtime

Bonus? Whats that? I haven't had a pay rise in two years, let alone a bonus.

I think what you will find that is is that your school ( not the teachers ) get paid on three points ( we call it the three R's - recruitment, retention and results). The college gets paid by

a) the number of students it recruits onto courses. This means that they generally relax rules in order to get students bottoms on seats and so money in the bank (£ follow individual students numbers) . This is why sometimes you find students on courses who may appear unsuited. It makes up numbers and thus dosh for the college budget.

b ) the college needs to retain ( keep) these students for a period of time - three periods in fact - and gets paid a second amount of dosh for doing that. So, as a teacher I have to stop students leaving the course ( which means I cannot discourage the lazy and limited ones so they go to other places) .
If I do not retain those students the college retention levels reduce and the stats means they do not get paid. Its not me note, its the college.

The argument given to me is, if you do not retain xyz numbers you will be removed and replaced with someone who will keep those students...... So I support them and spoon feed them even though I know its a hiding to nothing.

c) the college gets a final payment based on results which has to meet set targets. I have mentioned these before - those 100% pass rates and A and B grades . If we dont meet those in x % of the courses then the college loses its money and I get pushed .....

So you see its all about bonuses and carrots for the SMT and the college but sticks and beatings and no income for the poor chalk face teacher if they dont perform.

A lesson in life there.

I agree there are some teachers who refuse to play the " game". That puts more pressure on the rest because if the English or physics results screw up I have to make the pace for the overall pass rates to be maintained and the bonuses to be paid. Thats how it works. Not quite what you get told is it?

I know some depts that meet recruitment and retention and then once passed the audit date will remove students just ahead of the exams , thus students will find themselves dumped out or entered as "private candidates" ( you may not even realize its done to you) in order to beat the results targets. Its a bit of a game really. Several ways of playing it .

Fair enough but I am sure that noone in the English department actually gave out EXTRA help to the students :dontknow:

We were all given the same material across the classes (I think the department preferred to work that way), meaning all of the teachers must have been refusing to play the 'game', as you refer to it. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, things probably are how you say! But generally I think at our college as long as we were meeting our 'average' grade it was fine. (They calculated our average by comparing our GCSE results to others who had ever sat the same exam and coming up with an average of what they had got).. How do colleges manage to enter students as private candidates? You have to be registered to a centre :s-smilie:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 27

wellpastmybedtime

Original post by mel0n

. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, things probably are how you say! But generally I think at our college as long as we were meeting our 'average' grade it was fine. (They calculated our average by comparing our GCSE results to others who had ever sat the same exam and coming up with an average of what they had got).. How do colleges manage to enter students as private candidates? You have to be registered to a centre :s-smilie:

It may depend on the college. You teachers seem lucky if what you say is correct ( I am not suggesting it is not) They obviously have a more realistic Senior Management. I work in a college which is considered " top" of the league tables
(wretched things) and I have to maintain that standard each year.

The notion of meeting " average" grades or " target grades " for students can change too. If I use the method you suggest ( which is fairly realistic by the way) my students (and I) would be set " target grades" two grades below what they are given ( and I have to attempt to meet in 80% of them). It is generally unacceptable in my college if the students do not meet one grade above their expected grade ( all adds grist to the mill and increases the "value added scores" - ie is allegedly how much better they do because I am a good teacher! Ha!)

The problem is a lot of my students are given unrealistic expectations ( and are not told about the way in which its calculated) in the supposition that if we tell them thats what we expect they will achieve it! Ha!

Then there are those with very modest GCSE's but very great aspirations. In my college students can negotiate their own grades with their tutors ( I am not their tutor I am academic staff and a teacher) who then relay to me that grade as a target. So I can have D grade students by " averages" wanting A grade by aspiration (believe me it happens). Sometimes they will get a B or C and congratulations to them for that , its a fête although they never realize how much of one and still complain they didn't get that A grade.

In my case I hit most of the targets most of the time ( except for those with very high expectations and grade C and D GCSE who want a grade A A level for example, but I have yet except in a very few cases to match the two grades above targets that are the general requirement. But I am good with stats and I too can massage figures. :smile:

Never be a teacher! So much for my worries.

Reply 28

mel0n

17

Original post by wellpastmybedtime

It may depend on the college. You teachers seem lucky if what you say is correct ( I am not suggesting it is not) They obviously have a more realistic Senior Management. I work in a college which is considered " top" of the league tables
(wretched things) and I have to maintain that standard each year.

The notion of meeting " average" grades or " target grades " for students can change too. If I use the method you suggest ( which is fairly realistic by the way) my students (and I) would be set " target grades" two grades below what they are given ( and I have to attempt to meet in 80% of them). It is generally unacceptable in my college if the students do not meet one grade above their expected grade ( all adds grist to the mill and increases the "value added scores" - ie is allegedly how much better they do because I am a good teacher! Ha!)

The problem is a lot of my students are given unrealistic expectations ( and are not told about the way in which its calculated) in the supposition that if we tell them thats what we expect they will achieve it! Ha!

Then there are those with very modest GCSE's but very great aspirations. In my college students can negotiate their own grades with their tutors ( I am not their tutor I am academic staff and a teacher) who then relay to me that grade as a target. So I can have D grade students by " averages" wanting A grade by aspiration (believe me it happens). Sometimes they will get a B or C and congratulations to them for that , its a fête although they never realize how much of one and still complain they didn't get that A grade.

In my case I hit most of the targets most of the time ( except for those with very high expectations and grade C and D GCSE who want a grade A A level for example, but I have yet except in a very few cases to match the two grades above targets that are the general requirement. But I am good with stats and I too can massage figures. :smile:

Never be a teacher! So much for my worries.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/schooltables/2010/alevels/colleges mine is sort of up there too :ninja:

it was about 6th at one point, but it's gone down a few now :getmecoat:

And yeah I think some people at my college did that too! I mean our target grades were calculated.. so, say, someone was put down as averaging a C overall.. but then they would set their target at a B or an A, but this would always be at the discretion of the tutor because targets were set during a tutor-pupil meeting. Generally they were more concerned with us meeting our average than our target though I think.

And hahahaha, thanks for the advice, considering that I've considered becoming one :ninja:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 29

*rainbows*

OP

Hey everyone if you need help on Foreniscs, Levels of consciouness or Relationships i will try to help :smile:

or if anyone has any resources for these topicswould alos be great :smile:

Reply 30

*rainbows*

OP

How is everybody feeling about this exam ?

Reply 31

SpicyStrawberry

18

Original post by *rainbows*

How is everybody feeling about this exam ?

I'm feeling pretty confident about it, I did a mock yesterday and got an A so that has reassured me a bit! The exam is very different though - not in the same classroom and in a cold exam hall :tongue:

Forensics is my favourite topic! How did you do when you took the exam? :smile:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 32

Haz-07

Hey everybody :smile:

Im doing Memory, Forensic, Abnormal and controversies.. I've got about 14 essays of my essays done and at an A grade level and the rest still refining..so I'm Glad to help people if they need guidance :smile:

Reply 33

Haz-07

So has anyone started revising for this exam yet or still on the essay stage? :confused:

Reply 34

JoviSoph

I'm incredibly nervous for the exam, I always thought PY2 was an insane amount of info to remember, but just sitting here now looking through all my PY4 notes, I'm beginning to think this tops it! And the fact that I got a D first time round in PY2 isn't helping my confidence... I've currently got an A in PY3, B in PY2 and C in PY1... So I'm currently trying to work out what I'm going to need in PY4 for a B or C overall... Gahh, I just don't know how I'm going to get this all into my head, so many names and dates for every single topic, and we haven't even FINISHED controversies yet, with only two weeks left in school! I've got the WJEC A2 book, I had the AS book last year and it's what got me my B in the PY2 resit! Hoping I can use this one to pull off some major revision, but seriously, I just don't know how I'm going to do this! *flails* :frown:

Reply 35

The Cello Ninja

Original post by JoviSoph

I'm incredibly nervous for the exam, I always thought PY2 was an insane amount of info to remember, but just sitting here now looking through all my PY4 notes, I'm beginning to think this tops it! And the fact that I got a D first time round in PY2 isn't helping my confidence... I've currently got an A in PY3, B in PY2 and C in PY1... So I'm currently trying to work out what I'm going to need in PY4 for a B or C overall... Gahh, I just don't know how I'm going to get this all into my head, so many names and dates for every single topic, and we haven't even FINISHED controversies yet, with only two weeks left in school! I've got the WJEC A2 book, I had the AS book last year and it's what got me my B in the PY2 resit! Hoping I can use this one to pull off some major revision, but seriously, I just don't know how I'm going to do this! *flails* :frown:

Don't panic!!!!!!! (I am such a hypocrite :tongue:

). I make pair cards, on one I put the name of a person, then on the other I put what they did, end up with like 30 or more pairs, then I have to match them up! I match them every few days, and eventually it sticks! (or did for PY2). We aren't told told to learn any dates! What topics are you doing? We haven't finished yet either! Good luck! :smile:

Reply 36

JoviSoph

Original post by The Cello Ninja

Don't panic!!!!!!! (I am such a hypocrite :tongue:

). I make pair cards, on one I put the name of a person, then on the other I put what they did, end up with like 30 or more pairs, then I have to match them up! I match them every few days, and eventually it sticks! (or did for PY2). We aren't told told to learn any dates! What topics are you doing? We haven't finished yet either! Good luck! :smile:

Ooh, now I like the sound of that method! Might give that a go this week, I like visual things like that, although at this stage I'm desperate for any ideas lol! We're doing controversies, memory, forensics and... Something else! Sleep... Something?! Haha yes I'm actually that useless that I don't have a clue what we're studying :confused:

Reply 37

The Cello Ninja

Original post by JoviSoph

Ooh, now I like the sound of that method! Might give that a go this week, I like visual things like that, although at this stage I'm desperate for any ideas lol! We're doing controversies, memory, forensics and... Something else! Sleep... Something?! Haha yes I'm actually that useless that I don't have a clue what we're studying :confused:

Haha, oh dear!! :tongue:

I'm sure you'll be fine, we've got a while until the exam. What other subjects do you do?