The Arsenal Society VIII

That's my fear. Or more specifically, Man City (Tottenham will run out of steam). Liverpool have less money (and more problems) than they say they have.

That's my fear. Or more specifically, Man City (Tottenham will run out of steam). Liverpool have less money (and more problems) than they say they have.

I read this thread daily and carefully, and have done for a long time. It's certainly the most active society thread here on TSR and it's so interesting to me because of the many different opinions you guys have, all as fans of the same club. Compared to the LFC soc where we all have similar views on our manager, and our players (individually and as a whole), you guys are a huge spectrum of views - which makes good reading!

I'll bring some stats about the debate you've been having on the last few pages:

- Arsenal have the worst disciplinary record in the Premier League this season. (source: http://www.premierleague.com/page/Statistics/0,,12306,00.html -> choose "Disciplinary table" from drop-down menu) Liverpool, ManU and Chelsea (three 'dirty' teams as cited above) are all within the top-10 best disciplinary records. This table only takes account of red and yellow cards (Arsenal have the most red cards in the Prem, 6, and and the third most yellow cards, 62). It doesn't take account of things like surrounding the ref or all the fouls that don't get spotted, but it does show that Arsenal aren't the "clean, bullied, victimised" team they are traditionally thought to be.

- Vermarlan played three league games for you this season, you conceded goals in two of them. I don't think he would have a huge amount of difference over the season. Djourou, your 'breakthrough' defender this season is unlikely to have got a chance of Verm stayed fit. Last season, when he was fit almost all season, you guys still conceded 41 goals in the league - probably more than you'll concede this season. I know other factors have changed, you've gone to a new goalie and signed two new CBs this season, but it shows that he's not as big of a factor in your defence as some people here make him out to be.


The question I always ask my friends who are Arsenal fans is "are you happy as you are, being the 'most sustainable' club in England but not winning trophies?". They always say yes -- I never believe them.

What is with some deluded Arsenal fans?

- If Cesc leaves (Which I think he will) and Wenger doesn't replace him then that team probably won't even qualify for CL next season.
- Those calling for Wenger to be sacked are idiots, I don't think he should be sacked I believe they should move him up to the boardroom level.
- Team needs to lose the deadwood EG. Bendtner,Clichy, Rosicky etc etc
- RVP is a top striker, Far to injury prone, Say for examples sake he gets a broken leg at the start of the season, Then what? Who else is their who scores goals like him? Chamakh pffttt....
- I read somewhere that 54% of Arsenals conceded goals this season have been from set plays.
- We require a new GK, Don't get me wrong Schezny could become a top keeper but he requires another top keeper he can train with, New defender, Holding midfielder, and a new striker, Will we see these signings in the summer? I doubt it, Will Arsenal win anything next season if they don't sign? No.

Those who say the squad lacks maturity, The ****, Seriously look how long that squad has had to mature. I love Arsenal but I hate Wenger's arrogance, You can still play sexy football without a teenage squad, Look at Barcelona for example?

I agree with this.

I think you also have to consider what effect losing Cesc, would have. The departure of your best player and captain would be a big blow. He is a very influential player, him and RVP are gamewinners. Nasri is good, but his passing is not as good as Cesc's, and neither is his goalscoring ability.

I don't think Arsenal will be winning the league next season although they may win the FA/Carling, the season after perhaps. But you want the progression to continue, if Cesc leaves you need to buy a replacement, not someone who will grow into a replacement, or the teams progression will fall back another 2-3 while his replacement grows in the player he is ( that is assuming you can find a potential replacement for one of the best young CM's in the world right away). Arsenal realistically have a 3 year window with this current team before RVP will need replacing. He wil be a hard player to replace. Along with him Sagna, Arshavin, Chamakh will all be finished or on their way out.

Arsenal have a young team, but some key players are older than the rest of the squad, if Arsenal want a team which is going to win the league in coming season they need to accept Cesc or an equivalent is necessary, you will end up with the same situation you have now. Only with Walcott, Ramsay, and Wilshire and a load of youngsters lacking maturity.

Absolutely 100% agree with this, Wenger's talent lies in scouting and player development I think he could succeed as a 'director of football'.

Explain?

Yesterday was a case of not being able to kill the game off rather than being 'lacklustre' defensively - we should have been 4-1 up by the time Cohen scored.

To be more specific, the Dalglish revolution to needs big spending in the summer to get back in the top 4 and I don't think you've got the money to do it.

Either Wenger or the board needs to clarify the situation on the summer finances available, publicly!

Some very valid points in there, and it's tough - I do still think there are issues that should and could be addressed. However, I don't think some of them had become apparent until now.

Your post also raises an important point. Arsene is accused of being stubborn and refusing to adapt and change it up... However, we've seen HUGE adjustments made in the past couple of seasons...

Arsene has changed our system in the last couple of years. We went from playing a 442 with pacey wingers and 2 reserved CMs to a 433 451 that has greater flexibility and has yielded a better showing away from home I feel.

We have seen a sincere approach to cup competitions, especially the Carling Cup where we fielded a strong team specifically in response to people saying there was a time and place to develop youth. Arsene has utterly done a 360 there, and to an extent it has worked out well.

Those two changes are enormous, because like he said if someone can offer/suggest a good solid reason to make the adjustments he will do it. Unfortunately a lot of people talk about Arsene's failings with a lot of hindsight to hand.

To go back to the points you made, Joe, we ultimately need the players to commit and to have the loyalty a lot of them often pretend to have and then bail like Adagrandmore and Flamoney. I don't want those players near this club.

We need the stability and the reason I remain of optimistic outlook is because if we keep the group together they will grow into winners. We can't just pluck a 30m player out of the market and drop them in, because we'll not see a return from that kind of investment.

We need to invest in attitude, and as I said before... if we're not cheating, we're not trying hard enough. Time to get nasty, Arsenal.

Haven't really followed this thread, so this might be a bit off topic, but these stats show a great deal:

"Net transfer spend since '04 #Arsenal +£11.5m (in credit) #MUFC -£108.72m #CFC -£397.95m #MCFC -£435.2m #THFC -£239.6m"
and
"A stat for #arsenal fans. Before Wenger, you finished top four in 23 out of 92 seasons. Under him, it is 14 out of 14."

People wanting Wenger out are delusional to say the least.

On yesterday's showing I would pay for Cesc's flight to Barcelona myself.

On almost every other day I would gladly invite the man to my bed and pleasure him ruthlessly in homage.

As with every other player I do not want him around the place, especially as captain, if his mind is elsewhere. He needs to commit at least for a defined period of time and not let his mind wander. As far as I'm concerned he owes our club a debt and he is yet to see it paid off. When he has, we can let him go without acrimony and at a decent fee.

On that note, whenever he goes, we need to use the money to bring in replacements. ie. We would use the 40-50m (I assume we could fetch something like that) to bring in someone in the mould of Ozil, who I wish we'd acquired tbh and it would need to be an immediate and certain purchase.

This.
The boards wrong decisions are costing the club millions in lost income by signing awful commercial deals. I think this is starting to change though as we're going to the far-east for pre-season for the first time - the only reason is to increase publicity and therefore revenue.

Fernando Llorente for £34million anyone?

The question I always ask my friends who are Arsenal fans is "are you happy as you are, being the 'most sustainable' club in England but not winning trophies?". They always say yes -- I never believe them.