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How can I stop paying for the NHS?
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Original post by isaqyi
You're a liar.
The only reason it's not covered by private companies is because the charity cases of this country (i.e. the working class) won't let go of that beast the NHS.
The only reason it's not covered by private companies is because the charity cases of this country (i.e. the working class) won't let go of that beast the NHS.
You are a seriously mistaken person.
It is not just the working-class who benefit from the NHS.
If you have ANYTHING long-term wrong with you in the USA, it's near impossible to get insurance. Even when you have insurance, it only covers SOME things and you're still likely to be caught out if you get hurt or become ill... And it actually costs every individual as well as the government more to run a system like that of the USA.
Costs more, a lot of people aren't covered, a lot more people are only partially covered... and it's completely unfair.
You shouldn't have to be well-off to receive decent medical treatment (without then getting into huge financial trouble being unable to pay a bill off).
Original post by tehFrance
This is socialism at it's worst 
we should have the option to not pay for the NHS if we wish to go private instead.
I personally am all for a free market with a privatised healthcare system, where I'd actually get seen rather than have to wait for hours and days on end just to get a preliminary appointment... I have had to go back to France several times since I have been here due to not being seen quick enough and yes I know France's healthcare is government funded but it works, unlike the British system... to me the only way the NHS will get better is for it to be scrapped and either rebuilt (a complete revamp of their framework, etc) or come back privatised and run like corporations.
/Ramble
we should have the option to not pay for the NHS if we wish to go private instead.I personally am all for a free market with a privatised healthcare system, where I'd actually get seen rather than have to wait for hours and days on end just to get a preliminary appointment... I have had to go back to France several times since I have been here due to not being seen quick enough and yes I know France's healthcare is government funded but it works, unlike the British system... to me the only way the NHS will get better is for it to be scrapped and either rebuilt (a complete revamp of their framework, etc) or come back privatised and run like corporations.
/Ramble
By not paying for the NHS you would accept that you should get no treatment including A&E or treatment if you suddenly run out of money and cant afford health insurance for private care anymore.
Its like people with jobs saying they wont pay for jobseekers allowance because they arent using the service. Although you may never use it, there are plenty of people who do end up using it at some point (even temporarily). If there was an opt out scheme do you think that if those people lose their job/money then they should just starve to death?
1 - You don't pay 600£ a week.
2 - Unless you subscribe to objective Social Darwinism [Which is not feasible in the modern world] we are always going to need a form of public healthcare system. You will actually benefit from this anyway, because if illness is allowed to spread and is not treated, and is then allowed to proliferate amongst the poor. It could potentially cause the people in upper society a great deal of problems later. A healthy society is a good society.
3 - If there was an option to 'opt-out' as it were, then as many other posters have pointed out, you would be denied the extensive facilities provided to private healthcare by the NHS. Furthermore, you would potentially reduce the large state funding going to the research of treatments we might all potentially need, another important facet of the NHS.
3 v2 - If you were to opt out of paying taxes for the NHS, signifying you aren't willing to contribute to society. Then really, you shouldn't be using the roads, public transport, the police, the fire service, the NHS, any form of public service or provision whatsoever. Since it would be simply impossible to prevent this occurance, the only way you cannot pay for the NHS, is to leave the country entirely.
2 - Unless you subscribe to objective Social Darwinism [Which is not feasible in the modern world] we are always going to need a form of public healthcare system. You will actually benefit from this anyway, because if illness is allowed to spread and is not treated, and is then allowed to proliferate amongst the poor. It could potentially cause the people in upper society a great deal of problems later. A healthy society is a good society.
3 - If there was an option to 'opt-out' as it were, then as many other posters have pointed out, you would be denied the extensive facilities provided to private healthcare by the NHS. Furthermore, you would potentially reduce the large state funding going to the research of treatments we might all potentially need, another important facet of the NHS.
3 v2 - If you were to opt out of paying taxes for the NHS, signifying you aren't willing to contribute to society. Then really, you shouldn't be using the roads, public transport, the police, the fire service, the NHS, any form of public service or provision whatsoever. Since it would be simply impossible to prevent this occurance, the only way you cannot pay for the NHS, is to leave the country entirely.
Original post by thecookiemonster
Original post by thecookiemonster
Um what? This is the quote i was referring to:
''You can't stop paying national health contributions because National Health Service facilities are provided to cater for people who pay for private doctors. If you were ever to be in an emergency accident for example and your life was on the line, the chances are that you'd be treated on the NHS with emergency care. You might be moved to a private hospital later when you're recovering, but the emergency treatment to save your life would be on the NHS.
So, no, you cannot opt out, unless you leave the country. ''
Care to explain how a quote from Margaret Thatcher 'wipes the floor with this poster'?
''You can't stop paying national health contributions because National Health Service facilities are provided to cater for people who pay for private doctors. If you were ever to be in an emergency accident for example and your life was on the line, the chances are that you'd be treated on the NHS with emergency care. You might be moved to a private hospital later when you're recovering, but the emergency treatment to save your life would be on the NHS.
So, no, you cannot opt out, unless you leave the country. ''
Care to explain how a quote from Margaret Thatcher 'wipes the floor with this poster'?
Don't even try.
I am beginning to suspect troll.
Original post by isaqyi
Is there any way I can stop the British public stealing my money to pay for their healthcare?
Is there any way I can stop the British public stealing my money to pay for their healthcare?
lol wait till this guy finds out that its not just the British public, his taxes are paying for the healthcare of all the immigrants as well. BET YOU LIKE THAT ISAQYI LOL.
The NHS in Britain is a bit like a religion. Very few people are able to look at it objectively and most will start frothing at the mouth the moment you suggest that it might not be the most wonderful thing since cold beer. This thread is a good example.
Two points:
1. To hold the US healthcare system up as the alternative is disengenious. It's a corporatist system. A free-market solution such as that in Hong Kong is a much better alternative.
2. Ignoring all these spurious arguments from effect (because they are irrelevant), I must admit to feeling somewhat ashamed when my fellow countryman insist on denying another man the right to act on his convictions.
If a person does not want the services of the NHS, he should have the ability to opt-out. That is ethical.
What is not ethical is insisting that another person pay for your healthcare against his/her wishes, and threatening to put them in prison if they do not. How on earth can any person have any obligation towards something they never wanted, still do not want and were never asked about in the first place?
Two points:
1. To hold the US healthcare system up as the alternative is disengenious. It's a corporatist system. A free-market solution such as that in Hong Kong is a much better alternative.
2. Ignoring all these spurious arguments from effect (because they are irrelevant), I must admit to feeling somewhat ashamed when my fellow countryman insist on denying another man the right to act on his convictions.
If a person does not want the services of the NHS, he should have the ability to opt-out. That is ethical.
What is not ethical is insisting that another person pay for your healthcare against his/her wishes, and threatening to put them in prison if they do not. How on earth can any person have any obligation towards something they never wanted, still do not want and were never asked about in the first place?
Original post by Cornish student
By not paying for the NHS you would accept that you should get no treatment including A&E or treatment if you suddenly run out of money and cant afford health insurance for private care anymore.
I wouldn't want to use the NHS anyway, to me all I have had is bad experience after bad experience... my recent operation had to be done in France (where I pay taxes as well not income tax though that is here) due to how slow it is over here.
I know that in France there are bad hospitals but there seems to be more here than there which to me says that there needs to be restructuring of the service with the sacking of managers that aren't needed not more money thrown at it and hope it gets better.
Restructuring or Privatisation is needed or maybe a combination of both if that is even possible.
Original post by EdwardCurrent
The NHS in Britain is a bit like a religion. Very few people are able to look at it objectively and most will start frothing at the mouth the moment you suggest that it might not be the most wonderful thing since cold beer. This thread is a good example.
Two points:
1. To hold the US healthcare system up as the alternative is disengenious. It's a corporatist system. A free-market solution such as that in Hong Kong is a much better alternative.
2. Ignoring all these spurious arguments from effect (because they are irrelevant), I must admit to feeling somewhat ashamed when my fellow countryman insist on denying another man the right to act on his convictions.
If a person does not want the services of the NHS, he should have the ability to opt-out. That is ethical.
What is not ethical is insisting that another person pay for your healthcare against his/her wishes, and threatening to put them in prison if they do not. How on earth can any person have any obligation towards something they never wanted, still do not want and were never asked about in the first place?
Two points:
1. To hold the US healthcare system up as the alternative is disengenious. It's a corporatist system. A free-market solution such as that in Hong Kong is a much better alternative.
2. Ignoring all these spurious arguments from effect (because they are irrelevant), I must admit to feeling somewhat ashamed when my fellow countryman insist on denying another man the right to act on his convictions.
If a person does not want the services of the NHS, he should have the ability to opt-out. That is ethical.
What is not ethical is insisting that another person pay for your healthcare against his/her wishes, and threatening to put them in prison if they do not. How on earth can any person have any obligation towards something they never wanted, still do not want and were never asked about in the first place?
Because the whole thing would collapse, the NHS relies on extensive risk pooling across a large population and a range of incomes (the population and taxes of Britain). Those who truly need the NHS cannot afford the NHS.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Fusilero
Because the whole thing would collapse, the NHS relies on extensive risk pooling across a large population and a range of incomes (the population and taxes of Britain). Those who truly need the NHS cannot afford the NHS.
Then why do they become my bloody problem? I couldn't care less about them.
Original post by lonelykatana
I hope if you do find a way, you no longer get the privilege of NHS funded ambulances or emergency sugary after serious accidents.
mmm sugary...
couldn't help it 
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
Yes, you should be forced to pay for it, I don't particularly care if you think that takes away your freedoms.
I'm not saying you shouldn't pay for it. I was reiterating my stance on the Tories. Apart from John Major and Ken Clarke. They're the only two Tories I have any time for.
Original post by isaqyi
Then why do they become my bloody problem? I couldn't care less about them.
I couldn't care less about you but when I'm qualified in a few years I'd still treat you to the best of my abilities and with respect just like I'd treat anyone else.
Original post by Fusilero
Because the whole thing would collapse, the NHS relies on extensive risk pooling across a large population and a range of incomes (the population and taxes of Britain). Those who truly need the NHS cannot afford the NHS.
If it would collapse if people were allowed to opt-out then that should tell you something.
An entity which could not exist on a peaceful and voluntary basis should not exist at all. Such a thing survives only by the forceful extraction of money against the convictions and will of individual persons and that is ghastly and utterly immoral state of affairs to be in.
Original post by isaqyi
What are you talking about? Private healthcare isn't extortionate in the USA, and it's a damn sight better than here.
US: Discover you have chronic illness, inform insurance company, have insurance withdrawn on dubious grounds to protect insurance company's profit, go bankrupt trying to finance treatment.
UK: Discover you have chronic illness, get treatment.
I like living in the UK.
Original post by isaqyi
Then why do they become my bloody problem? I couldn't care less about them.
That's the point of tax - you give up a small amount of your income (i.e. the bit you don't really need in the first place) so that it becomes the government's problem to deal with the needy.
As has been pointed out before, the money you have depends on the labour of those further down the chain. If they aren't healthy, you make less money.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by EdwardCurrent
What is not ethical is insisting that another person pay for your healthcare against his/her wishes, and threatening to put them in prison if they do not. How on earth can any person have any obligation towards something they never wanted, still do not want and were never asked about in the first place?
What is not ethical is insisting that another person pay for your healthcare against his/her wishes, and threatening to put them in prison if they do not. How on earth can any person have any obligation towards something they never wanted, still do not want and were never asked about in the first place?
This argument doesn't really make sense. Should I refuse to pay taxes because I don't think the current system is any good? I'm fairly sure I should rule the country single handedly, and all the money of the workforce should belong to me to distribute as I see fit.
And those pesky laws, I don't agree that I shouldn't be able to park on double yellow lines, nobody ever asked me about it. So it's certainly not fair that I have to pay a parking fine when I do it!
Original post by EdwardCurrent
If it would collapse if people were allowed to opt-out then that should tell you something.
An entity which could not exist on a peaceful and voluntary basis should not exist at all. Such a thing survives only by the forceful extraction of money against the convictions and will of individual persons and that is ghastly and utterly immoral state of affairs to be in.
An entity which could not exist on a peaceful and voluntary basis should not exist at all. Such a thing survives only by the forceful extraction of money against the convictions and will of individual persons and that is ghastly and utterly immoral state of affairs to be in.
Everyone benefits from the NHS as has been pointed out, even if you don't necessarily use it (Though I bet you have at least several times in your life). The fact that people are too stupid to understand that doesn't make the system bad. If you allowed people to voluntarily opt out of paying any taxes at all I'm sure vast swathes of the country would do so and everything would go tits up. 'The public' are generally a bunch of complete idiots with no ability to objectively think about wider implications of their own actions.
Original post by EdwardCurrent
If it would collapse if people were allowed to opt-out then that should tell you something.
An entity which could not exist on a peaceful and voluntary basis should not exist at all. Such a thing survives only by the forceful extraction of money against the convictions and will of individual persons and that is ghastly and utterly immoral state of affairs to be in.
An entity which could not exist on a peaceful and voluntary basis should not exist at all. Such a thing survives only by the forceful extraction of money against the convictions and will of individual persons and that is ghastly and utterly immoral state of affairs to be in.
The alternative is to let those that need healthcare the most, the elderly, the disabled and the poor, go without. I don't see that as a real, viable alternative and am willing to (have the state) commit lesser evils to prevent greater ones.
Also, you've just described the vast majority of human institutions. I hope you're an anarchist of some sort.
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