How can I stop paying for the NHS?

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Should I refuse to pay taxes because I don't think the current system is any good?

I'm fairly sure I should rule the country single handedly, and all the money of the workforce should belong to me to distribute as I see fit.

Unfortunately this relies on theft and violence against another person. It is no different to scenario above. When a government does it it it's fine but when an individual does it it's not? This is inconsistent and makes no sense.

And those pesky laws, I don't agree that I shouldn't be able to park on double yellow lines, nobody ever asked me about it. So it's certainly not fair that I have to pay a parking fine when I do it!

If you owned the roads you could park wherever you liked.

Reply 101

EdwardCurrent

Original post by Fusilero

The alternative is to let those that need healthcare the most, the elderly, the disabled and the poor, go without.

That is a blatent untruth. You cannot know how the market would arrange itself, but generally the market sorts these sorts of situations out far better than force of government. And by market, I include private, voluntary charity.

But again, we're back to spurious arguments from effect.

Reply 102

EdwardCurrent

Original post by Mithra

Everyone benefits from the NHS as has been pointed out, even if you don't necessarily use it (Though I bet you have at least several times in your life).

You are seriously suggesting that it is perfectly okay to force some 'service' on somebody, declare that they have benefited and then demand payment?

Original post by Mithra

The fact that people are too stupid to understand that doesn't make the system bad. If you allowed people to voluntarily opt out of paying any taxes at all I'm sure vast swathes of the country would do so and everything would go tits up. 'The public' are generally a bunch of complete idiots with no ability to objectively think about wider implications of their own actions.

So, in short, your argument boils down to "I know better than you what is good for you and therefore I will force it upon you against your wishes".

Reply 103

Captain_Rhodes

Original post by EdwardCurrent

Should you be forced to pay for things you don't want under threat of violence? No, as a reasonable and rational human being I think not.

A reasonable and rational human being would think about others instead of just themselves and be prepared to contribute to society.

There's no threat of violence just punishment in the UK for not paying taxes. Distinct difference.

Reply 104

faber niger

Emigrate to Dubai.

You'll soon want to come back. :biggrin:

Reply 105

Chewwy

Original post by EdwardCurrent

So, in short, your argument boils down to "I know better than you what is good for you and therefore I will force it upon you against your wishes".

it's that what's best for the individual is not always best for the crowd. on top of this people are undoubtedly short sighted and overconfident of their own morbidity.

Reply 106

Chewwy

Original post by EdwardCurrent

You are seriously suggesting that it is perfectly okay to force some 'service' on somebody, declare that they have benefited and then demand payment?

i am assuming you're about 12, because this happens in almost every aspect of life.

Reply 107

EdwardCurrent

Original post by Captain_Rhodes

A reasonable and rational human being would think about others instead of just themselves and be prepared to contribute to society.

There is no obligation to contribute to society, whatever that means. Every person is an individual with their own thoughts and convictions. As long as they do not cause damage or loss to another person or another person's property then where is the problem? The entire concept of forcing people to comply with your personal prejudices is alien to me and not reasonable in the slightest.

That said, you cannot infer anything about "thinking about others" and "contibuting from society" from me stating that the NHS is an inoptimal solution built on unethical, coercive means. This is nothing but a crude ad hom.

There's no threat of violence just punishment in the UK for not paying taxes. Distinct difference.

So, what is the difference?

Reply 108

Chewwy

Original post by EdwardCurrent

You cannot refuse to pay taxes because you will be sent to prison. Should you be forced to pay for things you don't want under threat of violence? No, as a reasonable and rational human being I think not.

Unfortunately this relies on theft and violence against another person. It is no different to scenario above. When a government does it it it's fine but when an individual does it it's not? This is inconsistent and makes no sense.

If you owned the roads you could park wherever you liked.

from your posts you appear to be quite devoid of common sense, compassion and maturity. These are all quite important for doing well in life, as such I expect you are likely to benefit from state support much more than the average person.

So your comments are a bit ironic.

Reply 109

EdwardCurrent

Original post by Chewwy

i am assuming you're about 12, because this happens in almost every aspect of life.

No it doesn't. Only where the government is concerned. But even if it did, does it strike you as reasonable and ethical?

Reply 110

Prime500

Yes, there is a way you can stop paying for the NHS. You can **** off.

Reply 111

EdwardCurrent

Original post by Chewwy

Your maturity and intelligence is clearly demonstrated by your immediate resort to the ad hom and complete inability to form a coherent argument.

The irony, I think, is on you.

Reply 112

Chewwy

Original post by EdwardCurrent

Your maturity and intelligence is clearly demonstrated by your immediate resort to the ad hom and complete inability to form a coherent argument.

The irony, I think, is on you.

your repeated use of 'ad hom' is endearing. why would I want to argue with you? you're being childish. i would not win.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 113

EdwardCurrent

Original post by Chewwy

your repeated use of 'ad hom' is endearing.

You are too kind.

Reply 114

wn4

I am assuming that if you have enough spare cash to pay for private healthcare that you are also paying some tax, in which case you are used to getting absolutely shafted by the government in every aspect of tax, but that is the burden of having an decent income, any private service you decide to use doesn't mean you should get a refund from the government for it, for example private schools.

Reply 115

WelshBluebird

Original post by isaqyi

Then why do they become my bloody problem? I couldn't care less about them.

It is your problem when diseases spread and don't pay any attention to class divisions.

Reply 116

Nightstar-27

Original post by Mr Disco

I know, how selfish.

But why stop there? Why the hell should we pay for free loading Brits to be rescued from fires? Why should we pay for them to be protected on the street.

Living in a society which protects its most vulnerable citizens makes me sick.

Then move to another society where only the rich and powerful live happy lives and the poor and sick are treated by crap. I'm sure there are plenty of countries and societies that are like this, go move there if it makes you so sick to live in a country where everyone pays taxes to help everyone else.

Reply 117

WelshBluebird

Original post by EdwardCurrent

That is a blatent untruth.

Except it really isn't.
The only reason the american system doesn't result in mass death of the poor and elderly is because those people are protected because the government pays for their healthcare (through taxes).

Original post by EdwardCurrent

So I take it you don't use any public services at all and think everything should be private and profitable?
What about those who cannot afford private healthcare? Since you don't think anyone should pay for someone elses healthcare, do you think those people should just suffer and die?

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 118

Cornish student

Original post by tehFrance

I wouldn't want to use the NHS anyway, to me all I have had is bad experience after bad experience... my recent operation had to be done in France (where I pay taxes as well not income tax though that is here) due to how slow it is over here.

Restructuring or Privatisation is needed or maybe a combination of both if that is even possible.

But you have no choice about whether or not you use the NHS when you are incapacitated and taken to A&E. What happens if someones health insurance was invalidated or gets cancelled due to them not being able to afford it. Obviously they would get NHS care in that case because we shouldn't just let them die. However, why should they get to use NHS if they hadnt paid for it.

Reply 119

Mithra

Original post by EdwardCurrent

You are seriously suggesting that it is perfectly okay to force some 'service' on somebody, declare that they have benefited and then demand payment?

So, in short, your argument boils down to "I know better than you what is good for you and therefore I will force it upon you against your wishes".

I was merely pointing out that arguing that were people given the chance to not pay for something the fact that they wouldn't isn't proof that its a bad system. Like with taxes if you said to someone "how about you don't have to pay taxes anymore?" I bet a large proportion of the population would jump at the chance, but if they then actually understood what no-one paying taxes would result in they might change that. Its the understanding of collective responsibility that I think a large proportion of the British public lack.