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Original post by warwickorbristol
If a pilot crashes a plane you don't treat him like a murderer. Shawcross was doing his job and Ramsey knew it, why didn't he defend a fellow footballer?


No the main thing here is that Shawcross was undeniably reckless. You should never go into a tackle with that much force unless you're certain that you'll get the ball, and judging by the fact that Ramsey got the ball first there's no way Shawcross could've been certain. If a pilot crashes a plane through reckless behaviour and it's his fault then he would be treated as a murderer. We'd be seeing broken legs almost every week if idiotic players kept going into tackles like that, but thankfully most players can judge whether or not to dive into a tackle. The fact that people are criticising Ramsey for not accepting Shawcross' apology is also baffling, it was a terrible tackle that could have ended his career, why should he accept an insincere apology?
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by warwickorbristol
If a pilot crashes a plane you don't treat him like a murderer. Shawcross was doing his job and Ramsey knew it, why didn't he defend a fellow footballer?


You idiot, You do know Shawcross broke Francis Jeffers ankle before Ramsey's leg? Suppose that was a accident as well huh?

Shawcross knew what he was doing, He's a dirty **** player.
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Original post by 419


Whilst the whole clip is a load of ****e from start to finish, I'd ****ing love it if we got Ogbonna. :coma:
Original post by Ar5enal Fan
No the main thing here is that Shawcross was undeniably reckless. You should never go into a tackle with that much force unless you're certain that you'll get the ball, and judging by the fact that Ramsey got the ball first there's no way Shawcross could've been certain. If a pilot crashes a plane through reckless behaviour and it's his fault then he would be treated as a murderer. We'd be seeing broken legs almost every week if idiotic players kept going into tackles like that, but thankfully most players can judge whether or not to dive into a tackle. The fact that people are criticising Ramsey for not accepting Shawcross' apology is also baffling, it was a terrible tackle that could have ended his career, why should he accept an insincere apology?


You're really living up to your user name here.

Every sport has injuries, even non-contact sports like athletics carry an injury risk. Football is played at a very fast pace with very powerful players and huge amounts ride on individual games. Because of that there is always going to be a risk of injury. If there's malice then absolutely that's bang out of order but Shawcross was just unfortunate that of the many many many perfect tackles he made that season the one that wasn't came against the whiniest team in the league.

The only way you'll remove tackles like Shawcross' from the game is by fundamentally changing the game. If you want to do that **** off and make your own sport.
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Original post by warwickorbristol
If a pilot crashes a plane you don't treat him like a murderer. Shawcross was doing his job and Ramsey knew it, why didn't he defend a fellow footballer?


Really good analogy there. I mean just absolutely brillaint. :rolleyes:

Would you defend someone that hospitilised you in a car crash through dangerous driving in a court of law just simply on the basis that they are your fellow driver.

Ps thanks for confirming that Shawcross job title includes breaking breaking fellow footballer's leg.
Original post by 419
Really good analogy there. I mean just absolutely brillaint. :rolleyes:

Would you defend someone that hospitilised you in a car crash through dangerous driving in a court of law just simply on the basis that they are your fellow driver.

Ps thanks for confirming that Shawcross job title includes breaking breaking fellow footballer's leg.


Of course I wouldn't but I don't think Shawcross was playing in an inherently dangerous manner.
Original post by warwickorbristol
You're really living up to your user name here.

Every sport has injuries, even non-contact sports like athletics carry an injury risk. Football is played at a very fast pace with very powerful players and huge amounts ride on individual games. Because of that there is always going to be a risk of injury. If there's malice then absolutely that's bang out of order but Shawcross was just unfortunate that of the many many many perfect tackles he made that season the one that wasn't came against the whiniest team in the league.

The only way you'll remove tackles like Shawcross' from the game is by fundamentally changing the game. If you want to do that **** off and make your own sport.


Yes every sport has injuries, but should professionals not try to ensure that they do not go around endangering fellow athletes careers through reckless tackles? Shawcross has snapped Jeffers' ankle, broken Ramseys leg and spent a whole game trying to kick us off the park and ended up injuring Adebayor who then had to miss a month through injury. It's not like the incident was a one off. Being aggressive is fine, there's players out there like Vidic for example who are aggressive and top class defenders, but you don't see him lunging into tackles all the time with the force that could end up breaking someones leg. I don't think Shawcross meant to break Ramsey's leg, but there's no way he could've been sure that he'd get the ball so must've known there was a chance he'd catch Ramsey and as such he had no reason to go in with such excessive force.

Also the sport doesn't need fundemental changes. As Arseblog stated not so long ago, in the MLS a player had his suspension increased to 10 games after he broke a players leg. If you increase the punishment for such tackles then hopefully it would deter these neanderthals from making reckless tackles. The MLS is a relatively minor league but I don't see why such a rule couldn't be adopted elsewhere.
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I'd have a lot more sympathy for you if Arsenal didn't have the worst disciplinary record in the league. You reap what you sow.

(before you all say "oh but that doesn't matter because...", if Stoke/Newcastle had as many red cards as you guys have had this season you've be up in arms about it)


If you accept that Shawcross didn't do it deliberately, what's the problem? Your players aren't the model of 'footballing niceness' some of you still think they are.
By saying you can't go into challenges with momentum you fundamentally change the game. A high pressing game becomes less effective because you can't actually make the challenge after you've traveled there with speed. As it is football is a very balanced game, you would give the attacking side of the game so much power by giving 10 match bans for challenges like Shawcross'.
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The problem is people berating Ramsey for not accepting an apparent apology, Wenger's reaction to it (which the emdia twisted at every opportunity) and the over acceptance that reckless tackles that result in a broken legs are okay as long as its not malicious- a broken leg is a broken leg ffs.
Remember after the incident, everyone was quick to heap to the defense of Shawcross and critise, twist and over dramatise anything Wenger said. It was as if Ramsey was th one that broke Shawcross's leg.
And tbf our poor disciplinary record comes from a combination of things which all stem from harsh refererring as a result of us playing a more physically- which probably resulted from Wenger giving up on fighting against dirty tackles after the reaction to this incident and then encouraging it- NOT because of dirty tackles. Name a player that has being out for a prolonged period of time due a tackle by an Arsenal player.
Arsenal should stop giving a ****, and start tackling as hard as stoke do. The ***** will get the message when Pulis cries like a baby when Lenny breaks his leg in three.

I'm quite glad the process has already begun.
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Original post by warwickorbristol
By saying you can't go into challenges with momentum you fundamentally change the game. A high pressing game becomes less effective because you can't actually make the challenge after you've traveled there with speed. As it is football is a very balanced game, you would give the attacking side of the game so much power by giving 10 match bans for challenges like Shawcross'.


What you just described is a fair tackle where the player is in absolute control.

You are clearly not going to accept what a reckless tackle it was by Shawcross. Go and look at the videos again, he went flying in with absolutely no control- it was a stupid tackle and deserved a 10 game ban.

The idea of implementing a 10 game ban is that it will be an exception rather than a normal. Plus no point discussing it anyways- it'll never happen.
Barcelona play a high pressing game (the highest in the world probably) and how many legs have they broken?

Stupid argument this.

Stamping down on reckless challenges is only a good thing. Why are the English (who are crap at football relatively speaking) the only people in Europe not to understand this?

Anyway, my main issue is with fans. People thinking of booing Ramsay. Seriously? How scummy can people be?

I don't hold to much anger against Shawcross, I think he is reckless, he's broken 3 legs in 6 years. That's unacceptable, but I don't think he's a particularly nasty player, just stupid. REckless challenges are an indication of inability, poor positioning usually, rather than anything else.
(edited 12 years ago)
Hantheman our football league is the best in Europe which has more relevance than how well our national teams plays.
Original post by warwickorbristol
Hantheman our football league is the best in Europe which has more relevance than how well our national teams plays.


Yes but how many of the top players are English?

Rooney... err and he's been crap for most of this season.

The English league is the best because it has significantly more money than anywhere else. Not because English players are any good.
Original post by 419
What you just described is a fair tackle where the player is in absolute control.

You are clearly not going to accept what a reckless tackle it was by Shawcross. Go and look at the videos again, he went flying in with absolutely no control- it was a stupid tackle and deserved a 10 game ban.

The idea of implementing a 10 game ban is that it will be an exception rather than a normal. Plus no point discussing it anyways- it'll never happen.


Wilshere has made a couple of tackles this season where he had no control, should he have been banned for 20 or 30 games of the season?
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Original post by warwickorbristol
Hantheman our football league is the best in Europe which has more relevance than how well our national teams plays.


Sorry, but the PL isn't the best league anymore. Stay with the time.
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Original post by warwickorbristol
Wilshere has made a couple of tackles this season where he had no control, should he have been banned for 20 or 30 games of the season?


*Would insert a triple faceplam image but can't be asked with you anymore.
Original post by Hantheman
Yes but how many of the top players are English?

Rooney... err and he's been crap for most of this season.

The English league is the best because it has significantly more money than anywhere else. Not because English players are any good.


Lampard is the most productive midfielder in the world and he's English, Terry and Ferdinand are excellent centre backs, Ashley Cole is a fantastic left back and as good as anyone, Hart one of the best young keepers in the world, Gerrard is excellent too.

Are you honestly trying to say the lack of success of our national team is down to our attitudes towards tackling?
Original post by warwickorbristol
Lampard is the most productive midfielder in the world and he's English, Terry and Ferdinand are excellent centre backs, Ashley Cole is a fantastic left back and as good as anyone, Hart one of the best young keepers in the world, Gerrard is excellent too.

Are you honestly trying to say the lack of success of our national team is down to our attitudes towards tackling?


No it's our attitude to football. We think it always has to be 120 mph, full of PASHUN (tm) and commitment. Then we face a team who are smart, can can control a ball and read the game, and we get absolutely outclassed.

Same applies to our attitude to tackling. Hollywood challenges are arbitrary in defending. The best defenders in the world don't have to make ball crunching challenges because they're more often than not in the right place to intercept. You mention Ferdinand, how many Shawcross challenges has he made in his entire career?

And Gerrard has been crap for about 3 years. And Terry has never been world class. Ever. He was carried by Gallas and Carvalho for years.

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