To those students on the Autistic Spectrum.

One neurotypical person will ask another to drink with them. If that neurotypical person says 'no' to a drink it normally means they want to but don’t have the money, or they just need a little encouragement. By telling the person who offered you drink 'no', the neurotypical person felt rejected. This is why he insisted in a bullying form.

Strategies I used.

Buy one drink and make it last. If anyone offered me a drink I could tell them I already had one.

I would buy some drinks for people and go to the bar myself so it was not noticed I had the same drink. Most of the time neurotypical people will over look the fact you are not drinking because you got them a drink. When that falls go to the next strategy.


My first drink would always be orange juice with vodka and the beauty of vodka, mixed with orange juice looks like orange juice. After that I would go back to the bar and order orange juice and no one was the wiser. If anyone asked me if I wanted a drink I could tell the truth and say I had a drink.


If someone asked me what I was drinking I would respond with “orange juice with vodka goes well together” did I lie? No because I did not say ‘I am drinking vodka and orange juice' but I suggested vodka and orange juice go well together. Most neurotypical assume that is what I am drinking. If anyone tries to take a sip, (someone will at one point), I would smile and in a fun way pick up the drink just as they reach for it and say ”get your own”. I say that comment in a sing song manner like a nursery rhyme. I choose a nursery rhyme tone which I picked out and could remember spontaneously when needed. This took practise but I used a tape recorder to mimic a phrase then play it back till I was satisfied when used it would not sound sarcastic but normal.

Hey guys,
Basically i'm starting a Wiki which will incorporate lots of information about the Autistic Spectrum.

I want to create something that will really give a good picture to Neurotypicals as to what it is like having ASD.

Well then do in such a way that actually really explains what it's like. You go around these Asperger's related threads on TSR saying things like "most of the information you read online/in books is incorrect" or that "AS doesn't mean you don't have empathy and lack imagination". And I'm tired of it because in this instance you are the one spreading false information. Yeah, yeah, your mom and brother have AS and so do your friends and you read about it a lot, etc., etc., but here's a newsflash - it doesn't make you a specialist on the subject. Remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in emphatizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). So stop going around acting like you're an expert - you do not speak for the whole AS community (which you are not even a part of!) and your limited experiences with your friends and family members are not representative of the everyone else with the condition.

Oh yeah, and what's with all the strategies on making yourself look like a drinker? Haven't you ever considered that by saying "do X, Y, and Z so you could be more like the others" is sending the message that it's not okay to be different and say "no" to a social convention you're not interested in taking part in?

'your limited experiences with your friends and family members are not representative of the everyone else with the condition.'

Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria).

Oh yeah, and what's with all the strategies on making yourself look like a drinker? Haven't you ever considered that by saying "do X, Y, and Z so you could be more like the others" is sending the message that it's not okay to be different and say "no" to a social convention you're not interested in taking part in?

you do not speak for the whole AS community (which you are not even a part of!)

I really don't think alcohol strategies should be anywhere near the top of the list of things to cover, there are FAR FAR more important things, and the advice your mum is giving is fatally misguided in that it's sending a message of 'you will not be accepted for who you are so you need to lie about it'. If that's going to be the running theme of this wiki then I want no part in it.

I do think we need to cover material on dealing with relationships and how to effectively communicate with a (potential) partner or close friend especially dealing with sensitive issues like intimacy and being in new situations.

Well then do in such a way that actually really explains what it's like. You go around these Asperger's related threads on TSR saying things like "most of the information you read online/in books is incorrect" or that "AS doesn't mean you don't have empathy and lack imagination". And I'm tired of it because in this instance you are the one spreading false information. Yeah, yeah, your mom and brother have AS and so do your friends and you read about it a lot, etc., etc., but here's a newsflash - it doesn't make you a specialist on the subject. Remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in emphatizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). So stop going around acting like you're an expert - you do not speak for the whole AS community (which you are not even a part of!) and your limited experiences with your friends and family members are not representative of the everyone else with the condition.

Oh yeah, and what's with all the strategies on making yourself look like a drinker? Haven't you ever considered that by saying "do X, Y, and Z so you could be more like the others" is sending the message that it's not okay to be different and say "no" to a social convention you're not interested in taking part in?

Well then do in such a way that actually really explains what it's like.

And I'm tired of it because in this instance you are the one spreading false information.

I think you have seriously misinterpretated what i am doing, and who i am.

The important reason for this is a few diagnosed with AS - at first whilst reading the symtoms thought they did not have AS because they took it all literally. Yes 'Empathy' is a diagnostic criteria because of 'Theory of Mind' - But not all people suffer from in the same way(i've read AS Empthy exists but is just different from a Neurotypicals). I've met many people with AS who get angry at the idea they have no emotions.

BECAUSE - So many will try to fit in. Not everyone with AS just accepts they are different and does NOTHING about it. Many strive with all their efforts to fit in.

I'm not talking about your "project" here, this has got nothing to do with it. I just saw your post and it gave me the opportunity to say what I've been meaning to say for quite some time.

So here it is: what irks me about your AS related posts is that so many of them have you saying that people with AS do not have problems with empathizing and imagination; you're saying that Internet sites and textbooks have got it wrong. To quote your own words: "I've found most textbooks and internet sites hold incorrect information but then the idea is generally new...". That's from your profile page. And that's what I've seen you say in so many posts around TSR, coupled with the "no empathizing problems" bit. And that's just wrong. And I've explained why it's wrong, but here goes again: remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in empathizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). Yet you keep going around and essentially saying that the highly trained professionals don't know what they're talking about, but you do because you know people with AS.

You said: "When i post things about lots of information being incorrect, i don't literally mean 'it's wrong'". Do you know the definition of the word "incorrect"? It means false, not true, inaccurate. It means "wrong". If you say that it's incorrect to believe that Aspies have difficulties with empathizing then the only logical conclusion is that they do not have such difficulties. Which is not true. But the statements you're making make it sound true.

You also said: "This is how i acquire my information - not from reading books, but from different people." Then why the hell do you go around saying that (and I quote you!) "I've found most textbooks hold incorrect information"?! If you don't even read about Asperger's then how on Earth can you say that the books are wrong?!



From this it seems that you do understand that there are differences and not all people with AS are the same; some have difficulties with empathy/imagination and some don't. Yet you don't acknowledge that (at least I haven't seen it yet), you say it's incorrect to assume that Aspies can't be empathetic and then you give an example about your brother who apparently can be. If you know that people with Asperger's are all different then why don't you just say that? Why do you keep making definitive statements like the ones I've already mentioned, which are in fact wrong? There's a lot of confusion about what AS is like as it is and it seems to me that you're only adding to it by saying things that are incorrect and, based on your responses in this thread, not even what you actually mean.
As for the underlined part - lack of empathy doesn't mean "lack of emotions".



Well, I'm not much of an exception, I'd like to fit in too, you know. But many of us don't just like the drinking part, we don't like the whole clubbing/going out kind of thing. And when you're a weirdo who doesn't like these kinds of things then you're almost instantly excluded. When I got to university, I accepted an invitation to go get some takeout. Of course I really sucked at it - I couldn't really converse with anyone (best I could do was parrot someone else's "what course are you doing?"), I didn't understand their jokes, I didn't care for their topics of conversation, I was totally weirded out when the others suggested slumber party (then and there) to "bond", and I think my leaving without saying a thing to anyone was bit of a social faux pas. I was asked to go to a bar the next day and I turned them down. That was the extent of my communication with my flatmates until I moved out several months later. I was instantly ostracized because I wasn't what most young adults consider "normal". How can I avoid that? How can I make sure that it doesn't happen again this year? How can I be accepted by others and be included without having to engage in activities (clubbing, drinking) that I really do not like (a.k.a. hate, despise, find pointless to infinity in power of ten)? I think strategies to help deal with such situations is what people really need. I mean, if you get as far as to be actually invited to go out and you actually do go (a big achievement for someone with AS), then it doesn't take all that much brain power to realize that you can pass orange juice for a Screwdriver.

So here it is: what irks me about your AS related posts is that so many of them have you saying that people with AS do not have problems with empathizing and imagination; you're saying that Internet sites and textbooks have got it wrong. To quote your own words: "I've found most textbooks and internet sites hold incorrect information but then the idea is generally new...". That's from your profile page. And that's what I've seen you say in so many posts around TSR, coupled with the "no empathizing problems" bit.

You said: "When i post things about lots of information being incorrect, i don't literally mean 'it's wrong'". Do you know the definition of the word "incorrect"? It means false, not true, inaccurate. It means "wrong". If you say that it's incorrect to believe that Aspies have difficulties with empathizing then the only logical conclusion is that they do not have such difficulties. Which is not true. But the statements you're making make it sound true.

You also said: "This is how i acquire my information - not from reading books, but from different people." Then why the hell do you go around saying that (and I quote you!) "I've found most textbooks hold incorrect information"?! If you don't even read about Asperger's then how on Earth can you say that the books are wrong?!

From this it seems that you do understand that there are differences and not all people with AS are the same; some have difficulties with empathy/imagination and some don't. Yet you don't acknowledge that (at least I haven't seen it yet), you say it's incorrect to assume that Aspies can't be empathetic and then you give an example about your brother who apparently can be. If you know that people with Asperger's are all different then why don't you just say that? Why do you keep making definitive statements like the ones I've already mentioned, which are in fact wrong? There's a lot of confusion about what AS is like as it is and it seems to me that you're only adding to it by saying things that are incorrect and, based on your responses in this thread, not even what you actually mean.
As for the underlined part - lack of empathy doesn't mean "lack of emotions".

Well, I'm not much of an exception, I'd like to fit in too, you know. But many of us don't just like the drinking part, we don't like the whole clubbing/going out kind of thing. And when you're a weirdo who doesn't like these kinds of things then you're almost instantly excluded. When I got to university, I accepted an invitation to go get some takeout. Of course I really sucked at it - I couldn't really converse with anyone (best I could do was parrot someone else's "what course are you doing?"), I didn't understand their jokes, I didn't care for their topics of conversation, I was totally weirded out when the others suggested slumber party (then and there) to "bond", and I think my leaving without saying a thing to anyone was bit of a social faux pas. I was asked to go to a bar the next day and I turned them down. That was the extent of my communication with my flatmates until I moved out several months later. I was instantly ostracized because I wasn't what most young adults consider "normal". How can I avoid that? How can I make sure that it doesn't happen again this year? How can I be accepted by others and be included without having to engage in activities (clubbing, drinking) that I really do not like (a.k.a. hate, despise, find pointless to infinity in power of ten)? I think strategies to help deal with such situations is what people really need. I mean, if you get as far as to be actually invited to go out and you actually do go (a big achievement for someone with AS), then it doesn't take all that much brain power to realize that you can pass orange juice for a Screwdriver.

How can I avoid that? How can I make sure that it doesn't happen again this year? How can I be accepted by others and be included without having to engage in activities (clubbing, drinking) that I really do not like (a.k.a. hate, despise, find pointless to infinity in power of ten)? I think strategies to help deal with such situations is what people really need.

Perhaps my wording is not quite what i mean - I mean for example on the internet, the information that people with AS do not empathise under any circumstances. And this is incorrect, because some do!

When i actually post 'information incorrect', I don't literally mean it. I mean some is, but i mean it in more of a way that the reader realise that not everything they read is correct:
Aka, All Aspergers are different. Don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them.

Either way - If there's any advice you think you could offer to Aspie's starting out in University, please share - I'm sure those very anxious about University will appreciate it.

If something is not true then it must be false. So when there is a statement on the internet saying "people with Asperger's often have difficulties with empathizing" and you say that's not correct then the only logical conclusion is that "people with AS do not have difficulties with empathizing". There's no other way to spin it, there's no middle ground in true vs false. What you could say is that not all people with AS have problems with empathizing or eye contact or sarcasm, etc. Yet you don't say that, you don't say there's diversity, you don't actually say that people are different, instead you say "don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them". So when someone reads a list of AS symptoms and then reads you saying that "what you've read is not correct for every single one of them" then because you use the phrase "not correct" the only rational conclusion is that the list contains lies. Now, I have never seen any flat out lies about AS (incorrect assumptions yes, but people looking for information tend to turn to more "official" resources). Unlike what you said I've never encountered any piece of information saying that Aspies don't/can't do X "under any circumstances".

You say that the way you phrase things doesn't quite reflect what you think. Don't you think it should? People with AS are literal. I use words and phrases in their textbook definitions. When I read something I only read the words in front of me and I understand it based on the definitions of those words, I don't "read between the lines". How are people with AS - who are supposed to be your audience - meant to understand what you mean if you don't use clear unambiguous language? If you say "X is incorrect", but actually mean "not incorrect per se, but this sign may not be found in all with AS" then how are people supposed to know what you mean instead of what you write? Mindreading doesn't exist, not for anyone. And it really doesn't exist on the internet where all you're really communicating with is a block of text.



Here's some: go out clubbing in the middle of the night, drink yourself to the point of vomiting along with everyone else. Doesn't matter if those activities are pointless to the max for you and unlike everyone else you find them to be the antithesis of "fun", if you don't do it you'll be shunned by the "normal" cool kids. Or just go to university in a country where freshmen are more mature than the British counterparts and where the whole youth culture isn't centered around drinking yourself under the table.

PS. I will be doing biochemistry.

Don't you think it should? People with AS are literal

If something is not true then it must be false.

"don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them