TSR Christian Society

Jesus said that unless you are born again you cannot see (understand) the kingdom of God, so you cannot discern God's will.

He went on to detail that when a person is born of the Spirit, you hear the sound thereof.. in Acts when the Spirit was given it was known - they spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave them the utterance. (John 3:8, 12; Acts 2:4, 33, 39)

Do you preach this or are you deceived by one of Satan's ministers masquerading as "a minister of God"?

...I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Are you asking me whether I've had an experience like speaking in tongues as a "proof" of my salvation?

I'm sorry u don't understand.

I'll try to put it even more simply.

There is only one gospel so it must be the same as at "the beginning" when the church was set up - Acts 2.

Here all spoke in tongues and this was taken as God's independant witness of receiving his salvation.

Have you received the same confirmation sign?

There are several ways I could respond to this. No, I have not received the same confirmation sign, speaking in tongues. I have, however, had countless other signs and affirmations of my salvation, many many answers to prayer, etc. etc.

JB, please read Acts 8:5-16, just because a person has experienced answers to prayer does not mean they have actually received the Spirit (the new life, salvation - Romans 8:8-9).

JB, please read Acts 8:5-16, just because a person had had experienced answers to prayer does not mean they have actually received the Spirit (the new life, salvation - Romans 8:8-9).

Is this going to turn into one of these silly "you're not a proper Christian" things again? I think most of us here don't speak in tongues...

Can't we all just get along nicely without silly accusations?

Agreed! I speak in the tongue of English

That's the only tongue I speak too!

I went to church for the first time in ages and nothing bad happened

Nothing atm although I really should

I am so excited for what God will teach me over the next few days in my quiet time with him. Tomorrow I finish off proverbs with the latter part of Proverbs 31 (LOTS of prayer tomorrow morning ) and then the day after I start Ecclesiastes, which I've been wanting to study for ages.

Purely out of curiosity, and partly to change the subject somewhat, what is everyone else reading/studying, Bible-wise, at the moment?

I'm currently reading through what St John of the Cross says about the dark night of the soul. I'm quite good at mystical reading but not Bible reading

..

I do not think that speaking in tongues is either a requirement for or a necessary sign of salvation....

In 1 Corinthians 12:30, Paul makes it clear that speaking in tongues is not necessary for salvation
1 Corinthians 13 and 14, Paul makes it abundantly clear that love is the highest gift to be desired.

God's covenants began with a sign, the sign remains... the rainbow, circumcision etc.

In the Old Testament God's presenced himself in fire, Acts 2:3 shows the transferrence from Old to New Covenants. God's temple, his dwelling place is now in people who have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire.
The wind and fire happened just before the receiving of the Spirit and was a one-off event... receiving the Spirit, speaking in tongues remained.
Years later in Acts 19 Paul knew the believeers who he had re-baptised still hadn't received the Spirit, that's why he laid hands on them and that's how he knew precisely when they received the Spirit.

The New Covenant is described by the prophets aas a new heart, the sign of receiving that was, and is speaking in new tongue(s).

There is and cannot be any change:
"Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto." (Gal.3:15)

If anyone breaks this covenant, they are the "malicious" one!



"The gifts" are the meetings-use, *giving* to the church of what all Christians have for private use.

Ther gifts list (1 Corinthians 12:8 onwards) is not saying that different people get different attributes when they become Christians... read it again, it says "to one" is given the word of wisdom, "to another" the word of knowledge, to another faith etc.

You wouldn't say that only some Christians have each of these, would you?
How can you even become a Christian without them?

1 Corinthians begins by affirming that they all have all these attributes (1:4-7) - that's why there needs to be limitation & order when all meet, which is why it specifically says "to one", "to another"- in meetings only one person should speak at a time.

If it was true that only some of them could speak in tongues Paul wouldn't have to reason with them not to all do it in meetings - the problem could never arise!
Also his encouragement to pray in tongues would only be applicable to a certain clique in the church.
No, Corinthians agrees with Acts and other passages that show all all speaking in tongues

Acts also shows that it was known precisely when people received God's (invisible) Spirit, by his sign of tongues.
So, if it were possible to receive the Spirit (become a Christian in the true sense) without tongues they could not have made this judgement.

Like all my brothers & sisters, I pray in tongues & use the other attributes of God daily, but, in a meeting, I may or may not receive "a gift of tongues" or other gift.

If you don't accept the simple private/public distinction you aren't going to understand "the gifts" passage, or salvation, or love. Most religious organisations (I won't call them churches cos Jesus only set up 1 church, he isn't confused) have replaved the bible teaching on rceeiving the Spirit with "confess Jesus as your Lord & saviour and you are saved", or "pray the sinners prayer" etc, both man-made, words-only "gospels" that won't save you.

God's covenants began with a sign, the sign remains... the rainbow, circumcision etc.

In the Old Testament God's presenced himself in fire, Acts 2:3 shows the transferrence from Old to New Covenants. God's temple, his dwelling place is now in people who have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire.
The wind and fire happened just before the receiving of the Spirit and was a one-off event... receiving the Spirit, speaking in tongues remained.
Years later in Acts 19 Paul knew the believeers who he had re-baptised still hadn't received the Spirit, that's why he laid hands on them and that's how he knew precisely when they received the Spirit.

The New Covenant is described by the prophets aas a new heart, the sign of receiving that was, and is speaking in new tongue(s).

There is and cannot be any change:
"Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto." (Gal.3:15)

If anyone breaks this covenant, they are the "malicious" one!



"The gifts" are the meetings-use, *giving* to the church of what all Christians have for private use.

Ther gifts list (1 Corinthians 12:8 onwards) is not saying that different people get different attributes when they become Christians... read it again, it says "to one" is given the word of wisdom, "to another" the word of knowledge, to another faith etc.

You wouldn't say that only some Christians have each of these, would you?
How can you even become a Christian without them?

1 Corinthians begins by affirming that they all have all these attributes (1:4-7) - that's why there needs to be limitation & order when all meet, which is why it specifically says "to one", "to another"- in meetings only one person should speak at a time.

If it was true that only some of them could speak in tongues Paul wouldn't have to reason with them not to all do it in meetings - the problem could never arise!
Also his encouragement to pray in tongues would only be applicable to a certain clique in the church.
No, Corinthians agrees with Acts and other passages that show all all speaking in tongues

Acts also shows that it was known precisely when people received God's (invisible) Spirit, by his sign of tongues.
So, if it were possible to receive the Spirit (become a Christian in the true sense) without tongues they could not have made this judgement.

Like all my brothers & sisters, I pray in tongues & use the other attributes of God daily, but, in a meeting, I may or may not receive "a gift of tongues" or other gift.

If you don't accept the simple private/public distinction you aren't going to understand "the gifts" passage, or salvation, or love. Most religious organisations (I won't call them churches cos Jesus only set up 1 church, he isn't confused) have replaved the bible teaching on rceeiving the Spirit with "confess Jesus as your Lord & saviour and you are saved", or "pray the sinners prayer" etc, both man-made, words-only "gospels" that won't save you.

God's covenants began with a sign, the sign remains... the rainbow, circumcision etc.

In the Old Testament God's presenced himself in fire, Acts 2:3 shows the transferrence from Old to New Covenants. God's temple, his dwelling place is now in people who have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire.
The wind and fire happened just before the receiving of the Spirit and was a one-off event... receiving the Spirit, speaking in tongues remained.
Years later in Acts 19 Paul knew the believeers who he had re-baptised still hadn't received the Spirit, that's why he laid hands on them and that's how he knew precisely when they received the Spirit.

The New Covenant is described by the prophets aas a new heart, the sign of receiving that was, and is speaking in new tongue(s).

There is and cannot be any change:
"Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto." (Gal.3:15)

If anyone breaks this covenant, they are the "malicious" one!



"The gifts" are the meetings-use, *giving* to the church of what all Christians have for private use.

Ther gifts list (1 Corinthians 12:8 onwards) is not saying that different people get different attributes when they become Christians... read it again, it says "to one" is given the word of wisdom, "to another" the word of knowledge, to another faith etc.

You wouldn't say that only some Christians have each of these, would you?
How can you even become a Christian without them?

1 Corinthians begins by affirming that they all have all these attributes (1:4-7) - that's why there needs to be limitation & order when all meet, which is why it specifically says "to one", "to another"- in meetings only one person should speak at a time.

If it was true that only some of them could speak in tongues Paul wouldn't have to reason with them not to all do it in meetings - the problem could never arise!
Also his encouragement to pray in tongues would only be applicable to a certain clique in the church.
No, Corinthians agrees with Acts and other passages that show all all speaking in tongues

Acts also shows that it was known precisely when people received God's (invisible) Spirit, by his sign of tongues.
So, if it were possible to receive the Spirit (become a Christian in the true sense) without tongues they could not have made this judgement.

Like all my brothers & sisters, I pray in tongues & use the other attributes of God daily, but, in a meeting, I may or may not receive "a gift of tongues" or other gift.

If you don't accept the simple private/public distinction you aren't going to understand "the gifts" passage, or salvation, or love. Most religious organisations (I won't call them churches cos Jesus only set up 1 church, he isn't confused) have replaved the bible teaching on rceeiving the Spirit with "confess Jesus as your Lord & saviour and you are saved", or "pray the sinners prayer" etc, both man-made, words-only "gospels" that won't save you.

Thank you for this post. I disagree with some of your points and interpretations, but I will definitely prayerfully reconsider my former views (which I have already stated). I have asked for humility from the Lord as we have been discussing this, and he has convicted me that the most humble thing to do at this point is to graciously back out of this discussion (2 Tim 2:22).

I do not believe that a mere confession of Jesus as Lord and saviour or praying of the sinners prayer will save anyone, it is to do with the heart, and scripture constantly and consistently shows that belief in the heart is what saves somebody. This is what I have, an earnest belief in Jesus as my saviour, joy, treasure and Lord.