Big 4 and CRB Checks

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I am in a similar position as I have a (spent) conditional discharge for common assault. For anything involving accountancy/acturarial or many other professional services, the ROA does not apply and they can see your entire record through standard disclosure (i.e. offences never become spent). Presumably, this was implemented to ensure that all members had no serious fraud/theft charges on record, but it seems that the various bodies and employers are determined to take into account other irrelevant offences that have no bearing of the employee's ability to do the job.

Now, the interesting bit is how they word the question: if they ask if you have had any criminal CONVICTIONS only, then if you have a caution/reprimand/warning/etc. then you can legally answer no. Same if you have been bound over / received an absolute or conditional discharge.

The part about the absolute / conditional discharge was recently challenged in court. A lady applied for a job with the Met Police having a previous conditional discharge on file. Since the ROA does not apply for police jobs, the conditional discharge showed up on file and she was sacked and prosecuted for not disclosing it. However, it was challenged in court that since the question asked for previous CONVICTIONS, she had answered the question truthfully.

See R v Patel [2006] EWCA Crim 2689

The ICAEW's stance is "youthful exuberance" is ok, i.e. grafitti, criminal damage etc. Any sort of conviction for a violent crime I imagine most firms won't let you in. It is to do with bringing the firm and/or profession into disrepute, so although I agree it may not affect the employees ability to do the job it can have an adverse effect on the firm.

Reply 61

nav1980

No it is not "youthful exuberance".

The Kaplan tutors spout lots of anecdotes which are usually nonsensical...to make things seem vaguely interesting.

My group was told an entire Deloitte class stripped off and jumped into the fountains at Trafalgar Square after the final case study - they were photographed and put in the Daily Mail, the ICAEW made them re-sit every exam from scratch to learn about "ethics" for bringing the profession into disrepute.

Yeah right...

The ICAEW is just like every other professional body - CIMA/ACCA, police, teaching, general medical council etc. It is a case by case basis I can't imagine anyone soming to this thread will have a conviction that would be deemed unacceptable by the ICAEW.

As for getting into firms, they want to screen you out if at all possible, they want to sack you if at all possible, all they are interested in is making money and reducing costs.

Any excuse will see you shown the door - the guy who tweeted he was going to blow up Robin Hood Airport when his flight was cancelled was a trainee accountant, charged in court so they used it as an excuse to sack him.

Why? Not because it brings the firm into disrepute, but becuase they can get rid of him and get some other intern to do the donkey work.

Had he been a good performer - he would not have been shown the door, same goes for exam failure policy.

Accountancy is broadly speaking skating a fine line in tax evasion/avoidance or rubber stamping accounts in order to get more billable work. As such most firms are continually in court/facing fines when clients come a cropper or go belly up.

No one cares about your petty conviction bringing the firm into "disrepute" - you are a nobody in the firm - their reputation is covered in sh*t anyway, but who else is there to do the work?!

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 62

Sin10

Hi Nav and others,

your situation is vaguely similar to mine. I was formerley registered with the fsa and i didnt disclose my caution for possession of drugs (less than 5 yrs old).

However i am now being relicenced and i realising the importance of full honest disclosure i have revealed absolutely everything , including some spent convictions for drunk and disorderley.

im worried they may now barr me from entry on the basis i didnt previously disclose. Even though i am now being open and honest.

what do you think, its similar to your situation. To others - please dont guess as this adds to the confusion

Reply 63

nav1980

Best thing to do is prepare for the worst - get any supporting documentation that could support why you didn't disclose first time round and cast the actual events in a good light. Perhaps even some nonsense about stress/financial problems at the time you failed to disclose which made you panic about it.

My drink drive attracted no penalty points and only a £100 fine - I explained I had moved the car to unblock a fire exit for the bar I worked in and was stopped simply because it was 3am in the morning and I'd come out the bar. This is completely made up of course.

I also mentioned the fact that disclosure scotland and the Police refuse to give you copies of my CRB, and they told me you should say "no" providing your conviction is spent.

Maybe tell them you got advice from a solicitor/police friend saying its only relevant convictions - and it was bad advice...I mentioned a previous ACA trainee friend said it was only relevant convictions.

Also include anything else that can atest to your good character - I sent in my spotless credit history and personal reference from a Doctor friend.

Good luck - do post the outcome on here for others.

Reply 64

Sin10

Some good ideas there that i will use. I just wish i knew if they checked old successful applications, if they dont then i think im ok. but knowing my luck they will.

I havent seen my doctor in 8 years, if i can show them a medical record which reflects this, thats hardly like someone who has a drug problem. Maybe im clutching at straws, but ill try anything.

You know what the sad thing is, i genuinely was told by my solictor (at the magistrate) that it wasnt a criminal record and it was a trivial thing that wouldnt stop my career.

God sake one solicitor friend of mine even told me to use my middle name instead of my last name. That was never going to work, and thank god i didnt try.

I think its safe to say no one on here would ever get mixed up in these drink fueled incidents if had time again.

Reply 65

stanmoor

It's a caution for possession, it's not classed as a conviction, so I honestly wouldn't worry. I think cautions only appear on Enhanced CRBs - does your company do an enhanced check? (usually for senior positions, working with kids etc).

Just put it down to 'youthful exuberance' or whatever they call it. You got in with the wrong crowd at school / uni etc, tried it once and got caught. Never done it again. Easy :smile:

Reply 66

nav1980

Original post by Sin10

They really aren't bothered about your drug use or the incidents you've had - the issue is going to be - you lied on application - that's what you have to explain away.

A spotless credit history and personal references from respected professionals at work or in your private life shows you are normally of good character, not a liar or fraudster and are responsible - no CCJS etc.

Coupled with a bit of blag about misundertanding what you had to declare should see you through.

As you've told them now rather than them tripping over you - I think you'll be fine.

Try not to panic - they'll take ages sending it through their admin people and make you nervous - don't worry just be prepared.

You can always appeal if you are unlucky - at which point you can get a decent solicitor who regularly handles professional conduct cases to represent you, who'll be able to drag up past cases and argue your position effectively.