should the rich pay more tax?

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I would actually say that in this country people seem to respect the rich and dislike the poor, look at all the comments on this forum for example

In most cases that i've seen it seems as though the rich dislike the poor, as they feel they're paying for them or something stupid like that, and then it seems to be the financially comfortable middle-class people that dislike the rich.

I've never seen many cases of truly poor and struggling people feeling hatred towards richer people, they just seem to get on with what they're doing and try and get by.

Reply 21

WelshBluebird

Original post by Akbar2k7

I would rep you again But I'm all out, I kind of realised Im letting my own bias blur the truth I'm like one of those scary dictators who cause World wars I need to chill don't I?

well Im going off back to trig revision.

I think the problem is that it is all too easy to fall back on stereotypes / generalisations. We all do it. Myself included.

Of course, the reality is that you get bad apples wherever. The recent riots have proven that (look at the backgrounds of some of the rioters - it may shock you!). Of course, that applies to myself too.

A certain person who has posted in this thread thinks I am anti rich. That is not true. If someone earns their money, then fair enough. My problem is that many people (like the person who has posted on this thread) have not earned their money. They are simply just lucky. In the same way someone born into a poor family is unlucky.

I think there is an argument to be made that the rich are taxed too highly. The problem is how else do we make taxation fair (a flat rate is not fair because it would affect the poor more), and how else do we ensure we have enough tax revenue to keep our society working (Because reducing tax on the rich would mean even greater chaos for out public finances).

Reply 22

Bulbasaur

Original post by WelshBluebird

Again a false assumption. Most poor people are not bullies.

Again another false assumption. Being poor does not mean you are a chav.

Accurate, but only because those born poor are more likely to die poor (and those rich are more likely to die rich). We have a serious lack of social mobility in this country.

True for some. Not true for others.

Again a false assumption as most poor people are not bullies. Some are. Just as some rich people are.

Exactly.

Not always.

Again, you are assuming all poor people are chavs.

Basically, you hate rich people? For the statement about bankers what would've been more appropriate is what you said about the opportunities, "true for some and not true for others", and argued against stereotypes of the poor, but reinforced those of the rich.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 23

WelshBluebird

Original post by Bulbasaur

Basically, you hate rich people?

As above.
And indeed, I am puzzled at how you got that assumptions out of the post you quoted (as in that post I was just questioning the idea that all bullies are poor and that being poor means you are a chav).

Reply 24

Steevee

You've got more so we can take more.

It's an attitude that really digusts me. What disgusts me far more though, is people that say the rich don't pay their way enough, and it should be the rich feeling the effects of the Austerity measures, and the rich should face harsher treatment than the poor! What these people fail to recognise is that the rich are already paying for them! Eugh. I understand why it is somewhat neccesary for the rich to be taxed more, doesn't mean I have to like it.

Reply 25

quattro94

I find it rather demoralising to think that as someone who is aiming to do the very best that I can and hopefully earn a good wage as a reward, that I will pay for certain members of society. I live between a modern housing estate and council houses. The difference is night and day. Walking through the council estate is not recommended at night if you wish to see the next sunrise. There are elements (not all) of society that think that it is acceptable for them to do as they please, drink excessively, breed like it's going out of fashion and then release the poor offspring into the world where they undoubtedly cause trouble. Chavs are on the increase and the problem is exasperated by the sense of entitlement. My fathers side of the family are working class, lived on council estates and you could not wish to meet nicer people yet the people down the road are a different breed. Society is becoming sick and there doesn't seem to be a cure.

Reply 26

zafaru123

Well, one of my neighbours earns millions as an investment banker at Credit Suisse and gets taxed way over 50%. What do you want, 99% tax for the rich? Don't be absurd.

EDIT: The area I live in is populated by either millionaires or students who live in halls of residence, I'm not super rich or anything that I live next to people this.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 27

Erich Hartmann

Original post by hamix

The rich evidently have more money, so on that basis they can be taxed.

But I find we as British envy/detest the rich a lot (at least speaking badly of wealthy people is common). Do people only support higher taxes on rich people since they want them to "pay" for being rich?

We should first question why are we wanting to tax the rich, is it to redistribute wealth? You generally can't redistribute wealth through taxation. Society doesn't owe the less well off a living and neither do you owe anyone anything, therefore its not the business of the rich to help the poor if they don't want to.

Is it to reduce the deficit? It's actually far more effective for a government to curtail and control their spendings rather than raise taxes, otherwise someday we would see the return of the 1970s. Think about it this way, a person loves to eat and eat, as a result gets fatter in addition to health complication causing all kinds of bills, he or she could seek out more funds if he has the means or mooch of it or he could eat less and do more exercise.... in state terms all it means is seeking the best value possible, somehow the term value was lost by the previous inept government.

Is it to pay down or off debts? There are plenty of other ways to do it, you don't necessarily have to raise the amount of taxes to do it, you might even get a better tax yield by closing some of the loopholes or avoidance schemes....granted the rich and wealthy could always find ways and means around it. But the debts do need to be paid, however it should come as an austerity on those who rely most on the state, it is after all state debts not private debts.

Taxing the rich, are you trying to tax their wealth or their income? If you're trying to tax their wealth then in essence that's a form of double taxation, it's fairly easy to move wealth out of the reach of the taxman.........thankfully :biggrin:

Income, while it is true the rich could afford to pay more in taxes, it isn't right to steal now is it? We come from a society where we praise all things being equal, but somehow we don't see it wrong to charge someone more for something while another could get it for free?

The rich-envy and rich-haters, they have always existed in this society.... and for that matter in plenty of societies around the world. In this country envy and jealousy is generally one of the largest drawback of this society, somewhat the reason why successful politicians and PMs often get replaced.

Original post by GQ.

I would prefer it if the tax % was the same for all earners. That way the rich still get taxed more but not by a ridiculous amount. Just seems counter-intuitive. You work hard and then get about 40% of your salary taken away.

You just described what is known as a flat tax system :smile:

It's actually an amazingly good system as seen in many of the now wealthier ex-Soviet bloc states.

Reply 28

NateRivers

A crackdown on the undeserving poor would be nice. The best way to do that however I'm not to sure...

Reply 29

IB_19

Original post by quattro94

You've just described the thriving underclass. It's very shocking and what's more the taxpayer are forced to give them a living and they are not appreciative in the slightest. They are anti-social, tasteless, anti-wealth, workshy and it seems to be growing. The UK is a bit of a joke where you're punished for your success. It is a sad world.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 30

Chaofan88

I think everyone should pay tax relative to what they earn. Perhaps it could be increased for the super rich, but I'm not sure. But seriously, not every rich person is hardworking and not every poorman is lazy. Just think of the thousands of lazy arses sitting on their inheritance and not doing anything to stretch themselves and the thousand of poor who work hard at their low paying jobs.

Reply 31

Bonged.

Original post by GQ.

How do you define working hard? I imagine a nurse works harder than a banker.

Reply 32

Burbeary

Rich people make all of their money from poor people, if they would rather work a ****ty 9-5 job to be taxed less, then that's their choice.

Reply 33

username458263

Original post by Otkem

And I think they get they more than enough.

Did you watch the BBC documentary "Poor Kids" in June? You certainly seem interested in the topic, judging from your sig and your frequent posts on this matter.

I defy you to say you'd happily switch places with that little girl in the damp flats in Glasgow, or the boy who gets bullied because he has to wear his sister's blouse to school and who got a haircut for his birthday. If you think those children are treated fairly, **** you.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 34

soffiapink

we need to get rid of this common consensus that focuses on getting the rich to pay for the poor. As it is, they put the most money into the system and use it the least!

Reply 35

mbranson

Rich should pay more than they do currently, end of.

Reply 36

GQ.

Original post by Bonged.

How do you define working hard? I imagine a nurse works harder than a banker.

That again comes down to how you define working hard. Yes a nurse works hard and her job is probably more "worth while". But I doubt a nurse works as hard as a banker. And by banker I mean the guys earning loads of money. They work crazy hours.

Reply 37

FrigidSymphony

Wealth is accumulated by creating social disparity. The minority of individuals who gain wealth not only keep wealth for themselves, but diminish the chances of everyone else to improve their situation. Rich people don't want other people to be able to get rich as well, they want to get richer themselves and keep it all. They don't want to create jobs or require security and safety for their employees, they want the cheapest way to make a profit.

Reply 38

L i b

Original post by WelshBluebird

2 - Many rich people do work for their pay. But many poor people work hard too, and get grossly underpaid. Also many rich people don't work for their money.

Grossly underpaid? By what standard?

Reply 39

shiko098

There is a very jaded line in this country as to what people define as Rich or Poor, to 90% of people it is a very black and white subject, your either outrageously poor, or your a massively rich man. However this couldn't be further from the truth, im in i state where i would say 5% of other people are in. I was very lucky and bought up in a family where my rents were both very career focused and managed to earn a joint income for the house of around 60k. My father being the largest contributor to that figure, and due to his earnings he is absolutely crippled with tax so when a mortgage is paid for, household bills, and tax is taken away there is next to nothing left.

However in most cases because the figure is around 60k it has meant i am void of any sort of financial help in order to live in at university. Student finance deem my family as rich and well off, and they think 'Sure! He can just get mummy and daddy to pay!' sadly that couldn't be further from the truth, there is no money to go around what so ever.

Y'see what im trying to say is a lot of the time there is a very unsung middle ground where taxing has gone completely out of control. In this sort of situation i would say, the poorest of the poor should be given support, and the richest of the rich should be made to pay there dues. Because in most cases its that 5% bracket of people in the middle that find it hard going when it comes to things like sending there kids to uni.

A good suggestion would be to keep the tax number the same, because as the wages rise they pay more anyway. And a lot of people tend to forget, the mega rich do supply jobs to the working class in a lot of cases. And if the rich get taxed more and more they are more liable to be a lot more frugal in investing money in other people. Its the nature of capitalism...

There are some great thoughts emerging on this page, but a lot of people do need to open there eyes and look at each side of the coin, including that middle ground that feel the full wrath of tax! :wink: