People don't like sciences because they don't understand it?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ-g0OJupnA
^ Michael Gove speaking about this.
^ Michael Gove speaking about this.
Original post by Sagacious
i've got to ask a potentially really stupid question.. is sudoku anything like real maths? because i enjoy doing those, but i was a complete mickey mouse at maths at school. =P
Original post by raspberryruffle
i've got to ask a potentially really stupid question.. is sudoku anything like real maths? because i enjoy doing those, but i was a complete mickey mouse at maths at school. =P
aparently sudoku has some relations to computer science maths, no idea how though
Original post by raspberryruffle
i've got to ask a potentially really stupid question.. is sudoku anything like real maths? because i enjoy doing those, but i was a complete mickey mouse at maths at school. =P
It's not maths just because it contains numbers. However, it makes your brain more methodical/systematic, which will help you a great deal in Maths. It's like a chain-effect. Chess has the same effect; coupled with strategic thinking.
I dislike the sciences in general and in particular maths, but until I was allowed to drop them I won the subject awards every year all the way through school. 
...upon rereading that, I now understand why all the wannabe scientists in my year hated me with a burning passion.
...upon rereading that, I now understand why all the wannabe scientists in my year hated me with a burning passion.
Original post by Einheri
I think this is a rather silly argument. I could turn around and say that people choose to take sciences because they don't understand literary theory or historiography.
I had no problem understanding sciences but it never truly interested me. As a teenager I could spend my whole weekend reading Beowulf or a Norse saga (which in retrospect is probably why I didn't get laid until I was 18, haha). In fact I first read Brennu-Njáls saga when I should have been memorising the periodic table - I know which I find more intriguing (so good thing I'm a Medievalist rather than a Chemist, eh?).
I had no problem understanding sciences but it never truly interested me. As a teenager I could spend my whole weekend reading Beowulf or a Norse saga (which in retrospect is probably why I didn't get laid until I was 18, haha). In fact I first read Brennu-Njáls saga when I should have been memorising the periodic table - I know which I find more intriguing (so good thing I'm a Medievalist rather than a Chemist, eh?).
That's a good point. When it comes to the likes of literary theory (English grad here) not everyone can just pick up a book and read.
In the same resepct, although it is language, I can't give a maths student Wulf and Eadwacer or Cynewulf and Cyneheard in Anglo-Saxon and expect them to understand it straight off,
I personally think a lot of it is in large part down to the way the sciences are taught. I think a lot of us will agree that definitely at GCSE and to an extent at A Level, sciences are taught in terms of 'how to pass' rather than an attempt to cultivate a genuine interest the subjects. At least that's what I found.
I got A/A* at GCSE in the sciences, but found the actual process of learning it the the classroom excruciatingly dull and found myself in the exam, quite literally ticking boxes. I continued with Chemistry to AS, and again, the way it was taught, the utter dullness of the subject matter, the lack of attempts to engage students like me who were not yet resolute in going down a scientific path at university completely killed any spark of interest I had in pursuing it further.
Comparatively, in history, in english lit, I found a bit more freedom. More discussion, more debate in classes, subject matter I loved etc. My teachers were great and really pushed me to think outside the box a bit, picked up on areas that interested me and encouraged me to look into it further, recommended books, discussed ideas, not just facts etc. For me the experience was quite inspiring and open in contrast to how my science lessons were stifling.
Science in itself covers so much it can't possibly be uninteresting, unfortunately the exams and the teaching of it (and a lot of other subjects) leaves much to be desired (not always - I mean, there are some great teachers out there, not enough though IMO).
I got A/A* at GCSE in the sciences, but found the actual process of learning it the the classroom excruciatingly dull and found myself in the exam, quite literally ticking boxes. I continued with Chemistry to AS, and again, the way it was taught, the utter dullness of the subject matter, the lack of attempts to engage students like me who were not yet resolute in going down a scientific path at university completely killed any spark of interest I had in pursuing it further.
Comparatively, in history, in english lit, I found a bit more freedom. More discussion, more debate in classes, subject matter I loved etc. My teachers were great and really pushed me to think outside the box a bit, picked up on areas that interested me and encouraged me to look into it further, recommended books, discussed ideas, not just facts etc. For me the experience was quite inspiring and open in contrast to how my science lessons were stifling.
Science in itself covers so much it can't possibly be uninteresting, unfortunately the exams and the teaching of it (and a lot of other subjects) leaves much to be desired (not always - I mean, there are some great teachers out there, not enough though IMO).
Original post by alphabet
Sounds like you could do with familiarising yourself with the humanities side of academia before you declare people are too stupid and caught up in their arty brains to comprehend maths. If you must know, I study Physics, Maths, History and Geography at A2, and what I've found is that most people have a clear distinction of where they lie of the academic spectrum, even if they don't know it, whether it be humanities or the sciences. Look around in your maths class. Are most of your classmates studying other science subjects? Probably. Go to an english class, are there many people there studying a science? Probably not. I, for example am the only student studying history in my physics class! But just because people feel more comfortable in the sciences or humanities (just as you are) that absolutely does not mean "the other people" are somehow intellectually inferior.
Don't go around accusing me of insulting those in the arts and humanities. I never said anyone was inferior or stupid.
All I was doing is try to find an explanantion to the trends we are seeing in the subject/course choices made by students. I offered my own 'theory' and I don't think its too unreasonable or offensive to the point that you think I'm suggesting arts and humanities students are 'intellectually inferior'. I respect all subjects, they are all difficult in their own way. The point I was making, is that concepts in sciences are more difficult to understand, and perhaps this combined with a seemingly lower quality of teaching in this area, has led to a lack of understanding of science. Like I said, subjects like History, Economics and English are difficult in their own way, but theres nothing conceptually difficult to understand. I ask you this, what concepts are there in history which is difficult? None, certainly none which is comparable to calculus for example in maths. Now, let me make it clear, I am not insulting history whatsoever. I fully understand that the techniques in critically examining the reliability of sources in history and writing a balanced essay are difficult, perhaps more so, or less so than understanding nuclear reactions in physics - totally depends who you are. But the point is that, not being able to understand those techniques in history will not stop you from picking up a history book in the library and understanding it, whereas if you don't understand the fundermental concepts in sciences, you will definetly struggle with even an introductory book in this area, hence a frustration here born from lack of understanding would deter people from taking it further on in their studies. Not so offensive, right?
You asked about my maths class, well there are a mixture, perhaps 60-40 in favour of sciences. There are many people also doing economics and/or physology in the mix, perhaps they want to take those subjects onto university, and I understand that maths is a requirement. Thats irrelevant anyway, don't know why you raised this.
(edited 12 years ago)
What annoys me about conspiracy theories is that people believe that these apparently all powerful and incredibly secretive people have left cryptic clues lying about all over the place to try and hint at what is going and risk getting found out. It's like tapping someone on the opposite shoulder and acting like it wasn't you.
I don't think it's that they don't understand it, just they don't want to do it. I'm not adverse to science, I did Biology at A-level but my uni course in English Lit + Philosophy becuase I enjoy it more. My new tutor was actually telling us about the divide between Sciences and the Arts in academia today.
Original post by notastampcollector
And some people have the very good fortune of having both!
This! We can't split the world in two down that line
(... I've spent all week provoking confusion when I tell people I'm studying maths with modern languages
)Original post by SwingOnTheSpiral88
I've never heard of that condition before but it must be frustrating as hell.
Well if you're interested, there are several conditions which have it as it as a symptom. I have mild SLE (lupus) which is I guess why it's not very heard of, as most people who get diagnosed have a more severe form which is potentially life threatening which is probabaly more of concern :P Also Hughes syndrome which goes with SLE can cause it (I apparently have this too) and actually has an explantion of the brain fog ( because the blood is too 'sticky' not enough oxygen gets to the brain) but again people are probably more concerned with the blood clots associated with that. I also know M.E/CFS suffers have it as a symptom, but from what I've heard, most people with that can barely walk,which is probabaly more debilitating for day to day functioning :P So yes it is frustrating as hell! However, unfortunetly most people with the type of conditions which cause it, have bigger fish to fry if that makes sense?
Original post by fuzzybear
But relative to the arts and humanities, science subjects clearly aren't as popular. The only exception is maths. I agree with what you said about mfl, although they seem neither a science, art or humanity subject. But thats just my opinion. What I said about a lack of undrstanding isn't just restricted to sciences, this 'theory' of mine 
can be applied to any subject. I should have included mfl in my original post.
can be applied to any subject. I should have included mfl in my original post.Hmm. Well, obviously I can only speak reflecting on the people I know, but it seems like the most popular subjects at my college are actually sciences & maths, followed by (oddly) psychology and law. Not many people seem to be taking the usual history, geography, RS. So at my school at least I would say sciences are actually more popular. I'd be interested to know if this varied by location though.
I'm taking 4 sciences at AS (Maths/Further Maths, Physics and Geology).
Personally I like sciences because of the type of thinking involved. There tends to be a right/wrong answer and no inbetween bits, theres little proper writing, and I just like maths. I find it much more interesting learning about how our world was created (geology), than writing about why someone wrote a book for example.
I dislike humanties/arts in general (Aside from Geography and art), which was why I didn't take any of them to AS. For example, I dislike English, as I'd rather read a book or poem and enjoy it, and appreciate it, than tear it appart and start writing about the devices used, or why x was written instead of y - BOOKS WERE WRITTEN TO BE READ, NOT WRITTEN ABOUT! History is another subject I dislike from this group - I find it interesting to read about, but I sure as hell don't want to examine 56 different sources, think about where each is right/wrong, infer some stuff from them, then write an essay.
RE/RS: I dislike this subject because I don't see the point. I don't want to learn about why people worship a sky fairy, I couldn't care less.
Sorry if I waffled there, or offended anyone (?)
I'm like this! Maybe not this extreme, but I certainly don't like going over a page writing about something when I can summarise it much quicker and get it done in half a page.
THIS! I would've loved the chance in year 10/11 to redo my foundation GCSE in french and get an A/A* to replace my C. But only 4 others applied for it so it didn't run. When I asked people in year 9 why they weren't trying for the C in it*, this was the exact response I got!
*The top set in my year all got entered for the foundation papers, only one person passed.
It may be a joke, but its true!
Personally I like sciences because of the type of thinking involved. There tends to be a right/wrong answer and no inbetween bits, theres little proper writing, and I just like maths. I find it much more interesting learning about how our world was created (geology), than writing about why someone wrote a book for example.
I dislike humanties/arts in general (Aside from Geography and art), which was why I didn't take any of them to AS. For example, I dislike English, as I'd rather read a book or poem and enjoy it, and appreciate it, than tear it appart and start writing about the devices used, or why x was written instead of y - BOOKS WERE WRITTEN TO BE READ, NOT WRITTEN ABOUT! History is another subject I dislike from this group - I find it interesting to read about, but I sure as hell don't want to examine 56 different sources, think about where each is right/wrong, infer some stuff from them, then write an essay.
RE/RS: I dislike this subject because I don't see the point. I don't want to learn about why people worship a sky fairy, I couldn't care less.
Sorry if I waffled there, or offended anyone (?)
Original post by fuzzybear
Yeah I was going to put it also works the other way round. There are some people in my physics class who seem to have a fear of writing anything longer than 3 sentences. Similarly, maybe they don't understand how to write essays, etc. 
but I was mainly drawing on my own experience with maths.
but I was mainly drawing on my own experience with maths.
I'm like this! Maybe not this extreme, but I certainly don't like going over a page writing about something when I can summarise it much quicker and get it done in half a page.
Original post by qwertyuiop1993
So true...the amount of times I've heard, "I'm English, why would I speak French....it's too much bother" is ridiculous...
THIS! I would've loved the chance in year 10/11 to redo my foundation GCSE in french and get an A/A* to replace my C. But only 4 others applied for it so it didn't run. When I asked people in year 9 why they weren't trying for the C in it*, this was the exact response I got!
*The top set in my year all got entered for the foundation papers, only one person passed.
Original post by Etoile
We have a joke,
What do you call someone who speaks 4 or more languages? Multilingual or polyglot.
Someone who speaks 3 languages? Trilingual.
Someone who speaks 2 languages? Bilingual.
Someone who speaks 1 language? English.
I say joke...
But anyway, very true. People just don't know what they're missing out on!
What do you call someone who speaks 4 or more languages? Multilingual or polyglot.
Someone who speaks 3 languages? Trilingual.
Someone who speaks 2 languages? Bilingual.
Someone who speaks 1 language? English.
I say joke...
But anyway, very true. People just don't know what they're missing out on!
It may be a joke, but its true!
In my school it's more or less equal between sciences and english/humanities, I'd say. Classes are more or less equal sizes for all our subjects (I'm a 6th year in Scotland by the way, so this is Highers/Advanced Highers). I would say that subjects like English and History and generally considered to be harder, since English at least is more subjective and so it's harder to find out what the exam board consider a right or wrong answer. Having said that, I had a kind of formula for my Higher English essays that worked really well. But other people I know struggled with it, and although some may laugh, I've heard that media studies is trickier than it sounds. Never studied it though, can't comment.
And isn't it insulting people's intelligence to assume that they are effectively "incapable" of understanding a basic science book? Because that's rubbish. I know plenty of people who would read books about science in primary school and understand it. Think of biology, how hard is it to understand that the heart pumps blood round the body, the lungs take in air and the brain sends information round the body and controls other body functions and how we think? Most children understand that, once they've learned it. And as for documentaries, did anyone else watch those Chemistry documentaries a while ago? I saw the one about the periodic table. Call me a nerd, but I was totally into that, my chemistry class were all discussing it, it was great.
And isn't it insulting people's intelligence to assume that they are effectively "incapable" of understanding a basic science book? Because that's rubbish. I know plenty of people who would read books about science in primary school and understand it. Think of biology, how hard is it to understand that the heart pumps blood round the body, the lungs take in air and the brain sends information round the body and controls other body functions and how we think? Most children understand that, once they've learned it. And as for documentaries, did anyone else watch those Chemistry documentaries a while ago? I saw the one about the periodic table. Call me a nerd, but I was totally into that, my chemistry class were all discussing it, it was great.
Original post by George K
I'm taking 4 sciences at AS (Maths/Further Maths, Physics and Geology).
My dad's a geologist and he told me not to take it because it wasn't a proper science. This is coming from a man with a PhD in the damn subject. Just sayin'. In my mind it's still a kind of science, same as psychology, there are scientific things involved in it, but my parents tend to view it as more of a humanity, likewise with Geography.Original post by fuzzybear
Repped, totally agree with that. Practicals are such a drag on everything. Maths only starts to get remotely interesting in Alevel and even that largely depends on having a decent enthusatic teacher 
.
.What kind of school do you go to where practicals are a drag? They're great! My Chemistry teacher was your classic mad scientist, he did one experiment which resulted in the roof of our classroom being peppered with various corks.
And he did the one with the powder and fire (he claims it's how he lost half his hair), and the ester experiments I did last year were great fun. I made one that smelt like deep heat. Mmmmm. 
Original post by aspirinpharmacist My dad's a geologist and he told me not to take it because it wasn't a proper science. This is coming from a man with a PhD in the damn subject. Just sayin'. In my mind it's still a kind of science, same as psychology, there are scientific things involved in it, but my parents tend to view it as more of a humanity, likewise with Geography.
My dad's a geologist and he told me not to take it because it wasn't a proper science. This is coming from a man with a PhD in the damn subject. Just sayin'. In my mind it's still a kind of science, same as psychology, there are scientific things involved in it, but my parents tend to view it as more of a humanity, likewise with Geography.Its part of the science department in my college, and its basically the science behind physical geography (to an extent), so why shouldn't it be one? I know it doesn't count as a science when applying for Natsci at Cambridge for example (as far as I know). If anything, its more of a science than Maths if you ask me. (Maths can be applied to sciences, but aside from the mechanics modules, its not really related directly)
Original post by George K
Its part of the science department in my college, and its basically the science behind physical geography (to an extent), so why shouldn't it be one? I know it doesn't count as a science when applying for Natsci at Cambridge for example (as far as I know). If anything, its more of a science than Maths if you ask me. (Maths can be applied to sciences, but aside from the mechanics modules, its not really related directly)
Its part of the science department in my college, and its basically the science behind physical geography (to an extent), so why shouldn't it be one? I know it doesn't count as a science when applying for Natsci at Cambridge for example (as far as I know). If anything, its more of a science than Maths if you ask me. (Maths can be applied to sciences, but aside from the mechanics modules, its not really related directly)
Oh, it's definitely a science in my opinion, just a sort of "diluted" one, I guess. Since you're also doing several sciences I suppose you've seen how they're all just applied something or other. There's a picture about it somewhere, but since I don't know where it is, I'll just copy it here.
Geology=Applied Geography
Geography/Psychology=Applied Biology (in my head, anyway)
Biology=Applied Chemistry
Chemistry=Applied Physics
Physics=Applied Maths
Maths is kind of the core of all sciences, since it's used in every other science, and those sciences wouldn't work without it.
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