TSR Christian Society

Original post by adamrules247

They seem to be stalking us in the Atheism Soc :teehee:

Wow, that's pretty odd. We don't get involved with them, and never laugh at them etc. Quite pathetic how they call religion evil and full of hatred when they post things like that.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6841

Original post by adamrules247

They seem to be stalking us in the Atheism Soc :teehee:

Of all the posts they could laugh at, that's quite sad that they picked that one. What a mean bunch :frown:

Though what were you doing over there on the dark side? :biggrin:

Reply 6842

adamrules247

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

Of all the posts they could laugh at, that's quite sad that they picked that one. What a mean bunch :frown:

Though what were you doing over there on the dark side? :biggrin:

Ha, I was just flicking through the religion forum and noticed they'd updated that thread so went to poke my nose around a bit. Pretty mean spirited of them. I guess that by looking at us in such a fascinated way they've got what Fr. Barron calls the King Herrod complex (he disagreed with St. John the Baptist but loved to listen to him). Oh and glad you liked that video. Watch some of other stuff, it's amazing. He's also just released a television show here's the trailer.

Reply 6843

gltw

Original post by Facticity

It doesn't matter where it originated. Of the devil? How can the devil give us something? The devil doesn't give us sin, its just there. The devil isn't the source of everything wrong and of all sin, temptation and provocation perhaps, but its not like he goes around giving people practices. I don't know what kind of devil you believe in but I don't think its the one Christianity speaks of.

The devil can use people, you cannot deny that the devil has not created practices that are evil an you?

Original post by Facticity

Also many things come from pagan times which we have now. Christmas was originally a pagan festival celebrating the winter solstice. Would you say Christmas is of the devil and evil and pagan? I doubt it.

Christmas should not be celebrated by a Christian, certainly not in Church.

Original post by Facticity

Nope you are simply making conjecture and have little reason to conclude so. Why did it take so long after the Bible was compiled? The Bible wasn't word of mouth for that long, they are all books which were composed not long after Christ's death however took a long time to be compiled. So no, there were clear writings.

Not everyone had access to all the manuscripts of what we see as the New Testemant.

Original post by Facticity

So is getting pen on your hand but I wouldn't say you are a sinner and taking part in pagan worship or will go to hell because you doodle on your palm. Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

I was not claiming that, putting a pen to your hand is not perminant, it washes off after a few hours.

Original post by Facticity

Drinking even in its small quantities can be harmful and smoking even on a casual basis can be very harmful however none of these things are condemned by any church nor in the bible. So what authority you have to make such a claim, I don't know. It doesn't matter if it is to excess. It is harming the (as you argued) holy temple of the body. If so you have no reason to permit alcohol. So do you go around pointing to the people who have drinks, who smoke and who are over weight (whether biologically or not) and telling them they are sinners and will go to hell? I don't think so. And I don't think they will go to hell or anything of the sort. All you've done is quote a passage which could be manipulated to mean 10,000 things and then put your own words in. The only person not following scripture, is you.

Christ drank alcohol, so it is not wrong unless done to exess. If you repent for all your sins you do not go to hell. Glutteny is sinful, not necessarily being overweight.

Original post by Facticity

Thats the same definition of sin that I have - however I am more prone to reasoning things out, looking at history, looking at morality and studying the theology before I condemn billions of people because of very simple things.

A little sin is just the same as a big sin, so to speak, is it not?

Original post by Facticity

No. You miss your own point. Your argument was whatever comes from pagans is sinful. Well using symbols in religion such as a cross or a fish or whatever the various churches have, was a pagan originated practice. So was ritual in religion. So was prayer. They may have been taught by Christ but they preceded him by a long shot all the way back to the Pagans. By your argument, anything from the pagans, is from the devil is it not? You've dug your self into a massive hole to be honest - contradictory points. :erm:

Christ did not steal prayer from the Pagans. Paganism is evil, how can you deny that. Jesus did not teach tatoos did he? so cannot be justified if looking at the Bible. There is no consistent given to justify the use of tatoos.

Original post by Facticity

Tattoos are not cuttings and neither are they used for the dead! :lolwut:

The word tattoo was not around back then, just because a modern translation makes use of the word doesn't mean that is what it originally meant. If you studied theology in any great depth, you'd realise a lot of the original Greek words have little common meaning to the English we use today. If you really want to know the Gospel, then go read it in the proper language and research textual criticism.

Sorry but it says it was used for the dead, the AV confirms this. Tatoos peirce the skin, they bleed, how can you bleed without opening a wound? It is not just perminant ink, it must be

Original post by Facticity

Revelations has literally NOTHING to do with tattoos, and if you think the part about the mark of the beast in regards to tattoos, then I question how well you understand the Bible.

The mark of the beast will be permanently and prominently engraved or tatooed on the forehead or right hand of each person who gets the mark of the beast.

The mark of the beast will include one of the beast's 666 names. Each of the 666 names will be a name for God. The beast is Satan, coming to earth, looking like God and saying that he is God. Each of his names will be blasphemous, because he is not God.

The mark of the beast will look attractive and beautiful. It will please the senses and will excite the admiration of those who see it. Most people who wear it will be proud to have it.

There will be 666 different options or versions of the mark. The beast will have 666 slightly different names that all claim to be God. One of these names will seem appropriate and attractive to each person on earth. For example, Christians believe that Jesus Christ will come again, the Jews believe that the Messiah is coming. So when the beast arrives on earth he will claim to be Jesus Christ to the Christians and he will offer them a version of his mark that is Christian. He will claim to be Messiah to the Jews and he will offer them a mark that is Jewish. It could be a fish or a cross or any names of God.

Original post by Facticity

That could be taken in a number of ways. The fact that you choose to pick tattoos is your own interpretation. So far you have yet to present any explicit or strong passages, just vagueness about the body being a temple.

You seem to be conviced that I am singling out tatoos. Everything that you do to your body should be done to honour God

Original post by Facticity

Well, my aggravation was at your supposed judgement of others and the whole pagan/devil history mix morality historical malpractice fallacy. You seem to presume too much. I have not taken offence at your view, but when you prescribe a view as clear and supported and reasonable, then get ready for criticism. As I said, I am not pro-tattoo and I would probably agree it is better to be safe than sorry but if in your Christianity you think that getting a tattoo would determine you to go to hell/ be condemned then I don't want such a Christianity - it isn't the same Christianity of salvation, love and mercy that Christ preached.

All sins can be forgiven but only through repentance. You don't get into heaven if you continue to live the same life as you would before you were converted exept going to church. You must have a change of heart and mind, not wanting to potentialy harm your body.

As i've tried to say I follow the view of my church, that of possibly all the true Christians I have met. There is no consistent given to justify the use of tatoos ever. So why do it? I am not saying if you get a tatoo then you go to hell, It must have apeared that way, but as a born again christian you should want to please God, not even risking anything that could be sinful. Sin easily creeps into peoples lives. Salvation is the only way to get into heaven, which involes removing any potential for sin. I am not trying to be confrontational, my message must have got lost somewhere. My interpretation of the verses I have presented condem the use of tatoos.

I do not want further dispute to this, i feel it has went on too long already, I only put down my view, I was not wanting an open argument over a missinterperatation of that view.

God Bless You. I admire the fact that you do not take everyting everyone says but just read the verses carefuly with an open mind, looking at the 'big picture'. Keep reading :smile:

Reply 6844

Great video I think everone discerning marriage should see

We shouldn't celebrate Christmas? :lolwut:

Reply 6845

gltw

Original post by adamrules247

That is very true. Maby everyone should consider these points before entering marage and there would be far less divorce. :smile:

But then again if everyone was a Christian the world would be a far better place. A shame that we will never experiance it here. But only in heaven :smile:

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

We shouldn't celebrate Christmas? :lolwut:

We had this discusion before I think, I think we should agree to dissagree and leave it at that friend. :smile:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6846

Original post by gltw

We had this discusion before I think, I think we should agree to dissagree and leave it at that friend. :smile:

Fair enough :smile:

Reply 6847

sparklysparkles

Just throwing out there:

Proverbs 19:21

The human mind may devise many plans, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will be established.

Such a comforting verse :smile:

Also

JB Johnstone

...

responding to your posts quite a while back now, how are you doing? I'm also in my first time in Halls in a new country, though 3rd year at uni, and it's completely different from the CU-bubbly environment I had for my first two years! In the past few weeks I've found it really difficult to make non-merely-superficial friendships as most of the people on my course just want to go out and party and get drunk all the time, and while I'm by no means averse to some dancing or an occasional drink, every night and drinking to get drunk is just not my thing at all, as you might suspect! BUT recently I found the Navigators' group and the two nights I've been to have been AMAZING, such great fellowship in terms of studying God's word, and also in laughing together and getting to know each other afterwards. AND also randomnly bumped into another British girl at GBU (French version of CU) and we've become really quite firm friends. SO I would conclude that sometimes weeks of loneliness are inevitable and the end result is that we are to focus first on our relationship with God and depend on Him and then out of that will flow relationships with those around us :smile:

(Though I'd still also appreciate prayer as it is still quite hard, and I'll do the same for all others in similar situations!!)

Reply 6848

Original post by sparklysparkles

Just throwing out there:

Such a comforting verse :smile:

Also

responding to your posts quite a while back now, how are you doing? I'm also in my first time in Halls in a new country, though 3rd year at uni, and it's completely different from the CU-bubbly environment I had for my first two years! In the past few weeks I've found it really difficult to make non-merely-superficial friendships as most of the people on my course just want to go out and party and get drunk all the time, and while I'm by no means averse to some dancing or an occasional drink, every night and drinking to get drunk is just not my thing at all, as you might suspect! BUT recently I found the Navigators' group and the two nights I've been to have been AMAZING, such great fellowship in terms of studying God's word, and also in laughing together and getting to know each other afterwards. AND also randomnly bumped into another British girl at GBU (French version of CU) and we've become really quite firm friends. SO I would conclude that sometimes weeks of loneliness are inevitable and the end result is that we are to focus first on our relationship with God and depend on Him and then out of that will flow relationships with those around us :smile:

(Though I'd still also appreciate prayer as it is still quite hard, and I'll do the same for all others in similar situations!!)

Glad the last two nights have been good for you. Saying a prayer for you and all those settling into new countries and universities :smile:

Reply 6849

Facticity

Original post by gltw

The devil can use people, you cannot deny that the devil has not created practices that are evil an you?

Hmmm the devil influences people certainly - I can agree to that but the bible often states things aren't evil in themselves such as food and it makes it very clear that it is by our own actions that things become sinful.

Christmas should not be celebrated by a Christian, certainly not in Church.

Hmm. It depends what you mean by Christmas. If you mean celebrating when Christ was born, even though we don't know the exact date, then I think that's allowable and perhaps even recommendable. If you mean the media and marketting flurry it has become, then I agree that shouldn't be celebrated in the name of Jesus. Though the idea of gift giving is certainly a Christian thing, hijacking by consumer companies has sullied that message.

Not everyone had access to all the manuscripts of what we see as the New Testemant.

Nope, but there is still no reason to change it as the higher officials will definitely have had many texts.

I was not claiming that, putting a pen to your hand is not perminant, it washes off after a few hours.

Exactly my point. A tattoo, for some reason, being permanent makes it pagan worship? Why? Permanence of ink doesn't then make the ink evil or of the devil. IN FACT, it isn't even permanent, people can get them removed in modern day. So if its not permanent, and its the permanence you have a problem with, then whats so evil about it?

Christ drank alcohol, so it is not wrong unless done to exess. If you repent for all your sins you do not go to hell. Glutteny is sinful, not necessarily being overweight.

But an operation is a huge mutilation of your body. If not for several operations I have had in my life I would not be alive today. I thank God every day for it and I feel he helped me through such a difficult period and I know he helped me get better physically and mentally quickly. I felt inspired and it did certainly influence me to pursue medicine to help people in the same way, which as far as I can see can only be a good thing in Christianity. I certainly did not feel I was a sinner for having my body 'mutilated' - though that's a terrible word to use.

A little sin is just the same as a big sin, so to speak, is it not?

They are both sins, but I wouldn't say they are the same. A white lie, whilst being a sin, is not the same as murder.

Christ did not steal prayer from the Pagans. Paganism is evil, how can you deny that. Jesus did not teach tatoos did he? so cannot be justified if looking at the Bible. There is no consistent given to justify the use of tatoos.

He didn't steal prayer but it was a practice that originated in some parts of the world in paganism. I think Paganism is misguided - I rarely call someone or something evil, its a strong word. Jesus also didn't teach CPR but I will give it to someone if they need it - a trivial example but the idea that if Christ didn't teach it is not right is ridiculous. Christ can't teach you everything and what to do in every situation. Necrophilia can't be condoned or condemned by the Bible, yet I have no question in my mind its wrong. There isn't justification but many things aren't justified that we permit and many things aren't condemned that we condemn.

Sorry but it says it was used for the dead, the AV confirms this. Tatoos peirce the skin, they bleed, how can you bleed without opening a wound? It is not just perminant ink, it must be

Yes, at the time. My point was its not now. Actually not all tattoos cause you to bleed. Many things pierce the skin, but it doesn't mean they are evil.

Mark of the Beast

All those passages refer to being evil and possessed and the incarnation of the devil through temptation and possession. They have no relation to getting a tattoo. If you get a tattoo with 666, then of course it is blasphemous, however a tattoo is not the subject of Revelations, if you think it is, I urge you to look into the eschatology and theology of revelations.

You seem to be conviced that I am singling out tatoos. Everything that you do to your body should be done to honour God

I know you aren't but this conversation is heavily weighted on tattoos among other things.

All sins can be forgiven but only through repentance. You don't get into heaven if you continue to live the same life as you would before you were converted exept going to church. You must have a change of heart and mind, not wanting to potentialy harm your body.

Tattoos don't hurt the mind or body anymore that grazing your hand.

As i've tried to say I follow the view of my church, that of possibly all the true Christians I have met.

Christians can often be wrong :wink:

and your assurance in your own view point makes me curious however I still can't see where it comes from.

There is no consistent given to justify the use of tatoos ever.

As I said, many things aren't justified in the Bible but we know they are fine to use/practice. I'm not saying tattoos are one of these, rather its not very clear whether they are. Perhaps to you but by my own study and logic, I see no reason so far that separates a tattoo from things in modern day we are fine with.

I do not want further dispute to this, i feel it has went on too long already, I only put down my view, I was not wanting an open argument over a missinterperatation of that view.

God Bless You. I admire the fact that you do not take everyting everyone says but just read the verses carefuly with an open mind, looking at the 'big picture'. Keep reading :smile:

Fair enough. This has gone on long enough. I'm still undecided on the issue and I will look into it further sometime I guess. I admire your conviction and a puritanical living is commendable. :smile:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6850

lovers in japan

2

Original post by sparklysparkles

(Though I'd still also appreciate prayer as it is still quite hard, and I'll do the same for all others in similar situations!!)

Praying for you tonight :smile:

I think it's an amazing opportunity, studying abroad, but I found it so so difficult as well in many ways. I pray that you will always feel God's presence with you, and that you'll find and maintain true fellowship and friendship with others. :hugs:

Reply 6851

Tzarchasm

13

Original post by lovers in japan

Praying for you tonight :smile:

I think it's an amazing opportunity, studying abroad, but I found it so so difficult as well in many ways. I pray that you will always feel God's presence with you, and that you'll find and maintain true fellowship and friendship with others. :hugs:

Coldplay are awesome by the way.

Prayed for you Sparkly.

Reply 6852

mevidek

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

We shouldn't celebrate Christmas? :lolwut:

WHAT?????

Prayer said Sparkly Sparklezzzz!

Reply 6853

skotch

Original post by rainbowbex

I have four tickets, so if someone pulls out I'll let you know but atm they are all counted for. Lol, yeah that might be an idea, I don't think mine said anything about me!

I'm on placement at the BRI, but living in Ashley Down/bishopton :smile:

Ah awesome, that would be GREAT! Been listing to Rise Against all day!

By the way, turns out you're a CU leader for UH! Who would have known... How's that for stalking eh?! Haha

Reply 6854

skotch

By the way guys, I've just got back from my first night out back at uni and it's gone well and had a great time, although it was tough and has made me think about stuff.

Basically, I wear a christian wristband and one of my friends spotted it and we talked a little. This then went on to the topic of sex before marriage, something which the vast majority of students don't seem to give a crap about. Some of the guys there already knew my stance on it while I had the courage to tell others my stance for the first time which is pretty cool. Led to an interesting discussion. It's made me think though, how do people feel about sex before marriage? And how do we combat it in such a sex-obsessed society? Literally all we seem to talk about on nights out are girls, pulling, sex, and alcohol. I've tried telling people that they really don't need alcohol to have fun on a night out, but how do I convince them when they are so adament that they need alcohol to have fun? Do I have to lead by example? I'm not one to abstain from a tipple of alcohol and I'm (now) careful about how much I drink (because of both money and I know what it can do to me/others). What do I dooo??

I was good tonight and chose to walk home with my housemate and another mate rather than stay in the club with all my other mates which could have led to the temptation to do stuff (I won't divulge, but it's pretty obvious...)

I feel like my only option is to lead by example, which is what I'm doing, but I'm in suuuch a minority in my extended friendship group from my halls which is the group I hang out with most. There is literally just me. The people that I can chat to personally about stuff aren't here yet. I have a few friends that are christians, but they're not in that friendship group. It's just really hard and I feel like there's so much pressure to conform which I am just not going to do. So glad that this year gives me a chance to strengthen existing friendships, but I don't want to be distancing myself from or possibly losing other friends just because we have different opinions on sex /clubbing.

Any advice for any of those issues?

Reply 6855