TSR Med Students' Society Part III

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Anybody have any tips for trying to learn embryology? I'm trying to use Langman's and it's just really complicated trying to remember it. Is it really just a job where I need to draw and redraw diagrams?

Reply 6821

SabreT

Original post by Beska

Ditto, embryology is bloody hard. Craniofacial development.... :sigh:

Reply 6822

Philosoraptor

Original post by Beska

Learn embryology? :rofl:

Reply 6823

Tech

Original post by Beska

The most difficult thing with embryology I guess is that everything is changing, over time, across three dimensions. What worked well for me was to spend some time making sure I could see each stage in my head clearly, and then making a couple of my own diagrams to just convey the things which were important for me to be able to bring that picture back up.

The terminology is also a pretty big barrier, I just went old-school and made a glossary of all the confusing words and wrote them out a couple of times until they felt right.

Also I guess remember that it can actually be useful (believe it or not :tongue:

) in remembering some of the anatomy, eg innervation of the tongue only really made sense after learning the embryology there... plus it's really useful for understanding why the developmental defects happen as they do.

Reply 6824

GodspeedGehenna

If I hear more people talking medic **** about ****ing lecture content during a night out I'm going to kill myself.

Reply 6825

i'm no superman

Original post by Kinkerz

You starting to enjoy it more?

Yeah it's getting a lot better. I prefer developmental neurobiology than cellular and systems based neuro though. The workload is nuts. Handed in a 3k essay yesterday. I have a 2k essay to hand in next Tuesday and I've got an assessed debate tomorrow. I start my research project from January onwards when I have no more lectures or teaching so hopefully it will be more chilled out. :smile:

Reply 6826

Beska

Original post by Tech

Also I guess remember that it can actually be useful (believe it or not :tongue:

Cheers for the tips. :biggrin:

I hope so. Right now it just seems like ridiculous amounts of detail about something unbelievably specific that will probably not be useful in the future... but you saying that gives me some hope. :p:

Reply 6827

SMed

New pair of black Chuck Taylor's - life is looking up.

Reply 6828

Supermassive_muse_fan

Original post by Beska

Cheers for the tips. :biggrin:

Head and neck embryology and CVS is pretty straightforward and important. GI is a bit more of a pain to learn (with how you get the greater and lesser sac of the peritoneal cavity because theres so much twisting and turning and looping) but again important. I always forget embryology, can never seem to remember it :frown:

or epidemiology. Always need to re-learn before exams.

Look up some animations though, but this site is AMAZING: http://www.embryo.chronolab.com/heart.htm

I use this for all my embryology learning, its got extra things like histology slides, time lines of development. I used to print off the diagrams and stick them in my notes then label them.

Reply 6829

Kinkerz

Embryology... shudder.

Reply 6830

Renal

Original post by crazylemon

beyond the kidneys and heart I know basically zero of the embryology.

I know basically zero of the embryology

Reply 6831

Wangers

Original post by Philosoraptor

Learn embryology? :rofl:

Pfft, one of my units this year is mechanisms of development - looking at how we learn about human as well as animal development (alot of stuff is the same or very similar across species) We're doing essentially zebrafish, mouse, frog, fly and chick development - embryology. This is a 0.5 unit course, I'm doing 5 courses of this workload. + a research project. This year is alot of work.

Original post by GodspeedGehenna

If I hear more people talking medic **** about ****ing lecture content during a night out I'm going to kill myself.

Nah, kill them instead. :wink:

Reply 6832

Philosoraptor

Original post by Wangers

F I'm talking about as part of the medical course - if it's in your BSc then fair play obviously

Reply 6833

Wangers

Original post by i'm no superman

You get protected time for your project??!

Reply 6834

Wangers

Original post by crazylemon

Because I don't see why they are needed. What is needed is an explanation of how student finance works. When I did some teaching in a academy the lack f understanding was shocking wrt student finance. It is fine to have them done through that.

As for kinkerz you are totally right. I can spot the public school boys a mile off. Although some of them are arrogant *****.

But even when people do understand, it is a terrifying concept.

For someone whose family income is around £20K

Fees - £9K/year

Other expenses £5K/year - conservative.

These are all loans, not repayable until in work, but for someone who comes from a low income background, telling them to take on £14K/year debt - which is not far off their whole family income is just something that many of these kids do not grasp.

To top it all off, you tell them to do that for 5 years. That to them is an astronomical amount of money. The fact that you tell them they'll be ok on doctor's wages dosn't do much. The intoduction of these new tuition fees is a total disaster for access.

Reply 6835

Wangers

Original post by Talexe

The problems preventing people from lower-income backgrounds getting into medicine are hugely complex - not something in my opinion that you could isolate to basic factors in the medical admissions process. It's hard to know what we could do to help.

Genuinely, what do you think the issues are?

Reply 6836

Wangers

Original post by crazylemon

But what you need is to give the details of how it is paid back and make that clear.
Yes the total debt might be 100k but explain that once you graduate you will only be paying £x a month they seem to get it (or did when I explained it...) plus that it comes out as a tax and so you never ever have to worry about not being able to afford to pay it back that you don't
Maybe thinking that education on how it works is all that is needed (wrt this as a barrier) is naive but I have seen it work.

Yes, so no cash, nothing upfront, and you'll only pay it when you're in work, and earning over £21K, and you only pay it as long as you're in work and capped at 9% of take home wages - it breaks down to not a lot, but access would be far easier without this - and it's not just the kids - alot of families would rather not have their kids with this amount of debt and so discourage the students. Because many of these families have had difficult lives, they view the fact that you'll emerge as a Dr and have no problems paying off this money with deep skepticism.

This will only favour those with self confidence - ie middle class kids, that's why I say it is a disaster for access - it is the worst possible thing you could do to widen access to medicine, given the inherent bias in the system and the longer degree.

Reply 6837

Kinkerz

Original post by Wangers

I think that's a big factor, personally.

Reply 6838

Wangers

Original post by crazylemon

True, it is difficult though. How would you fund your proposed change? The money has to come from somewhere and a graduate tax is would be totally against (If they tried to implement it and I had to pay it I would try and leave)

Easy

AS of 2008, there are ~8000 medical places in the UK - Wikipedia.

We take 2000 of those places and reserve them for disadvantaged kids, we give a £20,000 tax free, non repayable bursary for the whole course - 6 years

£20,000 for 2000 students is £40Million

Over 6 years - £240M

When the Banker's tax was first put on, it netted £3.5Bn, the next round of fuel tax increases 2p? is projected to raise 1.5Bn. Even if the Banker's tax drops off the edge of a cliff, it can scrape together a couple of hundred million, or peanuts compared to the ridiculous amount spent for the NHS computer system. For such a measly amount (less than the budget overruns on some government projects) you can change the lives of 2000 families.

Sounds good yes? It only depends on the government wanting to do it. Which kids you give the money to is a different issue - and in itself a minefield. but it isn't as expensive as you might think. If we are going to change the cycle for good, we need to be bold and completly shatter the middle class stranglehold. Now I'm saying that as someone who had a fantastic (private, yes) education - but the thing is, these kids that don't get a chance, that is a criminal waste of potential, and the whole country looses out from their lost productivity - who knows what brilliant things could come from any one of these 2000 kids? Say if you had a £1Bn, you could save that money and spend it like that in 3 blocks of 6 years - you could lift generations of students out of the mire from just a round of fuel levies. You won't see the benefits necessarily for 20,30 or 40 years, but there will be change, and it will be profound.

2000 students - just think of that.