Racism on the Tram!!! Appalling!

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Original post by Medstudentlondon.

Just proves all the stereotypes about British people , you guys invaded Irish people , Africa people , Indian people and so many more ... Britain is basically the creator of most racism nowerdays and hates when karma bites back. The queen is a waste of space and the government is sending Britain down the drain invading more and more non-white countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. This is Karma! Deal with it. Dunno why its called ' great ' Britain ... Nothing great about it and this lady proved that!

Tired of hearing this levelled at our nationality. I don't agree with the woman in the video in the slightest, but those who stand up against her and say that we should all remember that Britain invaded this many countries and enslaved that many people so it's high-time we were 'invaded' by immigrants fail to see the irony in their argument.
I'm white and British. Have I enslaved any Africans recently? No. Have I invaded half the world? No. Am I a racist? No. So why is it that good, upstanding white people are attacked because of what our ancestors did which we had no influence over? Do you not see how racist you are being by claiming that I deserve punishment because men who looked like me a few centuries ago did bad things?
"White, British people are racists and deserve to be punished for our Empire!" - racism, no two ways about it.

Reply 1281

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by PendulumBoB

That's true, the far-right parties of Europe however are very different from the BNP/EDL (and their leaders actually have social skills and the ability to come across as being intelligent); really they're more National Liberalist than National Socialist. As for the religion thing, it's the high Muslim birthrates and the total lack of integration which really concerns me.

Exactly you hit the nail on the head there. I don't think birthrates is something we can do much about it but mainly it's a case of educating people about values etc. I.e. there are still a lot of muslims and those of other ethnicities who despite being 2nd or 3rd generation (maybe 4th in some cases) still feel as they're not British/English. I think I spoke about this experience on another thread about how I've always cosndiered myself British-Asian and my fellow "Asians" used to take digs at me as if I were some traitor because I hung around with people of different backgrounds....coconut is the term they use.

Anyways there are still many people like that. I think the BBC did a poll a few years back where 49% of Asians (Ind/Pak/Bang/Asian sub-continent) considered themselves Asian and not British which is a bit sad. I mean ethnically ofcourse they're asian and obviously many aspects of their culture especially at home/religion but they too are still very much a part of Britain by being born, raised and educated here. There are some Asians I knew at school who hated Britain with a passion to which I always wondered then why on Earth are you still here if you hate it that much? The sort who will always support the team England are playing against which I find really disheartening and unpatriotic.

You talk about the Empire putting this into people's mindsets. It's true there is ill feeling about that and with good reason but we can't re-write history and I think the vast majority of people Brits or otherwise accept the Empire wasn't a proud moment in our history. But rather than beat ourselves up about it for the next 300 odd years we have to move and make the present day situation better and in essence the future. If people are always going to go back to the days of the Empire being the root of all conflicts and racial tension then we'll never get anywhere. Even if every single racial and religious group migrated from every other country back to their country of origin believe it will still be a tense world if not even more so.

You mention about the far-right in Europe and give Denmark as an example. What you have to remember is despite the ethnic mix across Europe it's probably in essence a lot easier for different cultures to integrate in Britain (and by that virtue Canada and the US) because of the fact the English language is so widely spoken and the major influence of American/English culture world-wide. Danish isn't a widely spoken language worldwide and being a potential doctor it would be a major stumbling block for me to want to go and live and work in Denmark (especially work!) without speaking a word of Danish. But then I am mindful of the fact there are a lot of ethnic groups settling in the UK who don't speak English. But I maintain that I don't think issues with regards to integratrion are as bad in the UK as they are in parts of Europe and I don't see a trend towards far-right politics not now, not ever.

If it was going to happen there was plenty of opportunity for it to happen be it in the 70s and 80s when groups like the NF and even C-18 had a lot of hardened support. Even going as far back as 2001 with the race riots in the North of England in Oldham (not too far from me here in Manchester), Burnley, Bradford. At that time the BNP did get a lot of support. I distinctly remember at the 2001 General Election Nick Griffin finishing 3rd in the Oldham election behind the Tories and Labour and ahead of the Lib Dems. That was pretty significant and for some time the BNP made Oldham a happy-hunting ground. Now they've unofficially ceased operations here due to dwindling support.

The far-right brigade on TSR will shout and scream that the vast majority of people in the UK believe in the BNP's policies but if that were the case then they would have come into power a long time ago. Even with the Tories in power at the moment I wouldn't say it suggests for one moment that British consciousness is shifting to the "right" after all they didn't win a majority. Even then being right-wing doesn't equate to racism. Historically the Conservatives have had more support and fielded more candidates from ethnic minorities than Labour and the Lib Dems combined.

Obviously I say all this because ultimately like the next hard-working Brit, I don't want to see this coutnry slide into ruin and isolation from the rest of the world as a result of far-right politics taking a grip and I still believe it won't happen. We are far too progressive and forward thinking a society for that to happen and the handful of "oiks" you see here on TSR who got lost on the way to Stormfront do not represent the views of the vast majority of students, young people or British people be they white, black, brown, turquoise etc.

Can I get an Amen?

Reply 1282

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by tnsa1611

The Empire was in the past and for some it still opens up old wounds. But at the end of the day whatever acts were committed were done so by a government, not the entire British people. Just like not all Germans are swastika wearing, right-hand saluting fascists because of the Nazis. If anything Britain is probably one of the most tolerant (if not the most) tolerant of all diverse nations in the world. And coming from someone of Indian ancestry, I'm proud to call myself British. Wherever I go in the world and people ask me where I'm from and then they start talking about things they know or like about Britain/England.

The BNP/EDL and especially the tram lady are certainly not representative of the British people or even its government and you'd be a fool (not you specifically I'm just speaking generally) to think otherwise. It's the same with Iran. Whatever conflicts/issues the British government have with Iran is with the Iranian government, not the Iranian people. Most people worldwide (Iranians included) accept that the regime in Iran is corrupt and needs deposing.

Yes the Empire may have not been a proud moment in British history but you could argue it was as a result of colonisation that we have become the global community that we are today with the ease of trade and exchange of skills and resources etc which is especially important in this current economic climate.

Reply 1283

Organ

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

There are some Asians I knew at school who hated Britain with a passion to which I always wondered then why on Earth are you still here if you hate it that much? The sort who will always support the team England are playing against which I find really disheartening and unpatriotic.

Why did they hate the UK out of interest?

Reply 1284

lulubel

Original post by tnsa1611

really great comment. you are so correct. the racists like to blame present day white peopel for the sins of the past. which is racism because it is collective guilt. and collective guilt is racism. so you are 100% correct.

also, do not let these racist make you feel guilty. white guilt is racism. when non whites try and make you feel guilty they are committing hate crimes aginst you.

these people are bigots. their interpretation of history is pure hate fantasy.

they do not want you to know that white people never enslaved anybody, that they purchased their slaves from africans themsleves who sold their war captives for profit.

they do not want you to know that before european empires came to power the arab islamic empires ruled the world for over a thousand years. (a thousand years of bloody genocide) they ruled over europeans like the spanish for 800 years. they constantly tried to invade all of europe europe for centuries. they enslaved 3 million europeans and over 20 million africans by force. ( only 600 thousand african slaves were brought to north america for example.)

the facts are, whatever bad europe has done has been made up with and surpassed with good. never let these racists tell you otherwise, because they have no right to point fingers when their own people have been far more barbaric in history.

how dare these racists bite the hand that feeds them. they live here but they complain about the european people who welcome them. hypocrites.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1285

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by Organ

Why did they hate the UK out of interest?

To be honest I never really spoke to them long enough (nor wanted to) to find out but it's the reasons of them "being Asian" or wanting to hang around with "me Asian bruvvas" and that instantly made me less of an Asian because I didn't see anything wrong with hanging around with different kinds of people.

You have to remember for a lot of these people especially in Manchester and parts of Greater Manchester like Oldham, many Asian people will live in a community surrounded by other asians and in close proximity of their family, cousins etc. Their social life revolves around that entirely i.e. hangging around with other Asians, going to the cousin's house, going to the mosque etc. In essence they become isolated from the rest of the town/city/wider community.

But is that any different in pre-dominantly white communities e.g. like the traditional Irish population in Cheetham Hill of the Jewish population in Prestwich etc? Just because they don't hang around with "other people" doesn't make them racist but I guess it's how to interact with these people when confronted in that situation.

In a sense it's double standards really to hear people moan and groan about integration. Like in m first year one girl asked me " GG you're asian and you come out with us, how come the other asian students don't come out on these socials" to which I'd reply "well did you ever ask them/invite them to come out?" to which there's an arkward silence.

It works both ways. You can't expect or wait for someone to make the first move and often you have to do it yourself. It's the same with most things in life. Nobody eroded British culture it's just that we as a nation have traditionally never been a patriotice or proud nation. We're too rooted in the stiff upper lip mentality and this attitude of "I just look out for number one and nobody else". It's the same at every level and in every community and you can see it across all sections be it in university e.g. normal students and "rahs", sports (i.e. rugby a gentleman's game, football for chavs etc).

Most of Britain's traditions and cultures were in the past very much rooted in a classist and elitist society which excluded even the common man. Unlike in the States we've never as a country truly believed in all people of the UK native or otherwise all being united under one banner/flag. Even with the issues surrounding the Team GB football team. I mean you'd think the other FAs would jump at the chance to be a part of the major tournament yet they've been moaning and groaning about it and to the point where they're emotionally blackmailing their talented stars into not playing when they've expressed a deep seated desire to take part. Surely having Scottish, Welsh and N Irish players in the GB football squad will give these players big tournament experience which they can bring to the home nations setup and benefit future qualifying campaigns?

diverging off-topic slightly but you get my point.

Reply 1286

jaxxa

Original post by Medstudentlondon.

you white people can be racist all you like, give it a few decades and you will just be another group in England. the biggest robbers in the world are from europe they have raped the world and help keep it under developed and be a good idea if you look at ur true place in the world

You say in this thread that you're from Istanbul, Turkey. That means you yourself are European, you moron. :rolleyes:

Not that it matters, just pointing out what an ignorant tool you are. And racist.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1287

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by lulubel

really great comment. you are so correct. the racists like to blame present day white peopel for the sins of the past. which is racism because it is collective guilt. and collective guilt is racism. so you are 100% correct.

also, do not let these racist make you feel guilty. white guilt is racism. when non whites try and make you feel guilty they are committing hate crimes aginst you.

these people are bigots. their interpretation of history is pure hate fantasy.

they do not want you to know that white people never enslavd anybody. they purchased their slaves from africans themsleves who sold their war captives for profit. they do not want you to know that before european empires came to power the arab islamic empires ruled the world for over a thousand years. a thousand years of bloody genocide. they ruled over europeans like the spanish for 800 years. they constantly tried to invade europe for centuries. they enslaved 3 million europeans and over 20 million africans by force. ( only 600 thousand african slves were brought to north america for example.)

the facts are, whatever bad europe has done it has been made up with ands surpassed with good. never let these racists tell you otherwise, because they have no right to point fingers when their own people have been far more barbaric in history.

how dare these racists bite the hand that feeds them. they live here but they complain the about the european people who welcome them. hypocrites.

Bite the hand that feeds them? Oh please my dear snap back to reality and get your brain out of the 19th Century.

Also it's funny how you label others as racists given the nature of your posts. I believe the words pot and kettle come to mind. Idiot.

Reply 1288

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by jaxxa

You say in this thread that you're from Istanbul, Turkey. That means you yourself are European, you moron. :rolleyes:

Not that it matters, just pointing out what an ignorant tool you are. And racist.

If said user is a med student at a prestigious London medical school as his username seems to suggest then I question the level of professionalism and code of conduct in labelling an entire community as racist without any justifiable grounds to do so and bearing in mind that a large proportion of patients he will be seeing on placements will be of that particular ethnic group.

Not really the sort of behaviour you would expect of a potential doctor even if it is behind the safety of a computer screen on a PUBLIC forum.

Reply 1289

lulubel

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

the third world immigrants who do nothing but denigrate white people and their history are free to leave if britain is such an awful place. but for some reason they choose to stay in such an evil society and amoungst such evil people..............

the hand that feeds them is just too tasty it seems............

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1290

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by lulubel

if the third world immigrants hate the british people and british history so much then they are free to leave. only they do not.

the hand that feeds them is just to tasty it seems............

As much as I raise an eyebrow or two at those who say they hate/despise Britain but continue to live here the last time I checked, there wasn't a law preventing them from expressing their dissatisfaction and neither does that come with a penalty of deportation so what you're saying in fact makes you sound like a typical hot-headed, narrow-minded bigot.

Ofcourse if you're not happy you're free to leave. Wouldn't like to imagine my hard earned money that I use to pay taxes goes to support the likes of you to come on here and constantly rant rubbish.

People who are here legally and obeey the law and pay their way etc have a right to be here whether or not they are of immigrant stock. If people are unhappy with certain aspects of British culture/soociety etc they are free to express themselves in such a way in line with our democratic way of life. If they choose to express that by committing acts of violence or harassing or abusing members of the public etc then clearly that is unacceptable and a punishable crime.

But I'm sorry saying that you don't like Britain or British history (as upsetting it is to hear) isn't justifiable grounds for someone to be asked to leave the country.

Reply 1291

lulubel

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

are you white? if so, do you take some kind of of masochistic pleasure from having your ethnic group denigrated and the history of your ancestors trashed by bigoted freaks who hate white people?

surely, you must be aware that these racists are looking forward to the day when they become the majority group in britain? when their 'people' are in charge. i see the gloating all the time on this forum.

these racists spout their bigoted narrative of history that blames white people collectively for every evil that has ever taken place in human history.

these racists live in britain. they bite the hand while it is feeding them. hypocrites.............

Reply 1292

frankieboy

Original post by lulubel

I'm guessing most "third world" immigrants don't as a matter of fact hate the uk.

And why the ones that do hate us actually stay here - well we don't know. They could hate this country, but face death in their country, and this country is the only place they can get asylum, just for one example. And if they don't actually hate this country if they are in that position of not much choice, hen I can understand how they can grow to hate this country, if they encounter racism such as you sometimes see.

Granted - some may be having an easy time on the dole, I don't know - there's always bad apples. But remember that, say with the example of asylum again, they've escaped death but ended up here where they haven't got a clue what's going on, can't get a job - no experience, no English, disorientated. And we provide for them with a lodging and minimum handout benefits, then they're stuck really. No way of progressing themselves from there. That's why I think a lot of people think they just ride along on the dole and are "lazy". That's the outward appearance, but the fact of the matter is they're stuck. The choice then is to stay here on the dole or go back and face whatever atrocity awaits them in their Country.

If anyone wants to be "proud to be British" you ought to take pride in the fact that our Country has enough morals to take asylum seekers in where places like Australia and other Western Countries are not so generous. That makes us the big guns. It's that which makes the UK a superior country and should make people proud to be British.
The "catch" is that at the same time, we also provide a fair amount of racism to the people we offer asylum too, and this results with them being stuck here amongst all the racism with little other choice of places to go. Very uncomfortable situation for all involved.

A lot of them actually don't want to be here but don't really have a choice. I'm sure if you see reform to some extent in their countries, then I'd bet they can't wait to get back to what they know and a chance to progress a little bit in life in familiar surroundings. It's then that you'll see them starting to go back I reckon.

I know we're not only talking about asylum seekers here but thought I'd take them as an example. And bearing all of this in mind, the hysterical crap that the tabloids spout about these people is surely vile.

I also think that part of the whole of this problem is maybe due to ethnic minorities being all crammed like rats in a cage into certain places because these places are cheap.
Places that white people have also simultaneously moved out of because of either racism *** or generally moving up in the world and switching up areas. That's only a loose theory though and I couldn't currently back that up to feel free to educate me on that one. I've been wondering about it though.

*** Edit - By "racism" I mean that they don't want to live with the ethnic minorities.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1293

frankieboy

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

last time I checked, there wasn't a law preventing them from expressing their dissatisfaction

Yeah I mean, if people reckon the lady on the tram should have free speech, then it should apply to everyone.

You could argue that a small minority of ethnic people moan about this country, but we support them and provide for them. Then by the same token I'd like to see the amount of ethnic people who have behind the scenes enabled this woman to lead the life she has and there she is moaning about them. It seems like double standards doesn't it?

Reply 1294

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by lulubel

Firstly my ethnicity has nothing to do with the topic nor is it any of your business but for the recoord no I am not white.

Secondly the people you refer to are a small minority of bigots and let's be brutally honest if you re-read what you just typed to me, you'll find more biggottry and racism expressed in your post so it's kind of ironic that you should be calling anyone racist.

My parents are immigrants and have worked in this country (both as doctors) for more than 40 years without sponging on the state or claiming a benefit etc. I was born, raised and educated here and whilst I am proud of my asian heritage I am damn proud to call myself British. I have represented Britain in the spot I play with great proud and for more than half my life have been involved in voluntary projects helping people of ALL backgrounds in the community including shock horror "white people". I know all about British history and to an extent World History and I know as well as you do that yes some mistakes were made in history but look at the good that has come out of it; Britain has become a forward thinking and progressive society and more than done its bit to rectify past mistakes. Also as I pointed out the irony is that if it wasn't for the Empire and the bloodshed and plundering, we wouldn't be the global community that we are today being able to trade resources and skills etc. Could you imagine if every single racial/ethnic/religious group and nation were completely isolated from each other? The world would go into meltdown.

Anyway my point is that yes I as well as you am not happy to hear people hold resentments towards British people because of a dark chapter of our history. But it's a chapter we should never forget and it's because Britain as a nation and society was readily able to accept it's mistakes that makes it a great nation and let's be fair there are far worse places to live in the world e.g. North Korea where me an you would probably be carted off to a labour camp for expressing such open views.

Now my point is that despite the fact my family history is rooted in Asia and I am the only member of my family to be born here, I am proud to call myself British-Indian, English and if you want me to be more specific Mancunian. The career I want to go into will hopefully involve me using my knowledge and skills to promote and improve healthcare for all my patients regardless of their backgrounds. When I'm on placements at the hospital/surgery I don't look at a patient when they walk through the door and judge them by their religion, skin colour or language ability. I look at them as someone who needs my help and is relying on my skills and experience to help them. What sort of a doctor/professional/human-being would I be if I let trivial factors such as ethnicity get in the way of that?

so please don't lecture me about having your race denigrated or whatever because it hasn't been. And if even if a few people make comments as such that's exactly what they are, a few people.

And for every one ethnic minority individual who may have a deep seated hatred for British culture/history and society, there are far more who love this country and are proud to call themselves British, myself included and someone like you isn't ever going to change that. The sooner you realise that the better.

Reply 1295

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by frankieboy

Yes she was entitled to an opinion but what she didn't have the right to do was to abuse people and make them feel uncomfortable as she did by looking around and asking "you're not english etc...." and then shouting disgusting offensive abuse at them. That isn't free speech, that's abuse and harrassment which is a crime.

Reply 1296

frankieboy

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

I'm actually with you on that one, as I've stated earlier in the thread, but I was attempting to prove that if she was given "free speech" like some on this thread reckon she should have had, then ethnic minorities should be given free speech to moan about this country. But the people who think the woman should have free speech are often the same people who are stating that the ethnic minorities shouldn't have the right to free speech re: their opinions on this Country. Hence the double standard.

In my opinion, ideally neither party would be saying stuff like that, due to them not feeling the need. But that seems a very long way off at the moment. If people like her are saying stuff so bad it gets them nicked...

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1297

Gridiron-Gangster

Original post by frankieboy

LOL I didn't read your post properly. It's almost 3am and got so many essays to write but instead I'm wasting my energy trying to preach to a rabid dog like lulubel who will never listen to reason or common sense and then has the audacity to twist my words. Moron.

But yes as I said in line wiith free speech everyone has the right to express themselves whether it be about the statee of immigration, aspects of our culture or society or the British way of life etc. If we didn't then how on Earth would we progress as a society if we were to delude ourselves annd pretend everything was happy go lucky? Even as a proud Brit there are plenty of things I don't like about Britain ranging from aspects of of our healthcare system (mainly related to doctorr training) to other things I can't think of right now. It doesn't mean I hate Britain or my fellow countrymen and women. Frankly I have the right to express those sentiments given that I have lived here all my life, worked hard and proud to represent my community and my family and myself in every aspect of my life.

what it doesn't give me the right to do however is to abuse others who make an opinion I may not agree to.

My beef (well I'm a veggie actually) with the tram lady wasn't her disgusting views on immigration but the fact that she not only saw it fit to harrass and abuse innocent commuters whose only crime was that they or a different skin-tone, but she did so in front of her young toddler which I just think is totally disgusting. To behave in such a way knowing that she could very well have been attacked physically had it not been for the fact she was surrounded by a carriage full of far more morally upstanding individuals than herself, she could have not only put herself but also her young child in grave danger.

Not only did she let herself down as a Brit and a human being but more importantly than all of that, she let herself down as a mother. She shouldn't even call herself a mother. She is a disgrace. For the sake of the little boy and the distress it would cause him I really hope he is not taken away by social services but she doesn't deserve to be a mother. What sort of a mother puts her child in that sort of situation?

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1298

Jackthevillain

You can only push the White race so far before we retaliate O ITS COMING.

Reply 1299

frankieboy

Original post by Gridiron-Gangster

the statee of immigration

j/k aside, She claims it's "her" country, well perhaps this country doesn't want people like her to claim ownership of it. Perhaps she doesn't have the right to it unless she conducts herself in an appropriate manner.
And equally as important about the kid. We should expect the same from our citizens who were born here as we expect from the citizens that we take in.

For the record, I don't particularly like living in Britain. But so long as I do so, I conduct myself appropriately, or at least try to.

Jackthevillain