Barts and The London Applicants 2012

Oooh, I met a bunch of 2nd year QMUL biomeds yesterday afternoon! There were quite a few of you there around about the same time - I probably even spoke to you. Haha.

Re the first bolded bit - well that's not the case though is it? Its not the people with the best overall applications getting an interview, its the people who have got x number of A*s at GCSE or scored well on their UKCAT or BMAT or have done relatively well on whatever arbitrary scale that is being used to select people for an interview in the first place. If it was well and truly holistic in that the entire application was looked at, and everyone's was looked at before the first set of interviews were even given out, then that you could argue is 'fair'. That doesn't happen anywhere though.

Re the second bolded bit - yes, it is. Admission staff have done the maths over many years and sorta know how many offers to give out to end up with a normal sized year in September. Sometimes they get it wrong, but their aim is to end up with roughly the same number of students in each year or else there's some sort of penalty. Using the mentality that "if you get an interview, there is a place for you" will result in a year like mine. That's what BL did - BL interviewed a lot of people back in 2008 (for 2009 entry), which was the year the grade requirements went up to AAAb/AAAC, in the hope that not many people will make the higher offer, but we did; in fact 50 more people than expected did. That then meant people were being offered incentives to take gap years, which didn't happen, so 2010 entry had a much smaller intake than usual to compensate for my bulk year (who would then hopefully intercalate and fall back into the smaller 2010 intake year).

Exactly It doesn't happen anywhere, the entire process is "unfair", but thats life! Live with it

And on your point about arbitrary scales, you (not you specifically ) should know what scale it is they are looking for...ie if you don't have how ever many A* Birminghams needs then don't apply! Same for UKCAT cutoffs at XYZ or UCAS Tariff at Barts...

Haha yeah, you probably did! All us Biomeds seemed to get interviewed in the same day.

Dude, what exactly is your point then? If its not fair anywhere like you just said, why are you complaining about BL's apparently "unfair" system - after all, they are all unfair as you say? Seriously, I don't actually get your problem - the interview process at BL is actually quite fair, or at least fairer than other places. If anything, other med schools should be adopting this interview process.

He seems to be rather making a habit of complaining about Barts and praising the other med schools on this thread..which is a Barts and The London thread...

Dude, what exactly is your point then? If its not fair anywhere like you just said, why are you complaining about BL's apparently "unfair" system - after all, they are all unfair as you say? What I and the others on here are trying to say is that whilst BL like any other university is using its own arbitrary scale to select candidates for interviews (which is besides the point tbh), it is at least trying to compensate for that by waiting to interview everyone they have chosen to before comparing all of them and selecting candidates to make an offer to. Seriously, I don't actually get your problem - the interview process at BL is actually quite fair, or at least fairer than other places. If anything, other med schools should be adopting this interview process.

x

But this wasn't really more so about the tariff system, more about if Barts way of leaving it to the end of the interview cycle to give out offers is a fairer system than, say ICL KCL UCL, who give offers and rejections along the way. We've had the tariff debate hundreds of times on this thread so this isn't really about that so much

I understand- but I am explaining that at UCL it doesn't matter as they consider everything in deciding whether you get an interview- so once your at the interview stage you are academically good enough- you are just battling against yourself as a place is reserved for you so it doesn't really matter when you get the offer/rejection.

Great post, but not the point really. See ViceVersa's post above.

We are talking about the interview process not the selection for interview process - so the step between interview and offer and not the step between application and interview. Selection for interviews has to be discriminative (or else its not really a useful selection tool). Whether the UCAS tariff system is the most ideal or not is besides the point really. What we are referring to is the process once people have been selected for interviews, using whatever system - BL and Newcastle's way of doing things, albeit annoying for students, is actually quite fair, or atleat fairer than other places. And like I said, since interviews are scored and then used to offer places, it is MUCH better to wait to interview everyone before deciding what is good enough to warrant an offer.

Glad you love BL. I love it too. Evidently!

As for the UCAS tarrif system (Prince_Of_Arabia) although it may not be fairer than other systems it is nice to see a university use a completely different system which gives applicants (maybe like me) a chance to apply even though my UKCAT and other scores are not good enough for the majority of Universities!

I will try and explain to you why it is unfair. Bare in mind, I also love Barts, but I am not going to try and defend an unfair admissions system (even though the medical school is great)

Firsly, the 'great' UCAS tariff system. Well, firstly, the ucas tariff itself is stupidly selective and unfair. By proxy, to base an admissions system, on an unfair points system clearly makes the system arbitrary.

For example, person X may have excelled in sport to a national/regional standard and achieved his gold duke of edinburgh or excelled in a hobby like debating (winning an competition Oxford Union for example). How many points does person X get for all this??? A total of 0 points.

On the other hand, person Y may have completed some simple sports leadership award that takes 2 months and gained more points than person X. Why should the system actively give an advantage to those who do music compared to sport or one qualification ahead of another? It takes longer to achieve a national standard in sport than it does to gain your grade 6 in music.

In addittion, it centres the grade predictions in selecting for interviews. As you may know some schools do not predict A*'s or some may be especially generous in predicting them. This disparity only makes it unfair for some students.

I myself managed to get an interview so I am not speaking from experience. However, you cannot deny that some aspects of this system is in need of reform.

In my opinion, a system that looks at EVERYTHING to decide who is interviewed is far better. For instance at UCL, they look at your GCSE's, AS grades, Personal Statement, Reference etc so that you cannot be discarded on one weakness in your application. Everyone who is then interviewed has a reserved place- they just have to prove to the interviewers that they deserve it. Barts on the other hand bases interviews pretty much on a tariff system that in itself ignores a great variety of activities.

I love Barts and it is a great university- a privelege for anyone to go to- but come on dude- the tariff system is grossly unfair.

I understand- but I am explaining that at UCL it doesn't matter as they consider everything in deciding whether you get an interview- so once your at the interview stage you are academically good enough- you are just battling against yourself as a place is reserved for you so it doesn't really matter when you get the offer/rejection.

After reading this debate, I've come to some sound conclusions;

prince_of_arabia; why haven't you withdrawn from barts if your planning to and have an offer from UCL

medicine-man, viceversa; agree with you and well argued.

Kingscoltzan; i think your a bit of a N*b tbh, i think its fairly obvious your planning to go to KCL yet you somehow want to satisfy your own ego and want to hear what barts say.