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How can people think homosexuality is a choice?

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Reply 400
Original post by The Socktor
Well, he wouldn't be able to vote here. Since there's hardly anybody living on the South Pole, he'd have a lot of power.


It's not 'poor gay' anything. I don't hate gays. Anyways, it'd be poor usa for legalizing gay marriage nationwide. Also, penguins can't get married, I don't care about penguins so I wouldn't care about stopping them from marrying.

I don't like your sig btw.
Reply 401
Original post by DYKWIA
It's not 'poor gay' anything. I don't hate gays. Anyways, it'd be poor usa for legalizing gay marriage nationwide. Also, penguins can't get married, I don't care about penguins so I wouldn't care about stopping them from marrying.

I don't like your sig btw.


Grow up. :rolleyes:
Reply 402
Original post by DYKWIA
It's not 'poor gay' anything. I don't hate gays. Anyways, it'd be poor usa for legalizing gay marriage nationwide. Also, penguins can't get married, I don't care about penguins so I wouldn't care about stopping them from marrying.

I don't like your sig btw.


Damn, guess penguins and us gays have something more in common than just being awesome, who'd have ever thought it. And yes, poor USA for taking a huge step towards equality - how damaging that would be for a country!

Original post by The Socktor
Well, he wouldn't be able to vote here. Since there's hardly anybody living on the South Pole, he'd have a lot of power.


Hmm, I didn't think of that - god, he could turn it into one giant empire for homophobes :/ Right, maybe we should just invite him to a nice out of the way cottage, then surround it with gay bars and the like so he never leaves the house in case he comes into contact... Trap him in a house and save the penguins, win/win situation if you ask me
Original post by DYKWIA
I don't like your sig btw.


I guess you would prefer to join in the dancing, but well, it's the most I can do over the internet.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 404
Original post by Jester94
Hmm, I didn't think of that - god, he could turn it into one giant empire for homophobes :/ Right, maybe we should just invite him to a nice out of the way cottage, then surround it with gay bars and the like so he never leaves the house in case he comes into contact... Trap him in a house and save the penguins, win/win situation if you ask me


Good plan, gay kiss-in outside DYKWIA's house



:colone:

Seriously, I've been thinking further on all this over the last few days, while I've been away from the thread, and I've come to the following conclusion: being gay wasn't a choice, but I would still choose it, and why the hell shouldn't I? I might not have back when I was a troubled teenager, but I'm not that any more and I know how happy I can be being gay, falling in love with another man, and so on. I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Just look at that picture, that's something that I want in my life, for a guy to look at me like that and kiss me like that. Fortunately, I have it :biggrin: People should be free to entertain the possibility that that's what will make them happy, and if they decide it will they should be just as free to seek it out.
Original post by mmmpie
x

Cute pic :h:
Reply 406
Original post by Id and Ego seek
Cute pic :h:


The credit goes to google I'm afraid. I was going to put one up of me and the boyfriend, but he's not out to everyone and I didn't want to cause him upset.

My actual point, which on re-reading I failed to make, was that it doesn't matter if it's a choice. At least, it doesn't matter to me, because I would still choose it and there is no justification for saying that I shouldn't.
Reply 407
Original post by mmmpie
Good plan, gay kiss-in outside DYKWIA's house

Seriously, I've been thinking further on all this over the last few days, while I've been away from the thread, and I've come to the following conclusion: being gay wasn't a choice, but I would still choose it, and why the hell shouldn't I? I might not have back when I was a troubled teenager, but I'm not that any more and I know how happy I can be being gay, falling in love with another man, and so on. I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Just look at that picture, that's something that I want in my life, for a guy to look at me like that and kiss me like that. Fortunately, I have it :biggrin: People should be free to entertain the possibility that that's what will make them happy, and if they decide it will they should be just as free to seek it out.


Haha, I took a break from this thread from a few days and came back to find it had taken a massive turn to a debate on Catholic theology :/ I'm so happy I finished with the semi self-hating phase from a year or two ago, it's like a massive weight off my shoulders to be happy in the fact that I like girls :smile:

It shouldn't matter that it's with the same sex, I mean love is a good thing regardless of gender surely; I want someone whose going to make me happy, who I can fall in love with and that just isn't going to be guy and while that confused/annoyed etc me for a while, I think of all the beautiful girls there are out there and I'm glad :smile:

Argh, you lucky pup, very jealous of you to find someone, but happy for you at the same time haha - guess I shouldn't get too down, I am only 18 (and seeing as I'm not fully out yet, it's hardly surprising!!)

Yeah, we wouldn't even need to build gay bars, just build a massive circle of bilboards with photos on like that surrounding his house - excellent and much more cost effective too :smile:
Reply 408
Original post by Gales
Grow up. :rolleyes:


I'm a person too. :angry:

Original post by Jester94
Damn, guess penguins and us gays have something more in common than just being awesome, who'd have ever thought it. And yes, poor USA for taking a huge step towards equality - how damaging that would be for a country!


No, I care about gay people just as much as everyone else. Not allowing them to marry is partially for their own good. Also, I can't tell male penguins from female penguins so how would I tell if they were gay?

Hmm, I didn't think of that - god, he could turn it into one giant empire for homophobes :/ Right, maybe we should just invite him to a nice out of the way cottage, then surround it with gay bars and the like so he never leaves the house in case he comes into contact... Trap him in a house and save the penguins, win/win situation if you ask me


Wouldn't that be abuse? I thought britain was supposed to be super tolerant.

I see most people on this forum are from cities, so I think it would be best to avoid them to find like minded people. I doubt the whole of britain likes gays.

Original post by mmmpie
...


Can't you put that stuff in spoiler quotes?
Original post by a_stitch_in_time


1.) i believe people are inherently a/pan/bi/? sexual but to varying degrees. that means the percentage breakdown differs for all of us. I believe that sex doesnt have to = gender .. meaning we have an outer shell and an inner shell.. not everybody's is in synch/according to heteronormative prescription but i never let any of that stop me from just .. 'being'

2.) = how we are (consciously/latently) psycho-socio-culturally prescribed to behave, taking 1.) into consideration

3.) = realising there's a field called anthropology, psychology, sociology.. if individuals can in general, seek to understand themselves and live mindfully and responsibly that would be ideal and impact society in a nice way

4.) realising that 3.) is a way of life and that it's normal and expected to harbour confusion, resentment, and dislike towards alternative ways of life that seem to threaten us on a psychological, financial, institutional, ethnological etc level. Bonus points to those who are willing to grapple with this constructively to make their way to being the embodiment of 5.)

5.) 'understanding', 'pluralism', 'progressiveness', 'intercultural sensitivity' &/ an amalgamation of cultures would be an the ideal macro level outcome, and not at all foolish to predict especially @ globalisation.. (tho Hollywood and lack of exposure might get in the way..). Should we wear Hogwarts-Housey badges with space for multiple colors, % breakdown and symbolic codes (as opposed to having our physical features, passport, gender, bling bling, and religion be the automatic markers..)? Will that make for an adequate identifier and invite mutual respect and mutually beneficial relations? or will some nitwit like Voldemort or heck, even a Joe Common, come and **** things up, especially since it's not like it hasn't happened before.. Will this encourage people who are simply alike to group together? I mean.. that's what happened at my boarding school< and supposedly makes anthropological sense...

6.) rinse, repeat 1-5. It'll likely take some time.. I mean.. we'd need a massive overturn of the legal system, amongst other things (like a multidisciplinary, intercultural education curriculum.. I don't mean 'international school' style that sort of has one exist in a kind of socioeconomic & culturally homogenous bubble but caters oh so lovelily to the 'job market' #oh hai commodification of education!)

7.) realise that things aren't too shabby in 2012, unlike in various other time periods.. maybe we'll have cause to be idealistic after all..

8.) profit! and maybe I should start a religion.

9.) What are the foreseeable pros and cons of 1.) to 6.)? Hmmm...

^ Was just about to change that to 'a/bi/pan/?'-sexual before I realise that somebody replied! LOL & yup yup yup @ "no predetermined preference, but that preference comes to be expressed through choice/actualisation". Is there a name for this, like a proper psych/phil term?!




Original post by ThePhilosoraptor

Thinking differnece would involve a focus upon which parts of the relationships were uncommon; things like tony having a foot fetish, rob being a vegetarian and steve being obsessed with Pink Floyd. And from these uncommon strands it would allow one to investigate not why Jeff has dated 3 men and is therefore a homosexual, but why Jeff has dated these three people specifically (and why they broke up) and would allow one to think in terms of Jeff's future possibilities as being unlimited by previous typification.


Hey yo..

I've done some thinking about all this since I last contributed to the thread..

I more or less understand that point of Deleuze's that you mentioned:

Original post by ThePhilosoraptor

"when you label you disable". By trying to define sexuality and identity in the way these disciplines do they attempt to 'fix' the concept, which is often not helpful in the slightest. Concepts are consistenly differenciating themselves as the networks of tensions that support them shift balance and what might work as a definition of identity at one point in time would seem completely farcical in another.



And so, I maintain the solution I proposed:

Original post by a_stitch_in_time

Should we wear Hogwarts-Housey badges with space for multiple colors, % breakdown and symbolic codes (as opposed to having our physical features, passport, gender, bling bling, and religion be the automatic markers..)? Will that make for an adequate identifier and invite mutual respect and mutually beneficial relations?



but with addendums..


Basically, have 2 badge-colour wheel thingy.. one on each side (left, right).. One showing the breakdown of one's beliefs in general.. and the other, blank unless in the presence of another during which it'll flash areas of (greatest) similarities in strong shades and areas of conflict, faded .. but yeah, it's gonna take some mojo of a tech!! We can also like have an inbuilt mechanism thing that sends jolts to us (but 1 step before that would be the flashing of areas of conflict) when we're very near unconstructive conflict. And should we persist, we'd then get transported to like, the other person's past... be a viewer like Harry was with Tom Riddle. Cool huh? :biggrin:.. not sure if it ought to be limited to some voyeuristic experience or extended to include experiencing the actual inner emotions of the person.. hmm. that could be like, level 3.

Oh, and the colour wheel spectrum thing is by no means static..it'll always update itself and like, people can have the option to view the 'history of last saved changes' if there's been a significant number of them. Otherwise, just a simple hologram kinda thing.

Original post by ThePhilosoraptor

Concepts are consistenly differenciating themselves as the networks of tensions that support them shift balance and what might work as a definition of identity at one point in time would seem completely farcical in another.


O yeah and what u said about Deleuze got me thinking about the anthropology of semiotics and philosophy of language. I mean, the premise for language in the first place is to 'label' right? which is related to human nature then.. so.. hmm..

oo & take a look at this (on suicide of gay rutgers student tyler clementi): http://tinyurl.com/7sh4n76

relates to criminal law and social media which i think makes for interesting developments to look forward to in my field.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 410
Original post by Jester94
Haha, I took a break from this thread from a few days and came back to find it had taken a massive turn to a debate on Catholic theology :/ I'm so happy I finished with the semi self-hating phase from a year or two ago, it's like a massive weight off my shoulders to be happy in the fact that I like girls :smile:

It shouldn't matter that it's with the same sex, I mean love is a good thing regardless of gender surely; I want someone whose going to make me happy, who I can fall in love with and that just isn't going to be guy and while that confused/annoyed etc me for a while, I think of all the beautiful girls there are out there and I'm glad :smile:

Argh, you lucky pup, very jealous of you to find someone, but happy for you at the same time haha - guess I shouldn't get too down, I am only 18 (and seeing as I'm not fully out yet, it's hardly surprising!!)


The actual liking boys thing was never a problem itself, it was always the wider implications: how would my friends react? my family? would I get HIV? could I still have children somehow? would I get bullied? etc. etc.

If I'd have had some decent information to go on, half those concerns would have disappeared straight away because they come from fear and ignorance. It's a sad truth that what so many young LGBT people are fearful and ignorant of is themselves.

Original post by DYKWIA
Can't you put that stuff in spoiler quotes?


The picture? I could, but I see no need to: it's not pornographic, it's not even all that risqué, and it did illustrate my point.
Reply 411
Original post by mmmpie
The actual liking boys thing was never a problem itself, it was always the wider implications: how would my friends react? my family? would I get HIV? could I still have children somehow? would I get bullied? etc. etc.

.


That's still what's keeping me in the closet, worrying how my friends/family will react. Still, work in progress :smile:
Reply 412
Original post by DYKWIA
I'm a person too. :angry:



No, I care about gay people just as much as everyone else. Not allowing them to marry is partially for their own good. Also, I can't tell male penguins from female penguins so how would I tell if they were gay?



Wouldn't that be abuse? I thought britain was supposed to be super tolerant.

I see most people on this forum are from cities, so I think it would be best to avoid them to find like minded people. I doubt the whole of britain likes gays.


Can't you put that stuff in spoiler quotes?


And I doubt the whole of the US are as bigoted as you have proved yourself to be throughout this thread, but hey ho. And, please, do enlighten me how is not allowing me marriage for my own good?
Reply 413
Original post by Jester94
That's still what's keeping me in the closet, worrying how my friends/family will react. Still, work in progress :smile:


I came out at school when I was 14 and I was convinced that it was going to be hideous, but I couldn't keep it in any more. There were some pretty ****ty times after that, but compared to how I'd imagined it was going to be a lot of reactions were a very pleasant surprise.

One of my friends, who was basically turning into a slightly more offensive mini-eminem at the time, said to me (I paraphrase, because I can't remember exactly) "you're not expecting me to watch, you're not trying to sleep with me, so to me it's no different to your taste in clothes. It's not for me, but if you're happy..." He was one of the ones that I was absolutely convinced would have a problem with it.
Reply 414
In the US they have some of the best ever gay equality videos. FCKH8.COM is one very imaginative group
Love this one
[video="youtube;73NIcmNLL7M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73NIcmNLL7M[/video]

Their YouTube page is at; http://www.youtube.com/user/FCKH8?feature=watch
Original post by Jester94
And I doubt the whole of the US are as bigoted as you have proved yourself to be throughout this thread, but hey ho. And, please, do enlighten me how is not allowing me marriage for my own good?


The poster you are replying to is an almost definate troll, you won't get a logical answer.
Of course, there is no good reason for not allowing homosexual marriage, and anyone with half a brain cell knows this. What people do with their private lives is no one else's business, and doesn't affect them.
Original post by DYKWIA

I see most people on this forum are from cities, so I think it would be best to avoid them to find like minded people. I doubt the whole of britain likes gays.



Can't you put that stuff in spoiler quotes?



i thought you didn't dislike gays just gay marriage? it must be really hard to keep your "i'm not a homophobe, i like gays i just don't like seeing it because it disgusts me and makes me angry" "non homophobic" (cough) mask on all the time.
Reply 417
Original post by mmmpie
I came out at school when I was 14 and I was convinced that it was going to be hideous, but I couldn't keep it in any more. There were some pretty ****ty times after that, but compared to how I'd imagined it was going to be a lot of reactions were a very pleasant surprise.

One of my friends, who was basically turning into a slightly more offensive mini-eminem at the time, said to me (I paraphrase, because I can't remember exactly) "you're not expecting me to watch, you're not trying to sleep with me, so to me it's no different to your taste in clothes. It's not for me, but if you're happy..." He was one of the ones that I was absolutely convinced would have a problem with it.


I love reactions like that :smile: happy your friend reacted in such a cool way. Slowly but surely telling more of my friends, though I feel like it's only fair to tell my parents before I tell anyone else, but I keep chickening out. I don't think they'd exactly have a problem with it, but there's still that element of irrational doubt saying they could flip haha! Also, don't really want to be known as just 'the lesbian in the sixth form', which is stupid and pretty irrational, but I never said I was a rational human being!!
Reply 418
Original post by Emaemmaemily
The poster you are replying to is an almost definate troll, you won't get a logical answer.
Of course, there is no good reason for not allowing homosexual marriage, and anyone with half a brain cell knows this. What people do with their private lives is no one else's business, and doesn't affect them.


I know, I don't really know why I keep replying to them :/ must be the endless optimist in me, hoping I'll actually get somewhere!


Original post by Bellissima
i thought you didn't dislike gays just gay marriage? it must be really hard to keep your &quot;i'm not a homophobe, i like gays i just don't like seeing it because it disgusts me and makes me angry&quot; &quot;non homophobic&quot; (cough) mask on all the time.


Brilliant :clap2:
Reply 419
Original post by Jester94
And I doubt the whole of the US are as bigoted as you have proved yourself to be throughout this thread, but hey ho. And, please, do enlighten me how is not allowing me marriage for my own good?


Because it is better for society as a whole, it encourages people to be more understanding, it keeps marriage safe and also it can help to keep levels of HIV infections in gay people down. I wouldn't be so edgy if it wasn't for the fact the ban on gay marriage is in a precarious position at the moment and I feel society is in a much worse position now. I'd be happy if I knew gay marriage wasn't gonna be legalized and if gay adoption was banned. When you push for gay marriage it only upsets those who don't agree with it.

Original post by mmmpie
The picture? I could, but I see no need to: it's not pornographic, it's not even all that risqué, and it did illustrate my point.


Why do you feel the need to provoke me like that?

Original post by Bellissima
i thought you didn't dislike gays just gay marriage? it must be really hard to keep your &quot;i'm not a homophobe, i like gays i just don't like seeing it because it disgusts me and makes me angry&quot; &quot;non homophobic&quot; (cough) mask on all the time.


I don't dislike gays. I really don't. Also, that was supposed to be a PM, if I had wanted to say it in the open, I would have put it better.