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TSR Med Students' Society Part III

So, apparently, running into the room and yelling "ABRUPTIO PLACENTAE" with a pretend wand is innapropriate and childish.

I hate my flatmates sometimes.

Reply 9201

digitalis

17

Had a bit of a weird incident on firms today. There was a girl doing work experience for a week, finished up last Friday.
Much to my surprise she rumbles into the Department today! So I asked her what she was doing and 'apparently', she had been told it was OK by the volunteer coordinator as long as one of the doctors gave 'their consent'.

Now this set off question marks in my head, some school girl wandering around the department unsupervised tagging along onto random doctors in a very busy part of the hospital, no badge, no nothing. I am pretty sure that isn't on and that she wouldn't be covered by Trust insurance/malpractice etc if not on an official work experience project.

Thoughts?

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 9202

Philosoraptor

18

Original post by digitalis

Had a bit of a weird incident on firms today. There was a girl doing work experience for a week, finished up last Friday.
Much to my surprise she rumbles into the Department today! So I asked her what she was doing and 'apparently', she had been told it was OK by the volunteer coordinator as long as one of the doctors gave 'their consent'.

Now this set off question marks in my head, some school girl wandering around the department unsupervised tagging along onto random doctors in a very busy part of the hospital, no badge, no nothing. I am pretty sure that isn't on and that she wouldn't be covered by Trust insurance/malpractice etc if not on an official work experience project.

Dude I wouldn't kick up a fuss - if you don't know anybody sometimes it's hard to get work experience - as long as she's being supervised and not you know doing any active procedures I'd leave it

Reply 9203

digitalis

17

Original post by Philosoraptor

Dude I wouldn't kick up a fuss - if you don't know anybody sometimes it's hard to get work experience - as long as she's being supervised and not you know doing any active procedures I'd leave it

Well the difficulty of getting work experience is besides the point-this is a question of accountability, liability and patient safety. This is a schoolkid wandering about A&E majors and resus unannounced and unexpected and uncovered by any sort of insurance. There is a reason why you have to go through proper channels to get work experience-imagine if every single wannabe medic just pitched up through the ambulance doors into resus and started wandering about?! :rolleyes:

And as a separate point, she drew blood as well which I thought was extremely unprofessional of whoever was supervising her. Can you imagine the absolute disaster it would be if she got a needlestick? Not even immunised against Hep B let alone the other nasties floating about.

Reply 9204

GodspeedGehenna

3

Original post by digitalis

And as a separate point, she drew blood as well which I thought was extremely unprofessional of whoever was supervising her. Can you imagine the absolute disaster it would be if she got a needlestick? Not even immunised against Hep B let alone the other nasties floating about.

wuuuuut. That aint right.

Reply 9205

digitalis

17

Mate, I'll tell you I felt so damned uncomfortable when she told me that. For her, for the patient, for the doctor...I just hope the doctor only heard the 'student' bit and assumed she was a medical student (albeit a very young one!)

Reply 9206

GodspeedGehenna

3

Original post by digitalis

Mate, I'll tell you I felt so damned uncomfortable when she told me that. For her, for the patient, for the doctor...I just hope the doctor only heard the 'student' bit and assumed she was a medical student (albeit a very young one!)

I don't get why she would have wanted to do it, tbh. It would probs go down like a sack of **** if she tried to use it as bragging rights in an interview.

Reply 9207

Philosoraptor

18

Original post by digitalis

Mate, I'll tell you I felt so damned uncomfortable when she told me that. For her, for the patient, for the doctor...I just hope the doctor only heard the 'student' bit and assumed she was a medical student (albeit a very young one!)

Wait she's walking around without anybody at all (e.g. a medical student even) in RESUS? And taking blood?!

Er ok I wasn't consenting to that. Lol!

My friend on the course's brother wants to do medicine so followed him about for a day or two - always asking permission with patients, saying this is a wannabe medical student is it ok it he listens to our chat... Tbh, that's harmless - don't touch anything, don't get in the way, and ask permission.

What that girl is doing is WTF? I got offered to take blood as a 2nd year and said no - so an A level student is out of the question.

I hope you didn't misunderstand me... feel free to carry on the discussion if you have issues with my viewpoint though

Reply 9208

Vulpes

15

Original post by digitalis

Well the difficulty of getting work experience is besides the point-this is a question of accountability, liability and patient safety. This is a schoolkid wandering about A&E majors and resus unannounced and unexpected and uncovered by any sort of insurance. There is a reason why you have to go through proper channels to get work experience-imagine if every single wannabe medic just pitched up through the ambulance doors into resus and started wandering about?! :rolleyes:

And as a separate point, she drew blood as well which I thought was extremely unprofessional of whoever was supervising her. Can you imagine the absolute disaster it would be if she got a needlestick? Not even immunised against Hep B let alone the other nasties floating about.

How can the person in charge have allowed her to do that? I have been immunised against Hep B, but even I declined taking blood from a patient when my consultant offered to teach me.

Is it even legal to be able to draw blood from a patient without being properly signed off?

--------------

On a separate note, I was taking a patient history from a teenage girl today and I managed to get her to admit to smoking, much to the horror of her mother, who was also in the room at the time. :tongue:

Reply 9209

i'm no superman

15

Original post by SMed

^^^
I have this to look forward to for the next 10 weeks. :frown:

Hope the exams are going well.

I'm on 1800 words. Tonight is going to be awful. I feel like giving up but I'm going to try and get to 2k and hope my supervisor doesn't rape me tomorrow. I'm about 60% done with this introduction. :frown:

Reply 9210

RollerBall

20

Original post by digitalis

Well the difficulty of getting work experience is besides the point-this is a question of accountability, liability and patient safety. This is a schoolkid wandering about A&E majors and resus unannounced and unexpected and uncovered by any sort of insurance. There is a reason why you have to go through proper channels to get work experience-imagine if every single wannabe medic just pitched up through the ambulance doors into resus and started wandering about?! :rolleyes:

And as a separate point, she drew blood as well which I thought was extremely unprofessional of whoever was supervising her. Can you imagine the absolute disaster it would be if she got a needlestick? Not even immunised against Hep B let alone the other nasties floating about.

Lol, what? What if she'd hit the nerve while taking blood? I'm sure whoever was supervising her would have a bit of a difficult time trying to pass that off when the patient pitchs up with median nerve neuropathy due to a school student ****ing up.

If I was you I'd have a quiet word with your reg/cons and see that they pass it on through the proper channels that this isn't responsible. Tbh, what the **** is a work experience student doing in resus/A&E anyway!? Surely she'd be better off in the quieter wards, chatting to fairly well patients or in stuff like the angioplasty labs with the technicians observing from there? Maybe a bit of surgery, or put her in the clinicals skills lab and jab plastic arms to her hearts content.

Regardless, her work experience is up. IF she wants to crack on then she needs to get an official extensions not just permission to pester random consultants to allow her to follow them around.

I'd definitly have a quiet word though, no need to kick up a proper fuss as once it's passed on you've done your bit.

Reply 9211

Philosoraptor

18

Original post by crazylemon

I took blood as a second year. We had been taught at least twice by then.

Yeah that's not a problem dude - we don't get taught till first year clinicals (4th out of 6)

Reply 9212

xconfetti

Original post by fairy spangles

Hehe. Thats quite funny. ps - your university is big on communication skills which is why you probably noticed it.

Although makes things easier - i walked in this morning can i have some antibiotics, salbutamol and prednisolone please - yup, one prescription and straight back out again. Dont think i even sat down properly.

Was in hospital few weeks ago and the dr kept telling me he was putting salty water through the cannula. My cover was blown a few minutes later.

Haha, that moment when they realise you're a medic! I was going to say something at one point but didn't want him to feel awkward that he'd been using these very simple terms with me haha. He even kept using medical terms then correcting himself, so after that point I decided I'd save him the trouble and just pretend!

I hope you get better soon btw! :hugs:

Reply 9213

m197

11

Original post by digitalis

Had a bit of a weird incident on firms today. There was a girl doing work experience for a week, finished up last Friday.
Much to my surprise she rumbles into the Department today! So I asked her what she was doing and 'apparently', she had been told it was OK by the volunteer coordinator as long as one of the doctors gave 'their consent'.

Now this set off question marks in my head, some school girl wandering around the department unsupervised tagging along onto random doctors in a very busy part of the hospital, no badge, no nothing. I am pretty sure that isn't on and that she wouldn't be covered by Trust insurance/malpractice etc if not on an official work experience project.

Thoughts?

That sounds so dodgey. Work experience is an EXPERIENCE- you go there for a week and it's done. volunteering to bring tea and read is a different thing. and taking bloods is just wrong!

Reply 9214

m197

11

stupid question: when you examin someone who'd had cataracts surgery in the past, would their pupils be reactive?

Reply 9215

_Andrew_

11

Dissection of the perineum, and male reproductive tract today. lovely.

Reply 9216

Medicine Man

16

Original post by crazylemon

That just seems ridiculous!

I've never taken bloods before. :sad:

Some people here were taught it in their 1st/2nd year MedSoc placements, but most learn on their first year of clinicals, which in my case will be year 4 of 6.

Reply 9217

digitalis

17

Original post by RollerBall

If I was you I'd have a quiet word with your reg/cons and see that they pass it on through the proper channels that this isn't responsible. Tbh, what the **** is a work experience student doing in resus/A&E anyway!? Surely she'd be better off in the quieter wards, chatting to fairly well patients or in stuff like the angioplasty labs with the technicians observing from there? Maybe a bit of surgery, or put her in the clinicals skills lab and jab plastic arms to her hearts content.

Regardless, her work experience is up. IF she wants to crack on then she needs to get an official extensions not just permission to pester random consultants to allow her to follow them around.

Meh, this place seems to be putting students in A&E-I think it's alright if they are closely supervised but I know what you mean-I'd prefer somewhere where everyone isn't rushed off their feet and keep letting you get left behind. I think this is some decent advice, I kind of said 'yeahhh don't think you should be here' sort of thing to here yesterday and hope she got the hint, if she pitches up again (at 4PM, mind you..) I'll have a word with the nurse in charge...it's their patch after all.

Original post by Philosoraptor

My friend on the course's brother wants to do medicine so followed him about for a day or two - always asking permission with patients, saying this is a wannabe medical student is it ok it he listens to our chat... Tbh, that's harmless - don't touch anything, don't get in the way, and ask permission.

I reckon your mate would have got into deep deep **** if he got caught. The point I want to make is that NHS Trusts are not public institutions like taking your brother to the beach, they are businesses and employers. Consenting patients is fine, but you pitch up to this place of work and you play by their rules. They have agreements with medical schools that stipulate exactly who can attend on placements, names and dates are the minor points, the major points are occupational health, who's paying the malpractice cover and liability insurance. Trusts get money for this. Why do you think they bang home in every single induction that everything you do invasive must be directly supervised by someone qualified-it is so that if they get sued.

Hospitals are not zoo's, they are relatively dangerous places filled with extremely sick people. If you agree to have a work experience student shadow you, you are agreeing to supervise them. There is no chance in hell that I am taking responsibility as an unqualified *student* for another student.

There are so many disaster scenarios that can come along with bringing a sibling/mate who isn't a medic around for an unofficial gawk I want to bang this one home in case anyone else is reading this and is having the same idea!

1.) Imagine if your mate got stopped by his reg or the ward sister and they were like 'wtf is this?'...err it's my brother. Enough said.

2.) What if a patient starts questioning who they are in xyz scenario and starts getting angry and demanding to know why they weren't properly told who they were after they gave their life hx of haemorrhoids etc; and how you should have been more clear as they are a little deaf and they want to speak to the management now? Can't even say they are on official business, actually they are just a member of the lay public who has listened to all of it.

3.) On the same vein as above, your excited brother/mate goes off and blabs an entire confidential history (believing it is not important part of the history) in the lift/corridor/street/pub and someone hears it and complains.

4.) Brother/mate goes off and gets a work related injury/stabs himself/falls and is now **** scared and blubbering that he is going to get HIV.

All of those could happen on official work experience, yes. The difference being that you are there officially, you are covered, you have access to their occ health and it isn't shady and below the books.