Surely we'll never pay back our Tuition Fees. Have I made an error here?

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At my school less than half the teachers have an added 'Title Role.'

Less than half the teachers who have been teaching for 25 years? Remember that the original point made was that £30k was a reasonable amount to still be earning after 25 years of employment. No-one is claiming that £30k isn't more than satisfactory after a couple of years, while you're finding your feet in your chosen profession.

Reply 41

TurboCretin

Original post by cmas123

Yeah, but if I went somewhere in England I'd still have all the experience, I'd just drop the cost by a fair bit. Or would I? That's what i'm wondering

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your question. Well I suppose then it's a matter of degree, if you'll pardon the pun. It would depend on a lot of factors, not least the gap in general employer views of your second choice university as opposed to Edinburgh. Which other universities do you have offers from?

Reply 42

cmas123

Original post by Forum User

No, I'm not saying that the majority of teachers are heads of department. I am saying that the majority of teachers of 25-year tenure have some additional responsibilities, one example of which is 'head of department'.

Yeah so your wage might increase at the end of your 25 year tenure, it won't be anywhere near 30k at the start will it? Which brings the average wage for the 25 years down to 30k, maybe below. Nice one

Reply 43

Tommyjw

Original post by Forum User

And you have proof of this ofcourse.

One that goes against the actual facts of the average salary? :smile:

Reply 44

Aylish

What happens if you die before you have time to pay it all back?

Reply 45

TheFoxBlip

Original post by Aylish

What happens if you die before you have time to pay it all back?

It gets written off.

Reply 46

Arekkusu

It's fine, stop worrying about it. In my world, all economics students would be asked at interview if they were scared of the new fees and if they said yes they would be instantly kicked out.

Reply 47

Tokyoround

Original post by Aylish

What happens if you die before you have time to pay it all back?

Nothing. Poof it's gone.

Reply 48

rjmorey1

Er my mum is a teacher and she is on more than £30k a year....

Reply 49

Tokyoround

Original post by Arekkusu

It's fine, stop worrying about it. In my world, all economics students would be asked at interview if they were scared of the new fees and if they said yes they would be instantly kicked out.

So many students have fallen for the scaremongering, it's ridiculous. The student loan system is broken, and probably always will be.

Reply 50

Forum User

Original post by cmas123

I am sure the average wage will be higher than £30k. You do not get promoted to a position of more responsibility on your 45th birthday, you progress over a period of time. Additionally the pay scale even for a teacher with no other duties increases, you are not stuck at £21,000 or whatever it was for very long at all. A secondary school teacher progressing normally and not on any kind of disciplinary reaches the top of the 'basic duties' pay scale 5 years after starting (and this is more than £30k).

Thanks

Money will be worth less in the future, so salaries will rise, meaning we probably will end up paying it off. But it won't be as considerable of a payment in twenty years time as it sounds now.

Reply 53

Forum User

Original post by Tommyjw

And you have proof of this ofcourse.

One that goes against the actual facts of the average salary? :smile:

What facts of the average salary?

You mean like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7372058.stm

which states that the average salary of a 'classroom teacher', i.e. excluding heads and deputy heads, was £32,200 as long ago as 2008?

Or this one:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2067258/Best-paid-jobs-2011-Tables-official-figures-UK-salaries.html

which states that the average salary of a secondary school teacher was £35,166 in 2011?

You are getting carried away looking at the starting salary. The reality is that a teacher moves up the pay scale one notch at the start of each new academic year (assuming they have been teaching for a full year), even if they take on no additional duties, are not an advanced skills teacher, don't mark any exam scripts, and basically do the minimum possible to keep their job. That means they are already on £31,552 (outside London) after 6 years. They then move from M6 up the post-threshhold pay scale, through U1, U2, U3 at a rate of about one notch every 2-3 further years. So after 12-15 years they are on £36,756, again if they have no further duties at all whatsoever.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 54

cmas123

Original post by TurboCretin

Just Leeds, but I could quite easily reapply, I have a potential gap year in the pipeline. I think Edinburgh would be great an at the start of the year it was my second choice behind Oxford, I'm just trying to work out whether it's worth it with the extra fees - I'm starting to think, looking at all the facts, that it probably is.

Reply 55

Minotauro

lol yeah, they know, they're just pushing debt to the government that'll be around in 15, they predict about only 40% of students will fully pay back the loans...

My economics teacher was rambling on about this

Reply 56

MisanthropicLemon

I did these exact calculations a long time ago and found that you need to earn over 50,000 per year to pay it back. To people saying inflation needs to be factored in, it doesn't. Our wages increase with inflation, so does the debt. In fact, the debt grows faster than inflation (either CPI + 2% or 3%, can't quite remember). The government will know this, though, and that's been a major criticism of the plans - why on earth are we encouraging people to take out loans that most people will never repay? This can't be good training for mortgages etc. And the idea of making a profit on our educations is detestable. CPI (conveniently the higher measure of inflation in most cases) plus an extra payment constitutes an unjustified surcharge - a profit. Yes, we are taking out a loan, upon which interest is normally paid. But isn't the whole reason for the loan that it benefits society in general? They've already tripled the fees, so why the extra charge?

Reply 57

twelve

But, what does it matter if it isn't paid back?

You're not in debt for the rest of your life because it gets wiped off... Maybe I have completely misunderstood it, but it seems like they've basically said 'hey, just give us a small percentage each year, just a little bit towards it, and if its not all back in 25 years, then don't worryyyy, we'll just drop it all' Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Reply 58

Jimbo1234

Original post by cmas123

According to various sources, the tuition fee loan is wiped out after 25 years - anything you haven't yet paid back is written off.

You are taxed 9% per year on everything you earn over £21,000

If you earn £30,000 per year, you will be taxed 9% of £9,000, which is £810.

Theoretically, if you walked straight into a £30,000 a year job straight after graduation (obviously in reality, your starting earnings will be lower than this) then you will pay back £810 a year for 25 years, which according to my maths is £20250 in total. Seen as tuition fees are £27000, hardly anybody will pay the full amount back?

Have I made a massive error here, or is this totally correct?

You are completely correct.
You will never pay back the loan, and seeing that it is fixed to inflation, even if your salary increases, you still won't pay it back.
This is why I think that the govt. will sell off the debt and whom ever buys it will change the terms.

Original post by Forum User

You made the mistake of assuming that people are still earning £30k a year 25 years later when they're in your 40's despite being a graduate. If this is the case for anyone then I would suggest that they have completely and utterly wasted their time going to university.

It is fixed to inflation so you still won't pay it back.

Original post by twelve

Look at it this way.
They changed the system to reduce debt.
The news system currently means that new students will pay back far less than previous students under the old debt system.

Now do you think this won't change? :holmes: