The Martial Arts Society

Not at all. You said it was "just a sport" and I gave examples of why it isn't "just a sport" - that it has martial application unlike my examples of volleyball and tennis which are just sports. .

And I'm sure that if you picked a fight with a sumo wrestler you'd be really sorry about it afterwards. Something having a sportive aspect doesn't necessarily diminish its effectiveness as a martial art. .

He is a very prominent, skilled and widely admired Jiu-jitsu practioner, and yes he is a Gracie.

"Literally rape" - I'm saying you'd be helpless and they could do whatever the hell they wanted with you because they're amazing grapplers.
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Funny you say that when your "martial art" of choice involves hours of ill-disguised patty cake with other men. .

Not fat at all. I'm not ashamed to say that I got caught and didn't tap quick enough, I wouldn't have even mentioned it if it hurt my pride at all. He shoots . . . he misses..

Despite it being the most widely practiced martial art in his native Japan? You make some spurious claim and I refute it with a quote from the founder himself and this is your response? Weak, very weak.

I just wrote a big post replying to indo-chinese food and then my internet screwed up and I lost it. Ain't writing that out again, I'll let Einheri prove you wrong.

Clearly your use of the internet is adept as your martial arts knowledge.
Hopefully you can still access youtube, otherwise you would have no frame of reference

It's funny, I didn't even reply to your post and you're still looking for ways to be douche. You go on about being a real martial artist and yet you have absolutely zero respect for people at all. That's one of the few things I actually admire about a lot of traditional martial arts... they tend to be ineffective but they at least improve a person's character. Obviously not in your case...

i have respect for lot of people, you cant train different martial arts and not have respect for different points of view. I jsut dont like one-eyed views that are frankly wrong and uninformative to people coming on tsr for advice.
Your backward view that traditional martial arts 'dont work' for self defence becuase they dont feature in simplistic ufc or sports environments - is wrong. sorry if it upsets you to hear that.
I couldnt possibly say one martial art is 'better for self defence' than the other - they all have specific effectiveness in real time scenarios, and their real effectiveness will depend on the practitioner - otherwise they would have ceased to exist hundreds of years ago. but because of tv and competiton events, sports combat grabs the attention of the ignorant student better.

One-eyed views? You consistently talk crap about judo and other 'sports' martial arts and now you're trying to pretend that you respect other martial arts. Please, you're rude, ignorant and not worth anyone's time.

i have much respect for watching judoplayers as a sporting spectacle, just like i watch football, boxing, athletics.
I dont subcribe to the dimwitted view that "duuh judo is da best cos its best for throwing ppl around like on da youtube and better dan da old martial arts i watch in da movies

You clearly don't considering you constantly go on about how people are 'rolling around in their pajamas'.

I don't even believe that you should 'respect' every other martial art. You don't understand that you can disagree with a person and not personally attack them as you insist on doing. I wouldn't care if you didn't respect the martial arts that we practise, as long as you didn't put on the false guise that you did and didn't resort to ad hominem attacks when you're in no position to do so.

Also, yeah, I watch videos on youtube, watching fighting is one of the best ways to learn. I watch, take note in my head and try it out in training, often with positive effects. Oh and I train everyday

For you it works = you probably can learn judo online from youtube.
You cannot do the same for martial arts, its far more complex, intricate and time consuming and various techniques are guarded deliberately from the dimwit bedroom-warriors

Indo, I've trained in both combat sports and traditional martial arts - neither has the monopoly on complexity. You do yourself no favours by bemoaning the false dichotomy between the two while perpetuating it in all your posts.

I know; I've stopped replying to his posts unless I'm really bored. Kung Fool Logic - like Woman Logic only even more illogical, haha.

I remember that. Funny because I've never been to a Judo club that does more than 10% ne-waza.

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We are talking about judo- which is the epitomy of combat sports - ie take a rounded and effective self-defence style (ju jitsu) and dumb it down for exclusive use in a dojo, teaching in schools to kids and eventually sports competiton. Thats the history of judo ina nutshell. mma has effectively followed the same formula, but mainly due to the money involved in sports tv boradcasting. The very fact that within judo (and sports mma) is outlawed various techniques that in a proper confrontation would be quick, effective and useful proves that "dichotomy"

We are talking about judo- which is the epitomy of combat sports - ie take a rounded and effective self-defence style (ju jitsu) and dumb it down for exclusive use in a dojo, teaching in schools to kids and eventually sports competiton. Thats the history of judo ina nutshell. mma has effectively followed the same formula, but mainly due to the money involved in sports tv boradcasting. The very fact that within judo (and sports mma) is outlawed various techniques that in a proper confrontation would be quick, effective and useful proves that "dichotomy"

You can't train these techniques without hurting your training partners or resorting to worthless kata forms. Take Kani-Basami as an example of this - it's very easy to break uke's knee with it because it applies inward pressure to the side of the knee joint if you jump on too hard. It was banned because people were breaking their training partners' knees with it all over the place - you cannot train it safely. And of course live repetition during hard sparring is what gets you good at a technique; forms don't do much good - they're just an outdated medium for preserving techniques. Judo takes techniques that can be safely trained on a mat and repeats them live and in hard sparring over and over and over again so that you're brilliant at it if you did that with my example of Kani-Basami you'd probably have destroyed someone's leg for every 100 repetitions of it. Getting thrown on to a hard surface with most Judo throws will seriously hurt you - something like Osoto Gari will almost certainly crack your skull open on concrete.

To quote your hero Bruce Lee: "I fear not the man who has practiced a 10000 kicks once, but the man who has practiced a kick 10000 times".

I can settle all your bitching in one short post -

There is grappling style in Chinese Kung Fu, its called Shuai jiao and it pre dates judo, sambo, greek wrestling etc by hundreds of years. Itself it came from one of the more ancient Indian wrestling styles whoose name escapes me now, i think from south india, where throws and also joint locks and submissions were allowed - as well as taking some influence from tibetan and mongolian wrestling.

I know this because my previous sifu competed in national championships in china few years back - in competiton it is extremly similar to judo but without the full gis, so not so much sleeves and collar takedowns, but does allow some limited distraction striking , open palm only i think.



Observe some class grappling - ignore the 60 seconds upfront of bjj guys used as comparison, the two chinese kung fu guys later take it to the level, - note 2.06m at reversal of the single leg attempt.





[video="youtube;QuVhGKEIcxE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuVhGKEIcxE&feature=rela ted[/video]



And for the record, im full-on kung fu trained and would wipe the floor with you all if was in the mood

Edit - lol Truth hurts eh?

I love Judo, but it's not the epitome of combat sports, as you would realise if you'd ever trained in BJJ or wrestling which are equally technical.

And yes, all these banned techniques might be effective in an assault (there are no guarantees) - but if you don't have a competence in fighting gained from lots of training with resistance at all ranges, then it's of no use to you. I can't imagine the Anderson Silvas or Mirko Filipovics of this world are, relatively speaking, going to struggle punching someone on the nose or chucking in a knee kick or headbutt. Randy Couture would not struggle to use an eye gouge if the moment presented itself. But take some 10 stone guy who doesn't have the athleticism or the basic skill set to survive even club sparring in these contexts, and then expect him to be able to use some banned technique as a fightstopper in an assault... wishful thinking! Again, there are no guarantees and he might get lucky, but my money's on the guy who's learned to throw a massive right cross.

To reiterate what I said in my first response to you: the dichotomy is not between the combat athletes and the traditionalists, but between the guys who train with resistance and those who don't. I can walk into any boxing, judo, wrestling etc club and find this resistance. The same can't be said of every karate, jujitsu, gongfu etc class.