Panorama highlights racism in football

There is no need to adjust it in my favour, that is what he said.

Not really, it is well known that white people must be very careful when travelling in some of the poorer parts of SA. But simply by using common sense, one's risk can be severely reduced (sticking to well lit areas, not going out too late, not getting absolutely hammered etc.)

The video has shown that fans going to this tournament could be in danger simply by stepping into the stadium to support their team.

Not really. These matches highlighted were local affairs in the national league with fans of both teams in close proximity and not segregated.

When I was in Reading, many years ago, I was trapped in the station watching rioting Millwall fans kicking off because Reading had put several past them on the pitch. It was in the papers that they had kicked off at the stadium too and they had been given a police escort to the station.

That's like a tourist visiting the UK, witnessing this and when he gets home, telling his countrymen 'don't go to a football tournament in the UK because the same will happen to you.'

A few Readings fans getting rowdy ≠ organised nazi salutes and chants of Sieg heil

Right, so now tell me how (what I agree are extremely distateful) nazi salutes and chanting of Sieg heil is going to be more dangerous for fans going into a stadium simply to support their team, as opposed to 'rowdy' fans kicking off and wanting to beat the crap out of the opposition simply because they are the opposition?

I can tell which you think already, simply by attempting to downplay the actions of the fans at the Reading vs Millwall match as merely 'rowdy'. BTW, It was Millwall fans getting rowdy, not Reading, but since you so easily have created the other misconception, I can see how you made the error.

What about fans wanting to beat the crap out of their own supporters simply because they are foreigners?

And the bit I have bolded is exactly what I said earlier with regards to Polish and Ukranian 'ultras' training to beat the crap out of english fans, who are simply going to support their team.

It is well known that white people must be very careful when travelling in some of the poorer parts of SA. But simply by using common sense, one's risk can be severely reduced (sticking to well lit areas, not going out too late, not getting absolutely hammered etc.)

Ah, that little 'foreigners' bit again? I thought you said that (in regards to my South Africa comparison) the fact that locals are targeting foreigners who come as football fans wasn't relevant, you simply have to take care in a foreign country with high crime levels?

So, according to your thinking - it's OK to go to the SA World Cup as long as you apply a bit of 'common sense' and thus reduce the risk of being targeted for crime because the natives see you as a foreigner and target you because of this, but in the case of Poland/Ukraine, it's impossible to reduce the risk, or it is thus so disporportionate so you shouldn't go?

Nice logic.

In SA the risk is when you are out at night. I never heard of any beatings inside stadiums in SA. In Poland and Ukraine the risk appears to also be present during the day, when in or around the stadium. Even walking around town during the middle of the day in an England shirt could be cause for trouble. So yes the risk is much greater in Poland/Ukraine than in SA. And unless you don't want to go to the football matches (which is stupid, as you are there to go and watch the games) then you can't do much to reduce your risk.

I haven't heard of any beatings in international match competitions in stadiums in Poland/Ukraine either.

If you want to attempt to draw parallels and apply the Panorama video to national games in major international competitions such as the Euros, you can't simply draw the line at investigating whether there were any stadium beatings in the South Africa World Cup.

You would need to look at stadium violence and rivalries in local games in South Africa between two-bit nobody teams, which is what the Ukraine video showed.

By the way, I guarantee you you can be mugged/beaten/raped and murdered in South Africa during the daytime too, simply by being a foreigner walking around in the wrong area.

The risk of being a victim of crime in SA is so much higher than if you were to add the risks of being a victim of crime in Poland and Ukraine together. You'd be an idiot to believe otherwise.

The Ukraine games were between Premiership sides. The game where the Indian students were beaten was between two of Ukraine's biggest clubs. Ukranian domestic football is much bigger than SA domestic football, with Ukranian clubs competing in the CL (I know SA clubs can't play in the tournament, but even if they could, they just aren't good enough).

We are talking about football related incidents. Of course for a general tourist, SA is a much more dangerous place. In fact Ukraine and Poland are probably very nice and pretty safe countries for people to visit. But in terms of English football fans, it is not as safe.

Ukraine is a relatively two-bit nobody country when it comes to football teams, just as the top teams in the SA leagues are. People in the UK care about as much about top flight football in SA just as much as they care about top flight football in China, Paraguay or Mexico.

The only reason people are more aware of competions including teams such as Legia Warsaw and Dynamo Kyiv is because UK teams often encounter them in European competitions.

So why are we having this discussion? Why are you excluding non-football related crime from people attending football matches in SA? Is it impossible to conceive that they would be targeted on a completely non-football related matter?

Because this thread is about racism in football and around football matches, by football fans.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jk4vr/Panorama_Euro_2012_Stadiums_of_Hate/

If you have the time, then watch this video. It is truly shocking and sickening to see what goes on in some football stadiums across Eastern Europe.

Just in this video alone they documented Nazi salutes at games, horrific anti-semitic chants and the unprovoked beating of some Indian students by fans of the same team.

I really cannot understand why UEFA have given Poland and Ukraine the Euro 2012 tournament. Why give it to a place where not everyone can enjoy the football. The worst part of it is that the Ukranian police fail to admit there is a problem. They claim that there have been no racist incidents inside stadiums. However in the 3 or 4 games Panorama went to, they filmed many incidents.

Thoughts on the video, Poland and Ukraine being given the tournament, or racism in football in general?

Of course it is, if you live in a world where only white people can be racist.

Judging by some of your other posts on TSR you clearly believe that to be the case.

Okay, I'll have to explain your stupidity......
In South African football stadiums you Never see black hooligans chanting racial abuse at every white person they see and even attack white people in the crowd. Therefore when the word cup happened in that country, no one gave a warning about going there. However in these countries there is evidence of white hooligans attacking minorities.

And this discussion is about racism in the football stadium, not outside it. If white people were attacked in a football stadium because of their race, it would be okay for a white player to warn other whites not to go tgere so stop moaning like the paranoid deluded b*tch that you are.

I hope I broke it down to a point where your stupid brain could pick up the information. You'll find plenty of whites living normally in south Africa and there may be racist incIdents against them OUTSIDE the football stadium, but the point is that we're not talking about things outside of football. Now go to a dark corner and cry about how whites are oppressed.

Why when white people are raped or mugged by black people it is not deemed racist behaviour?

This is all a plot.

Uefa wanted to hold the football in poland to highlight the trouble that it is in and to make it have a bad name.

This is a plot that they do not want you to know!!!! Fact