Boys, if a girl told you she wanted to be dominated...

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With re to the comments of Ct2k7 and ColonelCuddles, to to the board more generally.

I'm going to express an opinion that might seem strong, but I think it bears saying and a little self-reflection on your part.

The "domination" that many on here seem to reference so approvingly is, in my opinion, a cipher for rape fantasies and one that is even then fundamentally naive. It seems entirely ignorant of its darkness and violence, and the inherently degrading nature of real sexual domination and rape.

Sexual domination is not a bodice babe reluctantly surrendering to the lusty charms of a masculine alpha and losing herself in sexual delight; it's your ex-boyfriend turning up at your house drunk, pushing you to the floor so violently he breaks your nose, ripping off your panties and ****ing you against your will, then leaving as soon as he's cum and calling you a "unfaithful bitch" on the way out for good measure.

It's one of your mates coming onto you towards the end of a two day coke binge, and then becoming so frustrated at your failure to reciprocate that he goes into the next room where his wife is sleeping and just starts having sex with her.

I don't think that many of you really understand what it is; you don't understand the frustration and trauma and violence. I hate to pull the age card, but you people are, what 19 and 20 year olds? I think when you've seen its ugliness you can't help but be repulsed by someone purporting to fantasise about some facsimile of sexual domination (i.e. the nullification or overcoming of consent, rape).

I've always had pretty liberal sexual mores, but at that age I can't recall wanting anything other than fun, hot, mutually enjoyable sex.

Edit:

Original post by Nepene

Choking has been popular with every woman I've been with

You're 21 ffs! It's normal for women in England who haven't even graduated to be into violent sex? I must be getting old; I used to be "with it", but now what I'm "with" isn't it, and what "it" is seems weird and scary to me.

@ the other poster who referenced sharps play, I personally wouldn't do it but it is fundamentally consensual and about playing with sensation, not pretending you're a Viking ravishing a nun on Lindisfarne.

I have to confess that when I see a really fit guy, nice biceps, masculine, tallish, the most base sexual instincts come to the fore and I think, "I wouldn't mind being manhandled by him!", and then 100,000 years of evolution kicks in and I think, "until I did mind". It's not about domination, it's always consensual, and I'd always want a cuddle at the end!

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 41

ct2k7

Original post by TieMeUp

Women actually like crap like that? I mean, there's BSDM, but then that IMO is just demeaning.

Reply 42

TieMeUp

Original post by ct2k7

Women actually like crap like that? I mean, there's BSDM, but then that IMO is just demeaning.

No that's what domination and rape are like in real life; that is what happened to one of my closest friends. The other situation is something I experienced (one of my close mates having sex with his wife in circumstances that would be be considered presumptively non-consensual under British law).

Both situations appalled and disgusted me, and from what I can see it's only people who don't understand what domination and rape mean, who have never seen its effects, who think you can actually simulate it in a way that's healthy and meaningful, rather than degrading to both and a joke on their own lack of worldliness and life experience.

Reply 43

ct2k7

Original post by TieMeUp

I was going to say, sex against will is clearly rape. Though, I don't think rape is dominance.

When it comes to dominance, I think dominance would be exerting power, but not necessarily force. That said, I am into the BDSM world, but that's what domination is.

Reply 44

TieMeUp

Original post by ct2k7

Just quickly with regards to dominance, that is its inherent definition; its only meaning. To exert your will on someone else; rape does not require physical force or the threat of violence. To validly consent to sex, you need to have the freedom to consent, and the capacity to consent. A person who is truly dominated would not have the emotional fortitude and capacity to do so.

With regards to being into the BDSM world, I'm very much into bondage and discipline, and it has very little in it that resembles forcefulness; in my experience and those who are like-minded, it has always been something that's far more playful, more about experimenting with physical sensation and edging and teasing than pretending you're forcing your will on another individual.

The SM side of the community did seem a little darker, perhaps a little rougher and more risky physically, but again it was always undeniably consensual and no-one ever thought that the limits were set by anyone other than the sub.

Both schools always seemed to practice something a little more adult, a little less coarse, than an almost foetal undergraduate choking his similarly barely adult girlfriend and pretending he's the all-conquering hero ravishing the village maidens. I don't think domination really exists except as a cipher for rape fantasies for those who don't understand its truly repulsive and degrading character.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 45

ct2k7

Original post by TieMeUp

Just quickly with regards to dominance, that is its inherent definition; its only meaning. To exert your will on someone else; rape does not require force or violence, merely a lack of consent.

In most cases, there will be resistance, and force / violence. There are once of course, with the victim being drugged. Indeed, all rape is, is the lack of consent given in any form.

Well I'm very much into bondage and discipline, and it has very little in it that resembles forcefulness; in my experience and those who are like-minded, it has always been something that's far more playful, more about experimenting with physical sensation and edging and teasing than pretending you're forcing your will on another individual.

Can I have you? Though, I am more into D/s. The playful side just spices things up :biggrin:

The SM side of the community did seem a little darker, perhaps a little rougher and more risky physically, but again it was always undeniably consensual and no-one ever thought that the limits were set by anyone other than the sub.

I haven't experienced the SM side in a long time, but it would appear so.

Both schools always seemed to practice something a little more adult, a little less coarse, than an almost foetal undergraduate choking his similarly barely adult girlfriend and pretending he's the all-conquering hero ravishing the village maidens. I don't think domination really exists except as a cipher for the deluded.

It is more mature yet immature in ways that I can't describe.

Reply 46

TieMeUp

Original post by ct2k7

In most cases, there will be resistance, and force / violence. There are once of course, with the victim being drugged. Indeed, all rape is, is the lack of consent given in any form.

I think we disagree on emphasis; the actual language of the sexual offences act has a two-part formulation that involves the freedom to consent and the capacity to consent as being crucial prerequisites, and acquiescence is not consent. But from an aerial perspective, we are in broad agreement.

Can I have you? Though, I am more into D/s. The playful side just spices things up :biggrin:

Haha are you just engaging in our team's natural predilection for cheeky flirtation or are you on the market? ;-) (Or indeed a cheeky straight boy whose picked up that trait?) Pvt messages of course can answer that question.

It is more mature yet immature in ways that I can't describe.

I tell you why it irritates and disturbs me; I get the feeling that a lot of the women think saying they have a kink for rough sex makes them trendy, and a lot of young guys have an undeniable biological imperative there... but submitting to it and not exploring finer and more sophisticated expressions of sexuality means they probably end up at 50 and the most interesting thing they've done was before they were married and the most banal commercial bondage porn is about as far as anything resembling excitement exists in their sex life.

It irritates me because BDSM, from my perspective, is supposed to be about ****ing with sensation, and mental states, and role plays, in a way that transcends and totally blows away penetration intercourse. I don't think you're equipped with the life experience and insight to start getting into that when you're that young, so it seems like a superficial trendy conceit from where I'm standing, and one that can only exist in the absence of real life experience of the consequences of sexual violence, absence of consent and so on.

Anyways, do pvt me :-)

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 47

ct2k7

Original post by TieMeUp

That would be correct :smile:

Either way, my girlfriend would probably kill me :/, but not before I get rough with her :redface:

I agree with you there, but I had to smile. I'm not sure why women wanting rough sex makes them think that it's trendy? Do they really want to reach that raw animalistic behavior, or do they want to satisfy an insatiable stomach for that social status?

To me, it is something much more intimate and ritualistic that just normal sex. Whilst precluding role-play, the chance for a deeper bonding with the person exists, and I think it's healthy to explore that.

I don't think you're equipped with the life experience and insight to start getting into that when you're that young, so it seems like a superficial trendy conceit from where I'm standing, and one that can only exist in the absence of real life experience of the consequences of sexual violence, absence of consent and so on.

The one thing I can't have, being here, and in an LDR is what I want to explore - with my partner. Yes, I am not equipped with the life experiences, but I am surrounded by, and talk to everyday, with people who are into this exploration; an invaluable resource at that.

Anyways, do pvt me :-)

you beat me to it :angry:

Reply 48

TieMeUp

Original post by ct2k7

Either way, my girlfriend would probably kill me :/, but not before I get rough with her :redface:

Well, you and my primary ****bud can tie me and your girlfriend up and have a bit of a show and tell, swap stories and techniques, could be fun ;-) Anyways, you know how to contact me.

I don't feel well equipped to comment on female sexual dynamics from personal experience, but simply to say that none of my close female friends have expressed desires to engage in anything along those lines.

And animalistic! Its roughness is a bit primal, a bit grrrr, but my life experiences and historical awareness makes it hard for me to see most women as being objective enough to choose a sexual predilection along those lines (being a misogynist comes with the homo territory). On the other hand, I don't feel *as* threatened by a kind of manhandling aesthetic in same-gender relations because you always have that Greek warriors / bromancey / competitive wrestling framework to fall back on.

After all the exertion and grinding and competition, everyone's a good sport, and no one is worse off. When women have achieved true sexual and social liberation, it might be less alien to me. I wouldn't want my (presumable future gay test-tube) daughter to be into it, frankly.

I suppose I feel ill-equipped to comment; from the construction and cadence of your posts, I expected you were slightly older than I. Seeing that you're younger, in fact closer to the ages of which I was so scathing, I'm feeling like I'm standing on quicksand.

you beat me to it :angry:

I dominated you in that round :-) Of course you could always come and tie me up to even the score :-)

Reply 49

JD.27

Original post by TieMeUp

it just seems like voluntarily buying into the historically lesser status of women.

I don't think domination equates to lesser status, most girls I've been with like to be dominated, in fact the stronger they appear on face value the more they seem to be in to it. Men and women's sexual preferences aren't the same, on the most part men like to dominate and women like to be dominated, it doesn't mean acting on this natural urge is 'buying into' any sort of oppression.

Original post by TieMeUp

from what I can see it's only people who don't understand what domination and rape mean, who have never seen its effects, who think you can actually simulate it in a way that's healthy and meaningful, rather than degrading to both and a joke on their own lack of worldliness and life experience.

A girl I was with fantasised about being 'completely taken' by a man because she was so desirable, that being said of course she wouldn't be happy if she were actually raped. Domination can be consensual and it doesn't degrade someone or make them ignorant if they choose to act on their sexual preferences. Rape is awful but this is fantasy so what's the issue?

Original post by TieMeUp

they probably end up at 50 and the most interesting thing they've done was before they were married and the most banal commercial bondage porn is about as far as anything resembling excitement exists in their sex life.)

Sex hipster? Different strokes and all, whose to say they didn't get more kicks out of their 'banal commercial' sex than you did through your underground indie sex?

Original post by TieMeUp

It irritates me because BDSM, from my perspective, is supposed to be about ****ing with sensation, and mental states, and role plays, in a way that transcends and totally blows away penetration intercourse. I don't think you're equipped with the life experience and insight to start getting into that when you're that young, so it seems like a superficial trendy conceit from where I'm standing, and one that can only exist in the absence of real life experience of the consequences of sexual violence, absence of consent and so on.

Could you explain further? If preference is subjective then surely you're never too young to feel 'blown away'. What mental states/role plays are involved that require so much life experience?

Reply 50

TieMeUp

Original post by JD.27

I don't think domination equates to lesser status, most girls I've been with like to be dominated

I have to confess to finding this surprising; whilst I've not had extensive experiences with the opposite gender in a sexual sense, it also doesn't tally with my experiences in conversations with my heterosexual male mates and female friends.

There is a sense in which a sense of manhandling, being a bit playfully rough, can be quite hot, very grrrrr (as it were). I've always enjoyed the company of a man who is fit enough to put me over his shoulder and carry me to bed (genetic debris from our caveman past?), and even a bit of jostling and wrestling as a prelude to sex is quite hot.... but it's always consensual, it's never done in a particularly serious way, that physical competition (in the same way I wrestled with my mates when I was younger) is a natural thing for guys, and offering a kind of coy, ironic submission when you "lose" seems reasonably harmless.

On the other hand, a man choking a woman during sex, using language associaetd with lack of consent, degradation, unsettles me because I know how rape affects people, how damaging it is to its victims, that it isn't hot, it's repulsive, violent and deeply upsetting.

in fact the stronger they appear on face value the more they seem to be in to it. Men and women's sexual preferences aren't the same, on the most part men like to dominate and women like to be dominated, it doesn't mean acting on this natural urge is 'buying into' any sort of oppression.

I have some reflexive fears that for some women it would be the product of some form of trauma, a desire to please men, or a combination of both. This may be a product of the extreme male-centrism that manifests in a lot of gay guys, but I would be very concerned if my mother or cousin or (presumably future gay test-tube) daughter were engaged in this. I would be very concerned,

It's because it conveys, in my mind, a sense of flippancy. I don't think a woman who was raped, or who has witnessed first-hand the devastation that violent rape can inflict on a woman, would ever associate it with something sexually desirable.

I think that role-playing and fantasy, mind games, power plays, sexual experimentation, are all laudable and worthwhile to explore. But I associate the general rough sex / domination with a lack of imagination, a sense that it is very banal and common (I only have to watch a typical straight porn movie to see how pervasive the domination theme is), and that people who claim to adhere to this kink are in fact far too young to know what they're into, and don't have the life experience to understand where something might not be a healthy fantasy.

(For example, what if a sexual partner asked you to role play being a concentration camp guard? A few times I've been with men who wanted to role-play me being their father, so presumably something that resembled child sexual abuse,... some of it crosses a line, and I believe that if it's something you wouldn't feel comfortable explaining to your children when age appropriate, there should be questions about its general appropriateness)

Sex hipster? Different strokes and all, whose to say they didn't get more kicks out of their 'banal commercial' sex than you did through your underground indie sex?

When I was 21, I hooked up with a very attractive, fit guy who was extremely considerate and very tender. He asked if I'd like to be tied up; I'd never even considered it and would have been circumspect, but he was lovely and not at all threatening or suspect; I said yes and we played for a few hours with rope and spanking, etc. It wasn't violent, it wasn't angry, it was fun and funny, it was tender, I laughed, I was gratified sexually, it was an absolute revelation, and since then I've continued to explore that. It seems qualitatively finer than someone asking to be called slut, choked and treated like they're being raped.

If instead of smacking my arse and tying my wrists, and calling me "naughty" with barely suppressed mirth, he'd wanted to smack my face, tie my neck and call me faggot, I'd see it as repulsive and unhealthy, and that's how a lot of this stuff comes across to me.

Could you explain further? If preference is subjective then surely you're never too young to feel 'blown away'. What mental states/role plays are involved that require so much life experience?

Indeed not, but I think by heterosexual standards I am very sexually experienced (perhaps a little above average by gay standards). I also had a very interesting early adulthood that exposed me to many influences and people that are not typical from someone of my background. It gave me a some perspectives and insights, and life experiences, that are fairly unique in my cohort (guys my age, from Sydney), as far as I know. But even with many of those experiences, at 20 I wasn't even fully conscious of who I was, let alone ready to start assuming other identities. The first principle, the starting point for any of this stuff, is "Know thyself". When you've started to master that, go ahead and start exploring what other selves you might have.

If a young person is barely familiar with the normal ways of expressing sexuality, then they may not be ready to explore more abstract forms of sexual expression. I suppose a lot of it comes down to the fact that a women asking a man to pull her hair and **** her in a rough manner and call her names, when she is barely at the traditional age of majority, would be a woman who is not fully cognisant of how these things can affect your sexuality and outlook, and the type of men it can sometimes attract.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 51

stillgotlegs

My ex was happy for a while, but it started to affect us. He liked the show of it, I think, but not what it actually entailed, he was probably more of a feminist than me.

I kid you not, he turned around to me once and said
"B-but don't you feel like I'm oppressing you?"

Very sweet, and he'll be perfect for a delicate flower or someone who wants to be cherished in the bedroom. Meanwhile, spank me harder or gtfo.

Reply 52

JD.27

Original post by TieMeUp

Thanks that made it all a lot clearer, nice to see some perspective. Though I don't think a history of abuse etc. is always the case. For example I've noticed especially in sexually repressive cultures a lot of 'good girls' like to be called sluts etc. Think this has more to do with making them feel like they're free/rebelling than it does self-loathing. But overall very good points, definitely cleared things up and see things quite differently now.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 53

Anonymous #5

I told my boy fried this. He is too sweet to pull it off. Now I end up dominating which is okay but does not turn me on as much.

Reply 54

Nepene

Original post by TieMeUp

Consent is not a relevant factor in the elements of assault occasioning actual bodily harm (See R v Brown [1994] 1 AC 212), and that can often be where sado-masochism ends up.

See R. v Wilson (1996) R. v Atkin & Others (1992) or the manslaughter case of R. v Slingsby 1995. Consent is a relevent factor in the elements of assault occassioning actual bodily harm when the defendents are heterosexuals. In R v Brown they were homosexuals.

A lot of people are confused by that case understandably, since it contradicts a lot of precedent. I just think of it like this- the justice system is homophobic and hates gay people. Don't get convicted of a sexual crime if you're gay.

Of course, assault or battery in a sexual context (a bit of BD) would barely even cause a snigger at the CPS, and at the other end of the spectrum, a woman who asks you to inflict Grievous Bodily Harm is clearly mentally ill and so consent is unarguably irrelevant.

The moral of the story? Keep it safe and sensible people; don't do anything that would actually damage or injure your lover, keep it light, have fun and enjoy yourself :smile:

The moral of the story? Keep it safe and sensible if you like it up the bum. Otherwise, have fun.

Reply 55

Bukhatir

Original post by Anonymous

How would you feel? Would it freak you out, would you be up for it? And how far would you be willing to take it before you felt it was too much?

All the way

Reply 56

blahblah772

I'd whack out call of duty

Reply 57

Lucia.

I have a problem with wanting to be dominated in bed. Most guys have said no. :frown:

*sniff*

Reply 58

ct2k7

Original post by Lucia.

I have a problem with wanting to be dominated in bed. Most guys have said no. :frown:

*sniff*

I'd enjoy it..

Reply 59

Anonymous #6

Original post by Nepene

Choking has been popular with every woman I've been with, like spanking.

Really?!!

My boyfriend once put his hand across my throat during sex. He got really hurt and offended when I freaked out, and said most women liked it. It nearly killed our sex life completely, it upset me that he would even want to do that to me.

I hate being dominated in any way, although I do get a kick out of dominating a man and him letting me have complete control over him (not something my boyfriend is willing to let me do). I was forcibly raped when I was younger, my boyfriend knew this. Quite why he'd think a girl who had been pinned down and forced for real would want to play at it is completely beyond me :s-smilie: