Science graduates 'lack skills needed by business'

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It isn't really "business" as we see it on this forum that they're talking about.

The example of needing Biology graduates with statistical skills to work in pharmaceuticals for example, that's the kind of thing that they mean and as such it's perfectly reasonable.

Reply 61

Joinedup

Original post by Dirac Delta Function

That explains a lot.

doesn't really mean much really imo, thatcher was originally an industrial chemist so you might think she'd have been great for both manufacturing and women in this country :/

Reply 62

Sprockette

I think they need to improve jobs as well as graduates. Degrees definitely need to include more practical skills and industry experience, but there needs to be a job at the end of it worthwhile.

Maybe Maths (and English) should be compulsory through til A levels. Admittedly I'm saying this without much info on the structure of A levels, so go easy on me! I went to college in Ireland where everyone does Maths, English and Irish all the way. You can choose not to do honours if you want (most do pass).

Reply 63

NB_ide

Original post by lightburns

For jobs that require 7 years of study

such as?

£30k is not well paid. It's not a paltry sum, sure, but you can get that kind of salary on jobs that don't require you to cut out almost a decade for education.

Who can?

I can?

Anyone can?

How, what's the big secret?

Original post by No Man

So what's your brilliant idea for a service?

What?

Reply 64

Slumpy

Original post by NB_ide

such as?

Who can?

I can?

Anyone can?

How, what's the big secret?

Well, quants are pretty much a job that requires that. They pay quite a lot.

No, I don't think you could, because every post I've ever seen by you is idiotic. But I'm sure with work, most normal people could make it there.

Reply 65

Sean9001

Original post by babyjustin

But aren't they forced into business because of the extremely low salaries offered - around £30000 - because of myopia by research institutions like GSK. Why shouldn't they be in business anyway. The most successful biotechnology companies where started by a couple of graduates with a brilliant idea for a new drug or scaling drug production so I don't see what the point your making there is.

You have to be from another planet to call £30,000 an extremely low salary. £15k between a mother and son makes for perfectly comfortable living.

Reply 66

NB_ide

Original post by Slumpy

Most (i.e. at least more than 50%) normal people?

Can you define "normal"? Because most people do not earn 30k. You claim that most normal people can/could - so does this "normal" criteria ironically narrows down the range of people we're considering.

Or is the key bit "with work"? An intangible, un-testable and un-provable proviso that gives us a convenient but meaningless way to blame and explain why absurd acheivements that supposedly anyone can make are in fact very rare.

Reply 67

NB_ide

Original post by Sean9001

You have to be from another planet to call £30,000 an extremely low salary. £15k between a mother and son makes for perfectly comfortable living.

They can't help it - salary expectations peak around age 18, and then drop rapidly.

Reply 68

Hopple

Nothing stopping a business taking on a graduate and training them up, just being picky because they can. I'm sure every employer would like a horde of quick-thinking geniuses who worked to the bone for free and never took a day off, but that's not going to happen.

Reply 69

Politricks

Original post by Sean9001

You have to be from another planet to call £30,000 an extremely low salary. £15k between a mother and son makes for perfectly comfortable living.

With significant help from the government.

Reply 70

Slumpy

Original post by NB_ide

I think if people really wanted to get loaded, to the exclusion of all other things in their life, it's not that much of an issue. Take a couple of jobs, the pay rate you need isn't that high. £600 a week isn't that much to be earning. I'm not saying you'd enjoy it, but I think significantly more people than you seem to could do it.

Reply 71

Sean9001

Original post by Politricks

With significant help from the government.

£15,000 is my total household income, including child benefits.

Reply 72

Aeschylus

Original post by rafale

Current precarious condition in Britain is due to the lack of Industry and Research & Development in the science and technology sector. Yes there is Dyson and BAE systems, but this is no where near what Britain was before. As an international student studying engineering, i feel there are no employment prospects here, or those which are lucrative. Business graduates don't work anywhere near as hard and get paid so much more. Why would people study science then?

But look how Britain and other nations which went the way of financial services, are paying dearly for it, meanwhile those countries which have strong manufacturing and R&D base, are doing well enough.

It really is a shame.

Don't know if you read the times but there was a really good booklet that came with it about companies looking for engineering students, I was surprised by how many there were since we always here about there's no manufacturing left! :smile:

Reply 73

Llamageddon

Original post by Smack

I don't see the problem here. British businesses simply do not pay enough to attract the type of talent they need. They can whine to the government about how we "don't produce enough STEM graduates", but at the same time they produce zero incentive for the right type of graduates to pursue careers with them.

This is probably the best post I've seen on the subject.

There are tons of people capable of working in science that are unwilling to do it. I personally have a first from UCL, a distinction in my masters and work as a research assistant. I have absolutely no intention of doing a phd and every intention of leaving science for a more rewarding career elsewhere when appropriate. Why? Pay is OK but not when you consider my hours and educational background. Stability is rubbish. I'm one lost grant away from redundancy at all times. You can't get a mortgage on that.

People who would otherwise be good scientists are instead attracted to vocational healthcare degrees, engineering, economics and so on. Many science graduates leave the discipline for greener pastures. A lot of talent is lost because science careers simply don't offer the working conditions, pay, job security and dare I say it job satisfaction of many of the alternatives.

This turned into a bit of a rant so probably doesn't make sense.

Reply 74

No Man

if they have Capital and a good idea for a service or good that can generate cash flow

Original post by NB_ide

What?

You want to go into business presumably, so what's your idea for a good service that you can produce?

Reply 75

NB_ide

Original post by No Man

You want to go into business presumably, so what's your idea for a good service that you can produce?

Why would you assume that?

Reply 76

No Man

Original post by NB_ide

Why would you assume that?

Original post by NB_ide

brb going into business.

I'm guessing you said that for trolling reasons then.

Reply 77

SnakehipsTTC

I am going to study biochemistry at Sheffield university, and have a real passion for the subject... reading this thread and the article has really got me down worrying about what my future holds for me. :frown:

Reply 78

babyjustin

Original post by Sean9001

You have to be from another planet to call £30,000 an extremely low salary. £15k between a mother and son makes for perfectly comfortable living.

30000 is a good salary particularly for a graduate but what I meant was that scientists can't surpass it at the height of their career whereas lorry drivers are earning 40000+ and even threatened to go on strike.