why are vocational things taught at uni

I'm sorry but your argument has no evidence to back it up. You're just making assumptions that most people who do 'vocational' degrees end up earning minimum wage, which is simply untrue unless you can show me statistics to prove it otherwise.

FFS, I didn't say that that applies to every vocational job. I used the example of people who work in care homes, of which I know a few and none of them are on much above the minimum wage. And said that it is these kinds of jobs where almost every post is on/ just above the minimum wage that are the problem.

So therefore because the few you know haven't done well does that mean that everyone who did their degree hasn't done well?

And the second part of that post is just nonsense. Where are you getting this information from?

Medicine is a vocational degree. WHAT THEN?

The people that I know haven't done degrees, they have NVQs. They say that every post they look for is on/just above the minimum wage. And it doesn't take much to flick through a paper/job site to find the same is true almost everywhere, unless you find a really posh home or possibly a home in London.

What second part? I explained how these kinds of jobs with degrees are a problem earlier.

Did I not make it clear enough in my OP that I'm talking about jobs that up until recently you only needed NVQs or apprenticeship for. the space for a title is only small.

I bet you didn't even read my OP.

Sorry but what are you even talking about now? I thought your whole point was trying to prove that people who do vocational degrees have trouble finding jobs about the minimum wage?

How are they a problem? You still haven't presented one bit of evidence apart from your experience with a couple of people...

The government gives the unis money for you to go to uni.

You graduate and get a job, earning the minimum wage

On this you earn roughly 13k a year currently.

On this amount 1) you pay hardly any income tax and 2) you don't pay any of your student loan off

Thus the government is getting hardly of their money back that they paid in to your education. After a few years you might start earning over 20k, but after 20years of graduating your debt is wiped for you. But the government has still given that money to the unis. So is still worse off.

No. My whole point is, why do some of these jobs need uni degrees. The bit about the minimum wage is a part of it. As the government/ quangos etc are saying these jobs need people with degrees, but because they're poorly paid jobs, it's not wise for the government to have to give out the loans for them when hardly any of the loan will be paid back.

The workers personally aren't the problem the jobs for them that are only on the minimum wage are. When they've had to go to uni to get them.

What degree is there that only gives you jobs in minimum wage? :L

or that such vocational jobs shouldn't need degrees (the whole point of this thread) NVQs have been good enough for decades, whats wrong with them now?

Vocational qualfications are ones that are geared to towards training you for a specific job.

Such as medicine and law. They're not always stuff like NVQ.

The labelling of vocational and academic is bull. Some 'academic' subject you might consider crap and pointless and the same with vocational.

who pays for the NVQs?

up to level 3 its the government, then its the employers (who are substituted or run by the government) so with health care it goes back to the government

but that's just coming from a vocationally trained health care profesional

My boyfriends brother (and other people I know) work with the mentally ill/ old. They only needed NVQs, but people now need degrees to do their job, but the people that are now joining them aren't getting paid much more than the minimum wage anyway, so aren't paying off their student debt.

I agree that there are now too many micky mouse degrees about.

But I also think that there are also too many degrees out there for vocational jobs that shouldn't need a degree, they're not micky mouse degrees, but should only need apprenticeships/NVQs, like they have done in the past. There are many jobs that you could do until recently with NVQs and other such qualifications, that you now need to go to uni to do. It's just making more red tape and more debt.

Who else agrees?

I do think that they're worthwhile jobs and I respect anyone who works honestly for a living, for example my boyfriends brother who works with the mentally ill. He has something like nvq qualifications, but says that anyone who now trains to do the same thing as him has to go to uni. But do they really need a degree to do such jobs? he's just looking after them. If there is some medical issue then a nurse/doctor is called.

Another point I should make is that people like my boyfriends brother work for just over the minimum wage. With the way student loans work, people like him will barely pay any of their loan off, so the government who ultimately give out this money is getting poorer (even if you icnlude the small amount of extra income tax the government would recieve) and the unis richer. Obviously this doesn't apply to every vocational job, but for some such as those who work in care homes, most of the jobs are on or slightly above the minimum wage.

I do think that these people need training by the way. But why aren't NVQs and apprenticeships etc good enough anymore, they have been for several years now. That's the main issue here.

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you agree with yourself?