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Original post by sellerofdreams
I kinda agree with you but I disagree with your dressing provocatively point because ultimately, who decides what is provocative? A pair of jeans and a sleeveless blouse is seen as quite provocative in India, but saying that the victim was raped because she was wearing jeans is sad and rather stupid. Intoxication definitely plays a part in it though.
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Obviously culture and the society you live in would determine what was provocative or not. I think there is general knowledge of what is or isn't provocative in Britain.
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Original post by medbh4805
To be honest, you're the one who's coming across as quite naive. The time I experienced the most sexual harassment in a nightclub was actually in a gay club, I was completely sober wearing dms, jeans and a tshirt. I don't even think I was wearing makeup. Fortunately the bouncers saw what was going on and intervened. What 'precaution' should I have taken? Should I have never left the house in the first place?
It can happen to anyone in any circumstances, and you're deluding yourself if you think it could never happen to you.
It can happen to anyone in any circumstances, and you're deluding yourself if you think it could never happen to you.
Did you read my post? I didn't say it completely destroyed the likelihood, I just said that being precautious would reduce it slightly. A lot of rapes are committed by people that women knew or trusted and that is another case completely, I'm jut highlighting that certain actions elevate the risks.
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Original post by danny111
AHAHAHAHHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAand we all think the Daily Mail is trash. Whoever found this picture is a genius!
AHAHAHAHAand we all think the Daily Mail is trash. Whoever found this picture is a genius!
Anyone remember these pictures in a similar article from a few years ago?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by venenecinema
I read the previous posts and you're still an idiot. Nobody used the word deserved except for you. You're clearly just seeking out an argument and looking for somebody to moan at. Find something better to do with your time.
Here are just some of the posts that say it's the woman's fault for being raped (I truly believe that Rybee is a rapist from his posts):
Original post by Rybee
The choice of target is obvious. Do I have sympathy for the passed out drunken woman if she got raped?
No. It's self inflicted. /End of story.
The choice of target is obvious. Do I have sympathy for the passed out drunken woman if she got raped?
No. It's self inflicted. /End of story.
Original post by SuziieB
If you dress like a slut and are so drunk you cannot even speak, whose fault is it that some scum picks you off the street and rapes you?
Original post by Rybee
It's common sense. Go out looking for sexual attention and make yourself vulnerable and you're going to get the wrong kind of sexual attention. I have no sympathy for anybody who gets raped whilst they're so intoxicated they can't walk. If you don't respect yourself enough to safeguard yourself, you run the very real risk of being sexually assaulted or raped.
No sympathy.
It's common sense. Go out looking for sexual attention and make yourself vulnerable and you're going to get the wrong kind of sexual attention. I have no sympathy for anybody who gets raped whilst they're so intoxicated they can't walk. If you don't respect yourself enough to safeguard yourself, you run the very real risk of being sexually assaulted or raped.
No sympathy.
Original post by Creat0r
Dressing up like a tart and drinking so much you can't walk properly and being somewhere a rapist would look for a victim can be described as "your own fault".
Dressing up like a tart and drinking so much you can't walk properly and being somewhere a rapist would look for a victim can be described as "your own fault".
This guy seems to be the only one with self control in this thread:
Original post by Foghorn Leghorn
What? It doesn't matter how drunk a girl is, a guy should know better than to rape her.
Original post by danny111
To be honest though, there's having fun and there's plain embarrassment.
True, but what's embarrassment sober is fun drunk. The lady carrying the plant around is a bit idiotic, and the passed out drunks are being reckless but this is just the typical scene from your high street on any given weekend and I'm pretty at one point most of have done something similar.
Original post by Dragonfly07
Here are just some of the posts that say it's the woman's fault for being raped (I truly believe that Rybee is a rapist from his posts):
This guy seems to be the only one with self control in this thread:
This guy seems to be the only one with self control in this thread:
As I said, nobody used the word "deserve". Prove your point or be quiet.
Original post by SuziieB
Did you read my post? I didn't say it completely destroyed the likelihood, I just said that being precautious would reduce it slightly. A lot of rapes are committed by people that women knew or trusted and that is another case completely, I'm jut highlighting that certain actions elevate the risks.
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But do you have any proof that those actions actually do elevate the risk? Rapists look for people who are vulnerable, and you can be vulnerable without dressing 'provocatively' (whatever that means) or drinking alcohol.
I actually think these rape myths actually give people a false sense of security. I don't do these things, so it could never happen to me (or my cousin, or my sister). Or even 'they brought it on themselves by doing X it so if I or my friend/brother/cousin gets carried away they're only partly responsible' (when in reality they are entirely responsible). People need to see this sort of warped logic for what it really is, rape apologism.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by venenecinema
As I said, nobody used the word "deserve". Prove your point or be quiet.
Are you serious? No one has to explicitly say "deserve" to imply it. "their fault" = they deserved it.
Do you have any sides in this or are you just going to stay in the sidelines pointing out stupid semantics?
Original post by medbh4805
Do you have any stats to back this up?
An issue like rape is not the easiest to talk about in terms of statistics since it is often hard to conduct a controlled study due to the number of factors which contribute towards rape.
I found this which effectively words my thoughts on the issue:
Antecedents of sexual victimization: factors discriminating victims from nonvictims.
Synovitz LB, Byrne TJ., J Am Coll Health. Jan;46(4):151-8. (1998)
Partial abstract:
The variables found to be related to women's being sexually victimized were (a) number of different lifetime sexual partners, (b) provocative dress, and (c) alcohol use.
An Examination of Date Rape, Victim Dress, and Perceiver Variables Within the Context of Attribution Theory
Workman JE, Freeburg EW., Sex Roles, Volume 41, Numbers 3-4, 261-277 (1995)
This study found in part that the way a woman choose to dress is sometimes taken as a statement about her character including vulnerability, desire and/or willingness to have sex and provocation of males which consequently affects the likelihood of rape, including date rape.
The effects of clothing and dyad sex composition on perceptions of sexual intent: Do women and men evaluate these cues differently.
Abbey, A., Cozzarelli, C., McLaughlin, K., & Harnish, R. J. (1987) Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 17, 108–126.
Partial abstract:
A laboratory study was conducted in which subjects viewed a photograph of two students in a classroom. As predicted, male subjects rated female targets as more sexy and seductive than did female subjects. Also as predicted, female targets who wore revealing clothing were rated as more sexy and seductive than those wearing nonrevealing clothing. Female targets were rated higher on sexual traits regardless of the gender of their partner.
The study went on to infer that provocative dress can lead to an increased chance of date or spousal rape in some situations (primarily spousal and/or date rape).
Conclusion
While it is an unpopular view, I think it is safe to say that provocative dress may increase the chance of rape in some situations.
At the moment it is hard to say anything for sure, as there are too many variable factors. Rape statistics are often misreported or not reported at all. We don't know enough about how people interpret or respond to clothing. There also seems to be a lack of studies focusing on this area, which is understandable given the problems in obtaining data.
Synovitz LB, Byrne TJ., J Am Coll Health. Jan;46(4):151-8. (1998)
Partial abstract:
The variables found to be related to women's being sexually victimized were (a) number of different lifetime sexual partners, (b) provocative dress, and (c) alcohol use.
An Examination of Date Rape, Victim Dress, and Perceiver Variables Within the Context of Attribution Theory
Workman JE, Freeburg EW., Sex Roles, Volume 41, Numbers 3-4, 261-277 (1995)
This study found in part that the way a woman choose to dress is sometimes taken as a statement about her character including vulnerability, desire and/or willingness to have sex and provocation of males which consequently affects the likelihood of rape, including date rape.
The effects of clothing and dyad sex composition on perceptions of sexual intent: Do women and men evaluate these cues differently.
Abbey, A., Cozzarelli, C., McLaughlin, K., & Harnish, R. J. (1987) Journal of Applied Social Psychology, 17, 108–126.
Partial abstract:
A laboratory study was conducted in which subjects viewed a photograph of two students in a classroom. As predicted, male subjects rated female targets as more sexy and seductive than did female subjects. Also as predicted, female targets who wore revealing clothing were rated as more sexy and seductive than those wearing nonrevealing clothing. Female targets were rated higher on sexual traits regardless of the gender of their partner.
The study went on to infer that provocative dress can lead to an increased chance of date or spousal rape in some situations (primarily spousal and/or date rape).
Conclusion
While it is an unpopular view, I think it is safe to say that provocative dress may increase the chance of rape in some situations.
At the moment it is hard to say anything for sure, as there are too many variable factors. Rape statistics are often misreported or not reported at all. We don't know enough about how people interpret or respond to clothing. There also seems to be a lack of studies focusing on this area, which is understandable given the problems in obtaining data.
Of course you have to consider other factors such as a woman's level of sobriety, a woman's surroundings, ex partners etc, but dressing in such a provocative manner attracts a lot of attention and in a state of drunkenness, an opportunist is not going to turn an opportunity down.
This is just my view... I don't mean to spark a massive debate.
Original post by lisia
What kind of a messed up individual would steal that poor girls trousers!?
Original post by venenecinema
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Original post by medbh4805
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Original post by sellerofdreams
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Original post by SuziieB
...
Sorry for the misunderstanding, of course it's the rapists fault. What I'm saying is too many people act like everyone else should be responsible for them rather than be responsible for themselves. Good job on picking out one part of my post and ignoring the rest, yeah because that's the way to argue your points.
No, you can't say a rapist should know better than to rape, that's an extremely stupid way to think about it. The best way to approach it is by taking precautions and avoid putting yourself in the situation when it can often be avoided by looking out for yourself. This is the reason why the police spend time reminding people to stay safe, it's the reason why there are locks on your front doors and cars, because we don't live in a perfect world and if you don't take precautions, such as not locking your front door, then even though the thief is the bad guy, you too are to blame for your own stupidity.
The truth is TSR, the majority of people out there do agree with my opinions, including most women. If you don't believe me, ask your parents, ask your teachers, ask your friends, you will find most will have the same opinion as me and you will find those that disagree tend to be lying self-caring people or a delusional yellow-flag waving tit.
Original post by Rybee
That is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever read on TSR. I'm a bit fed up with this argument so I can't be bothered to reply to all the points you've conjured but it's honestly the most pathetic stance ever.
The amount of people on here who use the "can't be bothered, you're pathetic" retaliation and get ridiculously pissy at perfectly valid posts is quite incredible. I take it to mean they simply can't think of anything remotely believable/acceptable to counter the argument.
Original post by jamboogy
An issue like rape is not the easiest to talk about in terms of statistics since it is often hard to conduct a controlled study due to the number of factors which contribute towards rape.
I found this which effectively words my thoughts on the issue:
Of course you have to consider other factors such as a woman's level of sobriety, a woman's surroundings, ex partners etc, but dressing in such a provocative manner attracts a lot of attention and in a state of drunkenness, an opportunist is not going to turn an opportunity down.
This is just my view... I don't mean to spark a massive debate.
I found this which effectively words my thoughts on the issue:
Of course you have to consider other factors such as a woman's level of sobriety, a woman's surroundings, ex partners etc, but dressing in such a provocative manner attracts a lot of attention and in a state of drunkenness, an opportunist is not going to turn an opportunity down.
This is just my view... I don't mean to spark a massive debate.
Interesting. Could you provide a link? Is this available on JSTOR?
I don't really think their conclusion could follow from their methodology however. All they did was show some photographs to people, and "female targets who wore revealing clothing were rated as more sexy and seductive than those wearing nonrevealing clothing". Well, isn't this obvious?
It doesn't actually seem to have proved a link between coming across as sexy and being raped (this is simply assumed, which is quite a logical jump), only a link between wearing revealing clothing and appearing 'sexy and seductive' to men.
One could just as easily argue that a woman who attracts attention is less likely to be raped, because a rapist wouldn't want to draw attention to himself by going after her, especially if other men appear to also be interested in her...
Since you stated your opinion was 'fact', I don't think it's unreasonable to request evidence...
Original post by Creat0r
Sorry for the misunderstanding, of course it's the rapists fault. What I'm saying is too many people act like everyone else should be responsible for them rather than be responsible for themselves. Good job on picking out one part of my post and ignoring the rest, yeah because that's the way to argue your points.
No, you can't say a rapist should know better than to rape, that's an extremely stupid way to think about it. The best way to approach it is by taking precautions and avoid putting yourself in the situation when it can often be avoided by looking out for yourself. This is the reason why the police spend time reminding people to stay safe, it's the reason why there are locks on your front doors and cars, because we don't live in a perfect world and if you don't take precautions, such as not locking your front door, then even though the thief is the bad guy, you too are to blame for your own stupidity.
The truth is TSR, the majority of people out there do agree with my opinions, including most women. If you don't believe me, ask your parents, ask your teachers, ask your friends, you will find most will have the same opinion as me and you will find those that disagree tend to be lying self-caring people or a delusional yellow-flag waving tit.
No, you can't say a rapist should know better than to rape, that's an extremely stupid way to think about it. The best way to approach it is by taking precautions and avoid putting yourself in the situation when it can often be avoided by looking out for yourself. This is the reason why the police spend time reminding people to stay safe, it's the reason why there are locks on your front doors and cars, because we don't live in a perfect world and if you don't take precautions, such as not locking your front door, then even though the thief is the bad guy, you too are to blame for your own stupidity.
The truth is TSR, the majority of people out there do agree with my opinions, including most women. If you don't believe me, ask your parents, ask your teachers, ask your friends, you will find most will have the same opinion as me and you will find those that disagree tend to be lying self-caring people or a delusional yellow-flag waving tit.
I don't care what most people believe. That doesn't have any bearing on whether you're correct or not. Classic logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum
I'm afraid you're the one who's thinking entirely the wrong way about rape. Rape is something that happens regardless of the cirumstances, and this whole thing about 'taking precautions' just gives people a false sense of security. Rapists go after people over whom they can exert power, and to most of them it doesn't really matter what they're wearing, or even how attractive they are, because their sexuality doesn't function the same way that the average male sexuality functions. Rape is a problem, and people like you look at the victim as a way of trying to prevent the problem, because rape is inevitable. But if rape is inevitable, why do some countries have lower rates of sexual violence than others? Why do certain communities have lower rates of sexual violence than others? A lot has to do with attitudes towards consent and women's sexual autonomy. Perhaps if we as a society started seeing rape as the responsibility of the rapist not to do it rather than the woman's to prevent it we might start to see it become less common
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Rybee
I'm in no way condoning rape, it's a disgusting crime, but some girls really do not do themselves any favours at all.
I hate this attitude. I absolutely hate it.
So what if a woman wants to show her legs off? Why should she be in fear of getting raped just because of her outfit?
If, just because a person sees a woman in a short outfit, they feel the need to forcibly do their dirty deed, they are 100%, not the person getting raped.
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