What are the traits of the British upper middle class?

Original post by zara55

I'm pretty sure we're upper-middles, so I like to think we have more taste than the ordinary middles. Isn't taste and refinement supposedly one of the things that make you upper?

What one defines as "taste and refinement" is a very much matter of taste. A lot of people think having a BMW is refined. I think it screams "I'm a rich chav".

Reply 23

zara55

Original post by py0alb

What one defines as "taste and refinement" is a very much matter of taste. A lot of people think having a BMW is refined. I think it screams "I'm a rich chav".

Exactly. That shows you are upper-middle. :smile:

Reply 24

Joinedup

well some writers divide it into a commercial middle class and an intellectual middle class. needless to say the commercial middle class has been thoroughly rubbing the intellectual middle class's nose in it since 1979. Thatcher and Foot are pretty much exemplars of these type.

commercial middle class - send their kids to the most expensive school they can afford without thinking about it

intellectual middle class - quite often send their kids to comprehensives, but worry about doing so and are ready to pull them out again.

Reply 25

Original post by the bear

ah yes Geoffrey & Amelia bring up their children on the established canon of

Beatrix Potter

E. Blyton

A. Ransome

A. Buckeridge

( Geoffrey thrilled to John Buchan and Biggles )

Add in R. Compton and thats my entire childhood right there.

Of course, I still have all the books safely stored away for my own children to read. What better way to prepare them for the realities of life in 2025 than by reading stories written over 100 years ago?

Reply 26

the bear

Original post by py0alb

Add in R. Compton and thats my entire childhood right there.

Of course, I still have all the books safely stored away for my own children to read. What better way to prepare them for the realities of life in 2025 than by reading stories written over 100 years ago?

ahh yes Richmal, the wife of the well known cricketer

Reply 27

Hal.E.Lujah

19

Most Engelsist historians (myself included) would argue that all 'traits' or activities of the Middle Upper class micro culture are focused around becoming Upper Class.

These can include but are not limited to:

- Social events to achieve higher standing
- Leisure activities that display wealth
- Accents that subtly mimic the Upper Class accent
- Styles that are imitations of Upper Class ones.

Hope that's helpful to your discourse! :h:

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 28

zara55

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah

Most Engelsist historians (myself included) would argue that all 'traits' or activities of the Middle Upper class micro culture are focused around becoming Upper Class.

These can include but are not limited to:

- Social events to achieve higher standing
- Leisure activities that display wealth
- Accents that subtly mimic the Upper Class accent
- Styles that are imitations of Upper Class ones.

Hope that's helpful to your discourse! :h:

One should also remember that the upper-class specifically engage in activities, adopt mannerisms and strike poses designed to distance themselves from the upper-middles and ensure that the UMCs cannot reach their lofty status.

Reply 29

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah

Most Engelsist historians (myself included) would argue that all 'traits' or activities of the Middle Upper class micro culture are focused around becoming Upper Class.

These can include but are not limited to:

- Social events to achieve higher standing
- Leisure activities that display wealth
- Accents that subtly mimic the Upper Class accent
- Styles that are imitations of Upper Class ones.

Hope that's helpful to your discourse! :h:

Possibly true up until about 20 years ago, when the middle classes all started aping working class sensibilities by talking like cockneys and/or mancs and going to football matches.

Being middle class nowadays is actually quite culturally liberating. You get to pick the bits of upper class and working class culture that you like and no-one bats an eyelid either way.

I think working class and upper class alternate between being in fashion depending upon which group it is that the middle class are all pretending to be - I wonder if this correlates at all with Labour/Tory election victories? An interesting thought. In the mid 90s everyone wanted to be Liam Gallagher and suddenly became obsessed with the premier league, and Labour won a landslide.

10 years later, and everyone is denigrating the working class as chavs and people are starting to wear blazers: being posh is seen as a good thing. A Tory election victory.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 30

UCLEmily

Original post by py0alb

Possibly true up until about 20 years ago, when the middle classes all started aping working class sensibilities by talking like cockneys and/or mancs and going to football matches.

Being middle class nowadays is actually quite culturally liberating. You get to pick the bits of upper class and working class culture that you like and no-one bats an eyelid either way.

I think working class and upper class alternate between being in fashion depending upon which group it is that the middle class are all pretending to be - I wonder if this correlates at all with Labour/Tory election victories? An interesting thought.

Aren't there in reality lots of different groups within the middle-class? Urban upper-middles of a liberal set in Central London are very different, for example, to middle-class farmers in Gloucestershire. It's hard to generalise right across the whole class. I know what you mean about culture adoption (football being adopted by the middles is a classic example) but again it's patchy - my parents are upper-middle in an affluent part of London and very few of their neighbours would be into football. More likely opera, classical music, maybe golf, cricket, the theatre, etc.

Reply 31

Original post by UCLEmily

Aren't there in reality lots of different groups within the middle-class? Urban upper-middles of a liberal set in Central London are very different, for example, to middle-class farmers in Gloucestershire. It's hard to generalise right across the whole class. I know what you mean about culture adoption (football being adopted by the middles is a classic example) but again it's patchy - my parents are upper-middle in an affluent part of London and very few of their neighbours would be into football. More likely opera, classical music, maybe golf, cricket, the theatre, etc.

Obviously all generalisations have exceptions. But I think there is a case to be made that the country goes through cycles of alternately venerating and denigrating the upper and working classes.

The middle class is a huge and extremely diverse group, with very little in common.

Reply 32

Hal.E.Lujah

19

Original post by py0alb

Possibly true up until about 20 years ago, when the middle classes all started aping working class sensibilities by talking like cockneys and/or mancs and going to football matches.

Being middle class nowadays is actually quite culturally liberating. You get to pick the bits of upper class and working class culture that you like and no-one bats an eyelid either way.

I think working class and upper class alternate between being in fashion depending upon which group it is that the middle class are all pretending to be - I wonder if this correlates at all with Labour/Tory election victories? An interesting thought. In the mid 90s everyone wanted to be Liam Gallagher and suddenly became obsessed with the premier league, and Labour won a landslide.

10 years later, and everyone is denigrating the working class as chavs and people are starting to wear blazers: being posh is seen as a good thing. A Tory election victory.

I would say that those people you've attached to the image of upper middle class people are class transitionists, who did indeed become the new vogue in the 80s when working class businessmen and sportsmen became upper class very quickly.

There was definitely a random burst in football, which rapidly progressed from a working class sport to a middle-upper class sport. The word 'Footy' for example, where did that come from?

This was because of the obscene amount of money involved in football. Suddenly people who worked in football, from working class origins, were richer than most upper class people. So of course, the middle class became interested in mimicking these people who had gone from either working class or middle class backgrounds to fantastically rich.

I liked what you said about the elections though. It's actually quite sad how many people vote Tory who actually gain nothing from their policies, but think they do because they would rather identify themselves as upper class than working class. The demonisation is definitely a constructed part of that.

Original post by zara55

One should also remember that the upper-class specifically engage in activities, adopt mannerisms and strike poses designed to distance themselves from the upper-middles and ensure that the UMCs cannot reach their lofty status.

Very true. The infamous dropping of the H springs to mind. From the time of Queen Victoria, the H has not been said in 'What' for example by members of the upper classes, but the middle classes clung to it into the early 1900s because it still had the stigma of being upper class. Find language on this so fascinating, it's like a dance.

Reply 33

UCLEmily

I hope OP realised that this is a crucial subject for all British people, and therefore likely to stir up quite a thread. :smile:

Reply 34

the bear

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah

Most Engelsist historians (myself included) would argue that all 'traits' or activities of the Middle Upper class micro culture are focused around becoming Upper Class.

These can include but are not limited to:

- Social events to achieve higher standing
- Leisure activities that display wealth
- Accents that subtly mimic the Upper Class accent
- Styles that are imitations of Upper Class ones.

Hope that's helpful to your discourse! :h:

Hey Girl want to touch my beard ? It's bigger than Karl's

Reply 35

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah

I would say that those people you've attached to the image of upper middle class people are class transitionists, who did indeed become the new vogue in the 80s when working class businessmen and sportsmen became upper class very quickly.

There was definitely a random burst in football, which rapidly progressed from a working class sport to a middle-upper class sport. The word 'Footy' for example, where did that come from?

This was because of the obscene amount of money involved in football. Suddenly people who worked in football, from working class origins, were richer than most upper class people. So of course, the middle class became interested in mimicking these people who had gone from either working class or middle class backgrounds to fantastically rich.

I liked what you said about the elections though. It's actually quite sad how many people vote Tory who actually gain nothing from their policies, but think they do because they would rather identify themselves as upper class than working class. The demonisation is definitely a constructed part of that.

Very true. The infamous dropping of the H springs to mind. From the time of Queen Victoria, the H has not been said in 'What' for example by members of the upper classes, but the middle classes clung to it into the early 1900s because it still had the stigma of being upper class. Find language on this so fascinating, it's like a dance.

Have you ever been in one of those arguments where a group of middle class kids all argue about how working class they are? They were very common as little as 5 years ago.

"Yes I know I went to a private school, but it was in Manchester darling so it doesn't count. And pater's pater once drove a van. I'm utterly working class".

Reply 36

Jimbo1234