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EU undemocratic?

This poll is closed

Is the EU undemocratic?

No 33%
Yes67%
Total votes: 21
I was just reading this thread and was surprised at the amount of people who think the EU is undemocratic.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2224350

The UK is the country where by far the most people believe the EU to be undemocratic*. Why is this?

* as far as I am aware, of course I don't know the members nearly well enough.
(edited 11 years ago)

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The problem with polls danny ( and referendums ) is the stark 'YES or NO' choice, hence its wording is crucial.
If there ever is a referendum on the EU in the UK I bet that a simple 'IN or OUT' is not the actual question.

My view of working Democracy is not seen in the UK or EU, US or anywhere else I know of.
Reply 2
Avatar for Morgsie
Morgsie
7
Yes there is a problem with Democracy.

Since Lisbon, Westminister has an increased role due to the Early Warning System. The UK electes 73 MEPs through Proportional Representation. The elected government goes to the Council's
Reply 3
Avatar for charlie142
charlie142
The EU uses CO-Decision between its bodies meaning the unelected parts such as the Commission must work with the Parliament which is elected on issues such as the budget. They all have powers which can inhibit the other so the EU is not so democratic as thought.
Reply 4
Avatar for Morgsie
Morgsie
7
Original post by charlie142
The EU uses CO-Decision between its bodies meaning the unelected parts such as the Commission must work with the Parliament which is elected on issues such as the budget. They all have powers which can inhibit the other so the EU is not so democratic as thought.


You forgot that member states are represented aswell, the Council of Ministers (formal: Council of the European Union).

There is the Ordinary Legislative Procedure which is where both the Council of Ministers and the Parliament decides legislation but the Commission initiates legislation.
Reply 5
Avatar for Rakas21
Rakas21
21
Rather than calling the EU undemocratic i think a more apt word to describe it is "nontransparent".

The majority of people don't know that council exists let alone that it gives the commission its orders and the commission in turn refuses to publish its budget publicly.
Reply 6
Avatar for SoNottingH
SoNottingH
Original post by Rakas21
Rather than calling the EU undemocratic i think a more apt word to describe it is "nontransparent".

The majority of people don't know that council exists let alone that it gives the commission its orders and the commission in turn refuses to publish its budget publicly.


Do you mean the EU budget? Of course that's published.
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/2013/2013_en.cfm
Reply 7
Avatar for Rakas21
Rakas21
21
Original post by SoNottingH
Do you mean the EU budget? Of course that's published.
http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/2013/2013_en.cfm


Which is the one that hasn't been signed off by auditors?
Reply 8
Avatar for SoNottingH
SoNottingH
Original post by Rakas21
Which is the one that hasn't been signed off by auditors?


That's not the same issue. The previous poster said it isn't published - that's false.

The failure to sign off is about a small percentage of errors, affecting particular items in a small part of the budget of less than 2% of the total.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/has_eu_budget_rejected_auditors_18_years-28593

The error level in the UK government budget is much higher - nearer 4%, by way of comparison.
Reply 9
Avatar for Rakas21
Rakas21
21
Original post by SoNottingH
That's not the same issue. The previous poster said it isn't published - that's false.

The failure to sign off is about a small percentage of errors, affecting particular items in a small part of the budget of less than 2% of the total.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/has_eu_budget_rejected_auditors_18_years-28593

The error level in the UK government budget is much higher - nearer 4%, by way of comparison.


Thanks.
The EU has very little direct democratic legitimacy as the parliament has very very little power. Elected leaders make alot of the decisions, but the project as a whole is pushed forward by the 'Elite' rather than the 'People'
I'm something of a Europhile, I'm not saying this out of the spirit of "DOWN WITH THE €U!!111", it's just kind of...fact, but it doesn't need to be permanently true
Reply 11
Avatar for Morgsie
Morgsie
7
The top posts in the EU are not elected
Reply 12
Avatar for SoNottingH
SoNottingH
Original post by Morgsie
The top posts in the EU are not elected


The Commissioners? They are appointed by the democratically elected governments of each member nation.

Some people say there should be a directly-elected President, elected Europe-wide, but that has been blocked by the anti-EU parties.
Reply 13
Avatar for SoNottingH
SoNottingH
Original post by Lacking Gravitas
The EU has very little direct democratic legitimacy as the parliament has very very little power. Elected leaders make alot of the decisions, but the project as a whole is pushed forward by the 'Elite' rather than the 'People'
I'm something of a Europhile, I'm not saying this out of the spirit of "DOWN WITH THE €U!!111", it's just kind of...fact, but it doesn't need to be permanently true


It isn't true any more that the EU Parliament has very little power. It now has quite a lot, more than people think, which is why loads of lobbyists now don't bother at all with national parliaments and concentrate on influencing MEPs.
Reply 14
Avatar for Morgsie
Morgsie
7
Original post by SoNottingH
The Commissioners? They are appointed by the democratically elected governments of each member nation.

Some people say there should be a directly-elected President, elected Europe-wide, but that has been blocked by the anti-EU parties.


President of the Commission and the President of the European Council. As a result of Parliament, Parties are choosing their Candidates for the President of the Commission.
Reply 15
Avatar for Rakas21
Rakas21
21
Original post by SoNottingH
It isn't true any more that the EU Parliament has very little power. It now has quite a lot, more than people think, which is why loads of lobbyists now don't bother at all with national parliaments and concentrate on influencing MEPs.


From everything I've heard its essentially a senate, it can amend and approve/reject legislation but it can not initiate its own.

Is this not the case?

Original post by SoNottingH
The Commissioners? They are appointed by the democratically elected governments of each member nation.

Some people say there should be a directly-elected President, elected Europe-wide, but that has been blocked by the anti-EU parties.


To be honest i'd rather turn Europe on its head in that the EP should have the power to initiate legislation with the Commission acting as the government of the winning party made up of elected MEP's and headed by an elected president.

The council would simply become an advisory council.
Original post by SoNottingH


The error level in the UK government budget is much higher - nearer 4%, by way of comparison.


If that is true then 4% of £683 billion is ~ £27 billion
http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/budget2012_complete.pdf

Where did you get that 4% from please ?
This is because the EU is undemocratic.
Reply 18
Avatar for danny111
danny111
OP
3
Original post by Friar Chris
This is because the EU is undemocratic.


The EU is undemocratic, because it is undemocratic is not really a sound logical answer. I was more interested in why people think it is undemocratic.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by danny111
I was just reading this thread and was surprised at the amount of people who think the EU is undemocratic.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2224350

The UK is the country where by far the most people believe the EU to be undemocratic*. Why is this?

* as far as I am aware, of course I don't know the members nearly well enough.


Well seeing as the one institute people directly elect to has no real power, and everything else is by appointment, it's not difficult.

People believe it's undemocratic because it is. Perhaps other Europeans care less for that sort of thing but people in the UK generally seem to prefer elected leaders.

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