Is the US political system more democratic than the UK political system?

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122025278

Speaking for myself, that's because I am interested in politics. And don't I singularly dog your posts, it's just that yours end up on our radar because they tend to be pretty uninformed.

Pretty uninformed!? Hahah I'm the amateur at this. Anyway my suspicions have been confirmed, you are most definitely a professional.

Reply 61

gladders

Believe what you want (I'm not, for the record). Doesn't change a bean about the discussions that have taken place in this thread.

Reply 62

gladders

Did you now. Again: what does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

Reply 63

122025278

Original post by gladders

Did you now. Again: what does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

You said you weren't an establishmentarian. I think I accused you weeks ago of being an establishment stooge on one of those monarchy threads, all makes sense now!

Reply 64

gladders

Original post by 122025278

You said you weren't an establishmentarian. I think I accused you weeks ago of being an establishment stooge on one of those monarchy threads, all makes sense now!

You're demonstrating the logical fallacy of appeal to motive, as well as ad hominem, and if you don't stop referring to my personal information I will report you to the Moderators.

Stick to the subject at hand. If you can't combat the substance of my argument and can only attack me, then admit that you've failed.

Reply 65

danny111

Original post by 122025278

Mitt Romney... am I missing something?

And George Bush, what did he do wrong exactly other than upsetting the liberal media and being portrayed as a dictator

Are you American? What is the liberal media?

Reply 66

122025278

Original post by gladders

gladders... own goal. I haven't referred to any of your personal information, at all.

Reply 67

gladders

Calling me an establishment stooge (however innacurate that is) is revealing personal information.

So, are you going to admit that you have nothing to say with regards to the actual subject of this thread?

Reply 68

122025278

Original post by gladders

It's only revealing personal information if you confirm it, I've called you that many, many times. Like I said, own goal. Call me a Premier League footballer all you want, I wouldn't be bothered because it isn't true.

I have plenty more to say in this thread but it appears the British system can do no wrong in your eyes.

Reply 69

gladders

Original post by 122025278

I have plenty more to say in this thread but it appears the British system can do no wrong in your eyes.

Third time: are you going to debate the material of what I have posted, or simply make ad hominem arguments?

Reply 70

122025278

Original post by gladders

Third time: are you going to debate the material of what I have posted, or simply make ad hominem arguments?

Here:

Reply 71

danny111

Original post by 122025278

I found you on Facebook...

And I found your mamma on facebook, tell her ill be round later.

Reply 72

Kylewalker346234

Something I've noticed

Watch a US Politician speak in congress

Watch a UK Politician speak in Parliament.

I always notice, that the US Politician never stutter or hesitate.

Still, regardless of debate, we are always better than the Ukraine :wink:

Reply 73

gladders

Original post by 122025278

Here:

Gosh, what a politically neutral image you have produced.

I refer to you my previous statement:

Even if the Lords were the most corrupt, venile body of criminals, the House of Commons remains supreme with the Parliament Act and can override all opposition if it is determined to do so. The US, however, uses elections for everything and in so doing obstructs the democratic will by making the democratic will impossible to determine.

I for one am fully in favour of reforming how the House of Lords' members are appointed to make it fully meritocratic and open.

Reply 74

321zero

Original post by ConnorB

41 seconds. The first time boxer. Classic.

Reply 75

gladders

Original post by ConnorB

Something I've noticed

Watch a US Politician speak in congress

Watch a UK Politician speak in Parliament.

An interesting difference between the two is that the US version of Hansard (the Congressional Record) permits Congressmen to add in absolutely tons of written material into the record that they never spoke in the Chamber. They are also permitted to read from extensive notes.

The UK Hansard, however, only writes verbatim what was said in the Chamber, and Members are not permitted to read from extensive notes. So American politicians may not hesitate because it is more of a script!

Reply 76

heyhey922

Original post by 122025278

Not Bush's fault

Republicans seemed happy to blame Obama when they thought it was going to happen in reverse in 2012

Reply 77

ThreadPoster

Original post by 122025278

gladders I'm disappointed in you. I used to think you were a sort of non-partisan figure who had no agenda, when in reality you are fiercely protective of the British establishment and it's traditions.

Have you ever looked at the Meiji constitution from Japan? Reads like your wet dream

Don't you just love it when people bring in irrelevant facts into the discussion? I mean what does the Meiji constitution in Japan have to do with anything?

Reply 78

radiopred

Having two political parties, most people don't like either. Very democratic

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 79

ed-

Original post by 122025278

•

The President is directly elected, the UK Prime Minister is not

They have compltely different roles. Our PM is a minister, not the head of state or leader of the country, although the media portray it that way.

•

Senators are elected for 6 years, Peers in the House or Lords are APPOINTED for LIFE

The HoL is much less powerful than the US Senate. The Commons can force legislation through the Lords. The Lords don't really do much other than provide an expert opinion on law.
The House of Representatives can't force legislation past the Senate. Both Houses have to come to an agreement before it goes through.
Also, the Senate has the power to approve or reject all of the President's appointments. They have the power to ratify treaties and they have the power to try all impeachments.
Considering all this power, 6 year terms aren't all that democratic.

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The judiciary in the US is more independent and far more powerful than the judiciary in the UK.

Their judiciary is far too political. If, say, the Democrats had a President in power and a majority in the houses of Congress, they could shape the courts into an entirely liberal / lefty institution.
I don't see how theirs is any more independent or powerful.

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You get three votes at the Federal level, President, Senate and House, in the UK you get one

You get to elect MPs, Councilors, MEPs.
They get so many votes because their country is a federal system. Seeing as ours isn't, and is very small, we get plenty.

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In the UK Parliament is sovereign, in the US the PEOPLE are sovereign. Parliament can change anything in the UK constitution.

The people in the US are only sovereign at election time, as is the case with the UK. They don't have the same concept of sovereignty as Parliamentary systems as all three of their branches of government are completely independent.
Neither is any more, or less democratic. Just different styles of government.

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There are midterm elections every 2 years to hold the government to account, we get one every 5 years.

Every 2 years, yes. But they don't elect the entirety of each House every 2 years. And they elect the President every 4.
Again, different ways of doing things.
In a Parliamentary system, if elections were any closer together the government would have no time to do anything.

Of course the US system isn't perfect. It just seems in this country we have so many anomalies and a one size fits all system. The US was designed as a democracy, the UK system sort of dragged its heels and evolved and still has a lot of work left to do.

The US's system was created almost immediately after they'd got rid of British tyranny, so they did everything they could to prevent anymore tyranny. Some of it they did well, other things they didn't do to well. I'd say the way our system has organically developed is much better.