Is it any more bigoted to hate on feminists than homosexuals?

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It is not bigoted to hate somebody elses opinions or because of their opinions. In fact this is a pretty good reason to hate somebody or a group.

It is to bigoted to hate somebody because of something that is out of their control.

Reply 21

bestofyou

Original post by Classical Liberal

So the killings and violence in Northern Ireland, in Palestine, in Nigeria, in Bosnia, in Syria etc over the last few decades are all justified then? I mean, saying that religion (something people can change) and political stances (opinions) are at the heart of these conflicts by your views this was all ok? I mean maybe not going as far as killing. But to hate each other to a point that a normal society is impossible is fine?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 22

jreid1994

Original post by ArtGoblin

You can still be a bigot by discriminating against groups that can change their beliefs. It is bigoted to attack gypsies because of their lifestyle even though they could get a house and a regular job. It is bigoted to call all Muslims terrorists even though they could change their religion. And it would be bigoted to condemn gay people for their sexual choices even if they could change their sexuality. Forcing people to change their beliefs and behaviour to fit your ideal of what is right is bigoted.

By your logic, it's bigoted to hate on Nazis, communists and chauvinism, and misandry, sexuality don't change you can't just randomly decide to be straight. I dislike feminism, but I do not dislike homosexuals and transgender, as they can't just wake up and change their mind.

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Reply 23

kelly.zheroes

Original post by bestofyou

Don't be silly. There are four main sexual orientations (more if you count trans-gender, obviously), and feminism addresses issues affecting people who belong to two of them. Likewise gay rights covers two of the four, just a different pair. Your racist analogy is completely off the mark :rolleyes:

Reply 24

bestofyou

Original post by kelly.zheroes

Feminism is not a sexuality. It doesn't matter what it covers. Feline covers every type of cat in the world, doesn't mean a tabby cat is a tiger though does it?

As I said, feminism is a social concept that men and women should be equal or the kind that makes women better. Where you are getting sexual orientation from that I do not know. In fact where you are getting anything other than a personal choice from this I do not know.

It seems you are saying that someone is born a feminist. So this means that I cannot go and study a bunch of books and become sympathetic to their cause and become a feminist...damn, I can't cause I wasn't born wanting women to be equal/better than men...seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Reply 25

ArtGoblin

Original post by jreid1994

It's OK to hate someone's beliefs but that's not what we're discussing here. The problem is generalising about a broad group of people by applying some extreme views and certain character traits to them which have nothing to do with their arguments. The opposition to feminism is then built on these constructed beliefs which is a way of avoiding listening to what they actually believe in. Using communists isn't a good way to support your argument as they were subject to bigotry in the US in the 40s and 50s - being banned from certain jobs and deporting people who weren't US-born.

Reply 26

jreid1994

Original post by ArtGoblin

Actually it's a perfect example as your not born a communist last time I checked, and how is feminism anything other than an ideology? Last time I checked your all socialists anyway, why would I support a group who don't support my economic interests. As a group that basically says "women are 'oppressed' so let's hate men" why on earth would I support that? That's like me saying that if I was an american and I didn't vote for Obama I'm a racist! Or if I didn't vote for Palin I'm sexist!

To compare homosexuals to an ideology is such a low played card, it shouldn't even be on the table! Feminism did not help the LBGT community, they helped themselves!

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(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 27

ArtGoblin

Original post by jreid1994

That's exactly the point - communists were discriminated against because of their beliefs, not because they were born communists. But honestly there is just too much stupid in this post to bother trying to explain it. If I do make the effort to refute your points you'll only reply with something that doesn't even match what I've written.

Edit: I do find it amusing that you won't support socialism on the basis that it doesn't support your economic interest, yet you're constantly accusing feminists of being evil because they only represent their own interests.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 28

kelly.zheroes

Original post by bestofyou

As I said, feminism is a social concept that men and women should be equal or the kind that makes women better. Where you are getting sexual orientation from that I do not know. In fact where you are getting anything other than a personal choice from this I do not know.

Straight male, straight female, gay male, gay female. Four sexual orientations, based on gender and whether you are straight or gay.
By the way, I'm not sure where your definition of feminism comes from - not one I've heard before, or seen in any dictionary. It's definitely not about being 'better'.

It seems you are saying that someone is born a feminist.

No, you are saying that. You quoted me earlier, so you know I said something different.

To clarify... someone can be born gay, and their lives would be particularly affected by gay rights issues. Someone can be born female and their lives would be particularly affected by feminist issues.

So this means that I cannot go and study a bunch of books and become sympathetic to their cause and become a feminist...damn, I can't cause I wasn't born wanting women to be equal/better than men...seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Don't do it then - you invented this point, not me. Personally, I would support righteous causes across all four segments - that would be the egalitarian thing to do.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 29

Prandtl

In answer to the main question, yeah it is bigotry to say such a thing as it isn't a true statement. Don't know if I'd say it's more or less bigoted but to my mind that statement would be bigotry. You can disagree with that statement, believing it to be bigoted, and still have disdain for the feminist movement and certain members within it though.

Reply 30

jreid1994

Original post by ArtGoblin

But is it the same now, can a socialist not work in a management position? And how exactly is my post stupid? It's like me saying I don't like Nazism, do you think it's wrong to dislike Nazism too because of their beliefs? How is it wrong to dislike socialism? I'm not saying that because your a feminist you shouldn't be able to work or eat, I'm saying that because your a feminist I'm not going to like your beliefs, and beliefs are personal, but they aren't like sexuality, which are unlike beliefs, not changeable.

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Reply 31

jreid1994

Original post by ArtGoblin

Lol at the second part your a male rape(well not under law, but it's rape really) apologist. And belive that male circumcision is acceptable, why on earth would anyone on this planet like your social views?

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Reply 32

miser

It is definitely bigoted, but whether it is more bigoted is harder to say. My opinion is that it is - whilst being intolerant of homosexuality is simply being intolerant, being intolerant against feminism is being intolerant of tolerance itself.

Reply 33

Dragonfly07

I told my boyfriend last night about TSR's whole feminism bashing thing and I asked him what he thought.

He said that he doesn't believe that anyone genuinely feels threatened by the feminist movement or what they're trying to achieve, but he thinks that they're annoyed at feminists who say stupid **** like the word "mankind" is sexist and should change.

... what I see on TSR is different (men genuinely feel like they're discriminated against in the world). But if any men agree that the above paragraph is the real issue then let me know because that would make me feel a lot better about feminist bashing and I would even join you :dontknow:

Reply 34

Prandtl

I don't know really... As someone whose knowledge of feminism exists only over the internet, I find myself ending up critiquing the movement as a whole. Although I hold the views of a feminist (following it's definition), it isn't a movement I'd want to be associated with/a label I would like to have placed upon me :dontknow:

Reply 35

jreid1994

Original post by miser

What? So, not believing in female supremacy is bigoted? I'm not going to like women that hate men the same way as I don't like racism or homophobia, calling that bigotry isn't wrong, it's plainly and simply true, helping women is not an issue for me, they don't deserve to get raped or sexually harassed, but neither do men!
Why should only one apply and not the other? Feminists only care about heterosexual women and lesbians they don't care about gays or hetro men or the transgender community, so why should I even pretend to like them? It's almost like me saying that I care about you as long as your born with a vagina and breasts, and no it's not right last time I checked feminists wanted to ban urinals based on sexism, do you hear men say you must use a urinal because it's sexist against menl? That's just ridiculous, I'm not going to support a group of misandric people who have an extreme hate for me because of my testicles.

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Reply 36

miser

Original post by jreid1994

What? So, not believing in female supremacy is bigoted?

This is a straw-man; feminism is not the same as female supremacy.

Reply 37

jreid1994

Original post by miser

This is a straw-man; feminism is not the same as female supremacy.

So national castration day and banning urinals is something that I should now support? Sure.

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Reply 38

bestofyou

Original post by kelly.zheroes

Straight male, straight female, gay male, gay female. Four sexual orientations, based on gender and whether you are straight or gay. Sorry if this is confusing. I'm not sure where your definition of feminism comes from - not one I've heard before, or seen in any dictionary.

Well done Kelly, you just proved you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are likely 14yrs old.

'Straight males is not a sexual orientation, it is a bloody type of person. Straight and Gay are the only two types of sexual orientations you mentioned, throwing in extra words doesn't make them an orientation. I could easily say there are 6 kinds of sexualities, Straight black man, Gay lion, Gay robot, Straight white women, Straight cat women and Gay Doctor.

"the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

I am failing to see anything even closely related to sexual orientation here. You have no idea.

No, you are saying that - you quoted me, so you know I said something different.

Alright! Oh please, stop that! Stop your singing! Stop your singing this instant, young man! I will not have this in my studio! That's just a terrible, terrible, terrible... terrible "That's Amore". You have failed conclusively! It's over! And there is nothing that you can do, here in this room... that can turn that around. Nothing you can do that can make up for what you just did to "That's Amore." How the **** is this the case here? You have completely rendered any respectability you have in this argument into nothing.

For a start you quoted me if you bother to go back and check, I therefore take everything you now say with an entire barrel of salt, in fact I don't take it with any salt, I don't even touch what you say. As i said, all respect for your argument went out the window with this post.

Second point, which again shows you have no idea what you are talking about, if you go back to the initial point that I made you will find it was stating how nobody is born a feminist, then you countered that by saying all females are born feminists. Now you have taken a complete U-turn and said the opposite? Make up your mind daughter! Spreading manure about what I said doesn't work on the internet as there is a record of all the previous comments.

To clarify... someone can be born gay, and their lives would be particularly affected by gay rights issues. Someone can be born female and their lives would be particularly affected by feminist issues.

No...just no.

Being gay doesn't automatically mean you are going to be interested in gay rights, it is a choice. Being gay isn't, being involved in gay rights is...this really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Someone born female is even less likely to be involved in female rights for many reasons, one being that females are not a minority and in this modern world face much less discrimination. Most of my female friends or the young females in my family couldn't tell me the first thing about feminist issues. It doesn't bloody well matter if they are affected by them or not. Being affected by something doesn't mean that you are going to school yourself in these issues.

Right now I am currently being affected by issues in London made by a conservative government, doesn't make me a tory though does it. Nor does it make me interested in British politics in any way.

Women today for the large part have equal rights to men. The things they do not have equal rights in are for a reason. For example sports prize money, the men get more because they generate a higher revenue through TV viewing or whatever. Yet feminists (the bad kind) kick up a fuss about this every year.

I'm not saying that discrimination is gone. However it isn't just females. Even in Northern Ireland discrimination against Catholics still exists, however it isn't as big an issue since it is a minority that discriminate now as opposed to a majority like it used to be.

Don't do it then - you invented this point, not me. Personally, I would support righteous causes across all four segments - that would be the egalitarian thing to do.

Only the four segments? What about Gay Lions? Don't they deserve equal rights? Everytime I am on safari I see Gay Lions getting raped, beat up, made to eat with the lion cubs, spat on etc. I find it disgusting that you don't support gay lion rights. I suppose that the rights of straight female komodo dragons are also not one of your 'four elite segments' then?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 39

marcusfox

Whether it's a minority or not, it's a very vocal one. Most people who are in favour of true equality don't actually go around loudly proclaiming to anyone who will listen that they are feminists, as opposed to those who are for women's advantage over men - indeed, the word 'feminism' is a misnomer if it isn't for women's advantage, but equality. Perhaps equalism? I dunno :confused:

Unfortunately, as you have alluded to, "feminism" is a very broad term. While your particular branch seems relatively sensible, there are plenty of other people and groups who self define as feminists who range from being simply ignorant to outright sexist themselves.

Women do themselves no favours when they claim that it's only the female sex that is discriminated against, and close their eyes and ears to blatant sexism and discrimination when it's in their favour.

Just last night I was debating with a supposed feminist who likes to pretend that DV and spousal abuse against men by their partners does not exist.