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Reply 60
Original post by Free.Help
Why are so many people aganist immigrants/refugees/asylum seekers in this country?: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2288190/Why-SHOULD-crackdown-migrants-mean-crackdown-Britain.html

They are obviously vital for our economy and usually here to better themselves through work no one in this country usually wants (factory, kebab shop) or they are fleeing war torn countries. I personally know many immigrants and most suffer mental and physical health problems due to trauma, and most of their children/family have been brutially killed.

Again, in many newspapers they seem to imply we have the most immigrants coming here, but the actual figure is less than 2% of refugees arriving here (most go to afgan/pakistan/jorden etc.). And other western countries such as Canada/Austr. take more than 10 times the number that EUROPE takes.

Of course, they are a select few who abuse the 'relaxed' system of this country but why do so many people seem to think this is the majority?

P.S. I know the Daily Mail are idiots, but thought I'd use their acticle becuase so many people seem to commont on this website.


I think it's more a case of people feeling uncomfortable with the sheer scale of the immigration. Also, I think it's the fear of traditional culture and customs being eroded. I don't think many people just hate immigrants per se.
Reply 61
Original post by McMurdo
I think it's more a case of people feeling uncomfortable with the sheer scale of the immigration. Also, I think it's the fear of traditional culture and customs being eroded. I don't think many people just hate immigrants per se.


Fair enough. But the number is really low to be honest, kind of embarrassingly low considering what other countries, both eastern and western take each year :s-smilie:.

I suppose though I do see in newspapers the scare mongering about immigrantion so I can't really blame people for believing it.

But wasn't this whole eroson of the so called British culture come around before this whole immigrantion thing? I'm not too sure, but I think becuase British people are changing, some people see it as letting out culture go i.e. the good ol' days?

I know when I lived in an Eastern country, while I obeyed their laws and culture, I still kept my own British culture through speaking English, drinking, listening to British/western music etc. I think everyone does, espcially when you have no choice and can never return, would feel homesick and want to retain some of thier orginal culture.
Reply 62
Original post by Free.Help
Fair enough. But the number is really low to be honest, kind of embarrassingly low considering what other countries, both eastern and western take each year :s-smilie:.

I suppose though I do see in newspapers the scare mongering about immigrantion so I can't really blame people for believing it.

But wasn't this whole eroson of the so called British culture come around before this whole immigrantion thing? I'm not too sure, but I think becuase British people are changing, some people see it as letting out culture go i.e. the good ol' days?

I know when I lived in an Eastern country, while I obeyed their laws and culture, I still kept my own British culture through speaking English, drinking, listening to British/western music etc. I think everyone does, espcially when you have no choice and can never return, would feel homesick and want to retain some of thier orginal culture.


I don't know why you think it's low here... Granted - there are other places that take in more. However, it's commonly recognised that this country cannot sustain such a figure. There's a reason why every party addresses the scale of immigration as an issue and promises to try and control/cut it. I think it's the typical, protective reaction to the idea of new people coming to your home to take what is yours, if you know what I mean. Not all see it that way, but some will see it as an intrusion and unwelcome stay.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 63
Original post by MancBoy
I don't hate immigrants but I hate those who come here to basically rob, steal, scavenge through our bins, pickpocket, rape, claim benefits etc. which sadly is not a 'small minority'.


are you sure about that?
Reply 64
Mass immigration is about cheap labour and low wages. It's capatalism on steroids. It benefits the rich only.

it has no positive benefits. It's is about exploiting the poor -- the working classes of Britain have been decimated by this mass immigration policy as they are forced to compete like dogs for work for less wages.

british peope are comically naive on this issue.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 65
Original post by rolos12345
Mass immigration is about cheap labour. It's capatalism on steroids.

it has no positive benefits.


I disagree.

*It allows corporations to become more profitable.
*It allows them to select employees from a wider pool such that productivity per hour can be optimized.
*It allows more affordable prices for goods and services to be passed onto customers.
*It allows smaller businesses to have an increasingly global reach.
Reply 66
Original post by McMurdo
I don't know why you think it's low here... Granted - there are other places that take in more. However, it's commonly recognised that this country cannot sustain such a figure. There's a reason why every party addresses the scale of immigration as an issue and promises to try and control/cut it. I think it's the typical, protective reaction to the idea of new people coming to your home to take what is yours, if you know what I mean. Not all see it that way, but some will see it as an intrusion and unwelcome stay.


Immigration is a very wide term. I think most people don't seem to have such a big problem with economic migrants, or those here to study. Isn't is usually the refugees and asylum seekers who people apose to?

I know when it comes to asylum seekers about 85% of cases are refused in the UK, and once they are refused they are not allowed anything from this country-no housing, benefits, food, nothing.

And granted England is a small country. However, I think I listed the offical statisitcs somewhere on this thread, but last year we had the second lowest asylum claims in the last 20 years. 80% of refugees go to developing countries. USA, France, Germany, Italy and Sweden all take much more than us. We are literaly in the bottom of the leauge tables in accepting refugees/asylum seekers. http://www.unhcr.org/4e9beaa19.html

I'm not saying they are not making any difference to our economy, but what I am saying is if you look at any figures you will see, even with the small size of our country, we are one of the countries who take the fewest refugees in the world.
Reply 67
Original post by effofex
I disagree.

*It allows corporations to become more profitable.
*It allows them to select employees from a wider pool such that productivity per hour can be optimized.
*It allows more affordable prices for goods and services to be passed onto customers.
*It allows smaller businesses to have an increasingly global reach.



Sure, transnational capatlist corporations love cheap labour -- outsourcing and mass immigration give them their supplies. The rich get richer and the poor get exploited with such policies.

As for cheap goods, Henry Ford had it right when he paid his employees enough to buy the products they made -- the need for cheap goods is a symptom of a diseased and failing economy. Better to have higher employment and higher wages and slightly more expensive goods.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 68
news papers like the daily mail and daily star are written to appeal to those with similar views and since news papers are a declining platform for information they need to print sensational stories and opinions the more controversial and bigoted the more people from both sides of the argument are likely to buy their papers with a lack of principle who just go in where ever direction the wind blows. A good example of this is a series articles i read in the daily mail shortly after mo farad won gold during the Olympics which called most athlete's 'plastic brits' which references those not born in the uk but later acquiring citizenship as fake brits essentially even though they used their unrivaled talents to represent their country and win gold at their home games. Mo Farah and Bradley Wiggins being some of the athletes. so even if you make a huge contribution to your country whether that be a becoming a scientist, doctor,cleaner, teacher, lawyer or even a bloody Olympic athlete these arse holes will find a bone to pick with you purely based on your ethnic background so and nothing else because it sells papers.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/how-mo-farah-rejected-plastic-brit-charge
Reply 69
Original post by rolos12345
Sure, transnational capatlist corporations love cheap labour -- outsourcing and mass immigration give them their supplies. The rich get richer and the poor get exploited with such policies.

As for cheap goods, Henry Ford had it right when he paid his employees enough to buy the products they made -- the need for cheap goods is a symptom of a diseased and failing economy. Better to have higher employment and higher wages and slightly more expensive goods.


Actually whole swathes of the planet have become richer as a result of capitalist corporations providing new sources of employment. Naturally those people who live in countries with high living costs but who do not have any technological advantage/capability better than their competitors in nations with lower living costs are outcompeted. So there is more equalization of global living standards and spending power based on the fact that it is harder for certain countries to maintain a technological/productivity-based advantage.

The activities of multinational corporations have actually made products and services cheaper in real terms for many people. Indeed, despite what their opinions on global migration are, most people have tacitly given their approval to it through consumption of goods and services that are produced by foreigners.

Naturally under such a system the people who can benefit most are those who are most internationally competitive and globally mobile - i.e. immigrants.
Reply 70
Original post by Mourinho<3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

I'm not going to talk about crime, housing, healthcare, benefits etc as I don't know enough about the situation tbh. It may well be the case immigrants ON THE WHOLE more reliant on the state.

However, immigrants to take jobs but are they the ones that people neccessairly go for? I mean yes this is a student forum so people are more inclined to say no but I see more immigrants on tills, cleaners etc-not exactly taking too many of the high income, most sought after jobs.
As for if they have children if they work hard and get in a position to fill a high paying job then well good for you-they aren't from a financial view detrimental to society (above examples).




I moved here with my parents 5 years ago because my dad was asked to fill in a job position that they just couldn't find anyone qualified enough for - yes it was a quite well paying position but the fact is they had to bring in someone from another country to fill it in just shows something. Also my mum started by working in a charity shop to improve her language (which is what many immigrants do), then worked at a pub as a cleaner (had to be at her job for 5am, absolute minimum wages) and then started working in a care home (which is actually currently struggling to find employees due to the demeaning nature of the work). My dad is now running his own business and my mum's a senior carer. They worked their ****ing asses off to get where they are now. There seems to be a misconception that jobs are handed over to immigrants on a silver plate when in reality they have to work hard.
Yes I am quite a bit more ambitious and currently pursuing a law degree but I believe I'm just as entitled to then get a high paying job as my english counterparts as I too have been working hard.
As regards to health care - I'm not really sure how to whole tax/NHS thing/benefits system works exactly but you know we pay taxes and don't claim any benefits.
Obviously there are people in our community that abuse the benefit system but they are looked down upon by other immigrants as it gives us a bad name.
Reply 71
Original post by Mourinho<3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

I'm not going to talk about crime, housing, healthcare, benefits etc as I don't know enough about the situation tbh. It may well be the case immigrants ON THE WHOLE more reliant on the state.

However, immigrants to take jobs but are they the ones that people neccessairly go for? I mean yes this is a student forum so people are more inclined to say no but I see more immigrants on tills, cleaners etc-not exactly taking too many of the high income, most sought after jobs.
As for if they have children if they work hard and get in a position to fill a high paying job then well good for you-they aren't from a financial view detrimental to society (above examples).





Have a look at the highest-paid positions in finance and engineering and you will find alot of migrant men.
I found most the posts in this thread as very far reaching and generalizing. You cant just clump all immigrants together in one group and say "they are to blame" because that's not how it works. Sure a lot of immigrates take jobs that British people don't want to do, because they feel they are "too good" for the jobs, furthermore, the majority of people who I know on benefits are all British, who never worked a day in their lives and took the easy way out.

People I know from the rest of Europe and other countries have all come here gotten jobs and worked their way up.
Original post by effofex
Have a look at the highest-paid positions in finance and engineering and you will find alot of migrant men.


Have a look at many low-paid positions and you will see migrant men also. They guy at club toilets selling stuff?

I don't think I said migrants didn't get top jobs, just that migrants often get the poorer jobs that others in that country don't particuarly want.

At least thats what I was trying to say, if I'm wrong I apologise. I was just saying that the argument "immigrants took our jobs" is wrong simply.
Original post by dartanoir
They worked their ****ing asses off to get where they are now. There seems to be a misconception that jobs are handed over to immigrants on a silver plate when in reality they have to work hard.

My mum has three jobs and goes to uni at the same time, dad also works hard-I'm not saying immigrants get given jobs they don't deserve since I know they put so much effort in and deserve the salaries they get.
Yes I am quite a bit more ambitious and currently pursuing a law degree but I believe I'm just as entitled to then get a high paying job as my english counterparts as I too have been working hard.
I didn't say you weren't. Obviously you are, as am I and anyone else for that matter. Whether people have wealthy parents or not, whatever race, people should be given an oppurtunity to have a succesful career (idealistic but should be strived for IMO).
As regards to health care - I'm not really sure how to whole tax/NHS thing/benefits system works exactly but you know we pay taxes and don't claim any benefits.
Of course.
Obviously there are people in our community that abuse the benefit system but they are looked down upon by other immigrants as it gives us a bad name.

Not sure if you were disagreeing with me or not, or just making a point. What I was saying was that people who feel immigrants are taking jobs are exaggerating the problem-the economy has fair bigger problems.
Some groups e.g. Muslims have come in for stick for being more of a burden on welfare-of course they are lookd down on. I look down on people giving immigrants a bad name.
Reply 75
Original post by rolos12345
Mass immigration is about cheap labour and low wages. It's capatalism on steroids. It benefits the rich only.

it has no positive benefits. It's is about exploiting the poor -- the working classes of Britain have been decimated by this mass immigration policy as they are forced to compete like dogs for work for less wages.

british peope are comically naive on this issue.


Well depending on why they are here, it benefits the immigrants also.

But shouldn't people be angry with the company's who expolit immigrants, rather than blame the victums? I don't get why people blame those who get treated unfairly, while it's the company who is breaking the law and laughing all the way to the bank :confused:
Reply 76
Original post by Mourinho<3
Not sure if you were disagreeing with me or not, or just making a point. What I was saying was that people who feel immigrants are taking jobs are exaggerating the problem-the economy has fair bigger problems.
Some groups e.g. Muslims have come in for stick for being more of a burden on welfare-of course they are lookd down on. I look down on people giving immigrants a bad name.

Oh no I was agreeing with you and then just making a point :smile:
Reply 77
Original post by Mourinho<3
Not sure if you were disagreeing with me or not, or just making a point. What I was saying was that people who feel immigrants are taking jobs are exaggerating the problem-the economy has fair bigger problems.
Some groups e.g. Muslims have come in for stick for being more of a burden on welfare-of course they are lookd down on. I look down on people giving immigrants a bad name.


Excatly my point. Immigration is such a tiny 'problem', and we have much bigger issues to deal with first. People's ignorance on this issue is strong...But I guess it's easier to blame those who don't have a voice and can't defend themselves, then blame the real villians.
Reply 78
Original post by jama mj
news papers like the daily mail and daily star are written to appeal to those with similar views and since news papers are a declining platform for information they need to print sensational stories and opinions the more controversial and bigoted the more people from both sides of the argument are likely to buy their papers with a lack of principle who just go in where ever direction the wind blows. A good example of this is a series articles i read in the daily mail shortly after mo farad won gold during the Olympics which called most athlete's 'plastic brits' which references those not born in the uk but later acquiring citizenship as fake brits essentially even though they used their unrivaled talents to represent their country and win gold at their home games. Mo Farah and Bradley Wiggins being some of the athletes. so even if you make a huge contribution to your country whether that be a becoming a scientist, doctor,cleaner, teacher, lawyer or even a bloody Olympic athlete these arse holes will find a bone to pick with you purely based on your ethnic background so and nothing else because it sells papers.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/how-mo-farah-rejected-plastic-brit-charge


Agreed. Admittedly I read the daily mail, no for the news but usually the gossip bit. I do look at the headlines online though, and laugh out loud at some of the blantent racist, ignorant and elitist bull they print. I used to think very few people where stupid enough to believe this, and it's only a small minority who would read such a thing.

I'm not so sure anymore, everytime I see a story about 'bogus asylum seekers' or some other crap, there's 1000's of commonts, and the top ones are always something racist, which has 2000 likes.

There was a story a few days ago in the Daily Mail about a baby being painted in chocolate and an 'afro' hair-do to mock an African footballer. One comment said people who complained are stupid, and it was a funny joke and not at all racist. It had 2000 likes :eek:

I know many people wouldn't agree with this, but too many people do...
Reply 79
Original post by effofex
Actually whole swathes of the planet have become richer as a result of capitalist corporations providing new sources of employment. Naturally those people who live in countries with high living costs but who do not have any technological advantage/capability better than their competitors in nations with lower living costs are outcompeted. So there is more equalization of global living standards and spending power based on the fact that it is harder for certain countries to maintain a technological/productivity-based advantage.

The activities of multinational corporations have actually made products and services cheaper in real terms for many people. Indeed, despite what their opinions on global migration are, most people have tacitly given their approval to it through consumption of goods and services that are produced by foreigners.

Naturally under such a system the people who can benefit most are those who are most internationally competitive and globally mobile - i.e. immigrants.



if transnational corporations ship the manufacturing base into extremely poor nations then living standards are going to rise in those nations -- it still does not change the fact that manufacturing was outsourced for quick profit motive and exploitation of cheap labour. or that the newly de-industrialised nations become poorer and less in need of mass immigration.

britain for example has lost 4 million manufacturing jobs in the past 30 years. in america its even worse. since 2001 they have lost 32% of all its manufacturing jobs.

http://prospect.org/article/plight-american-manufacturing

the combination of outsourcing and mass immigration has absolutely decimated the wages and job prospects of the poor and working classes in these countries -- and its only happening because the corporations want cheap labour. they don't give a crap about living standards.

mass immigration is just not needed. it is a disaster for britain. its a disaster for the poor and working classes -- but even the middle classes are suffering. because of the saturated job market every graduate job has over 50 applicants.


china seems to be getting on very well without mass immigration. imagine if china opened up its borders? how would its own chinese people ever become richer if all they were doing was competing with the immigrants for jobs and resources.

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