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Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

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As do many of us. Two thirds at last count. The word you're looking for is we 'synergise each other.' And lets not forget the Welsh and Northern Irish.

Alex Salmond forgets both of them as well.

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Reply 1321

Midlander

Original post by MatureStudent36

It was written in the 60s. I wouldn't take the lyrics too seriously.

But it's a great tune :smile:

Should've been in Gaelic. You could then have snuck in Anglophobic lyrics without anyone noticing, just like the Welsh.

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Reply 1322

Maths Tutor

Original post by MatureStudent36

Not really. It didn't demolish anything?

So one source from the SNP says one thing. Multiple sources including Scottish Government data says exactly the opposite.

I bet you still deny that leaked SNP memo saying that there would be cuts in spending, increases in taxes against what they say in public which is exactly the opposite.

I try not to listen to anybody who has an agenda. I like my information from the media and also like to research the raw data myself.

You WERE AFRAID to quote the ONE SOURCE which can demolish the SPIN of your "multiple sources" ALL OF WHOM happen to be ANTI-INDEPENDENCE.

The "raw data" suggested that anti-ENGLISH attacks had DECLINED. Your "multiple sources" didn't present that "raw data" did they?

Reply 1323

Midlander

Original post by Maths Tutor

What is your obsession with upper CASE?

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Reply 1324

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

You haven't read all the comments from page 1 then.

The anti-Independence Axis is the 'Bitter Together' campaign by Labour-Tory-LibDem politicians. I am not talking about the electorate.

That can be answered by a riddle: What % of the electorate who didn't vote, voted Labour, voted Tory or voted Lib-Dem at the last Scottish election will vote YES for INDEPENDENCE?

Let me also set you a riddle:

Before the last Scottish election in 2011, it was UNANIMOUSLY predicted by pollsters and the media that Labour would win, yet the SNP won with 47% of the votes cast.

So how sure can you be that support for Independence is only 30%?

This http://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Images/Scotland/KeyTrends/Scotland_SPOMKT_IndyTrend_Feb13_lrg.jpg

In case you don't know, at the last referendum in 1979, Scotland voted YES but were cheated of independence by the totally undemocratic decision that those who hadn't voted were considered to have voted no!

How were we cheated in that referendum? I think it's quite a astute move to say that if we wanted it so badly then 40% of the population should have got off their arse to vote for it. I'm slightly annoyed that with the high degree of voter apathy we have at the moment that something similar isn't brought in this time round.

Next you'll be telling me how Westminster suppressed the McCrone report from us. But just have a watch. (Apologies for the wording at the start. I couldn't be bothered finding the original.)

Reply 1325

Maths Tutor

Original post by Midlander

Because despite the differences we have accomplished a great deal as partners in the union. We fought together to defeat Napoleon, the Kaiser, and Hitler under one flag. We compete together at the Olympics and in 2012 did an enormous amount for British sport.

It angers me that people overlook this for things which happened 700 years ago.

Well you too are looking at events of the past.

Scotland hates being part of the UK team at the Olympics.

You just want a marriage of convenience for outer glory.

Reply 1326

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

Well you too are looking at events of the past.

Scotland hates being part of the UK team at the Olympics.

You just want a marriage of convenience for outer glory.

I'll look at past events to put them into context. Seeing as Nationalists keep on harping on about how we've been victimised. I'm not going back three hundred plus years.

Does it? Chris Hoy and Andy Murray seemed to be delighted as did most of the Scolympians and most of the viewers of BBC Scotland from what I saw. I think you're mistaking you're views with the views of the majority.

I have no idea what the outer glory thing is you're going on about.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 1327

Midlander

Original post by Maths Tutor

Well you too are looking at events of the past.

Scotland hates being part of the UK team at the Olympics.

You just want a marriage of convenience for outer glory.

If Scotland hated it they would have left the team long ago. You've lost the plot.

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Reply 1328

Midlander

Original post by Midlander

If Scotland hated it they would have left the team long ago. You've lost the plot. The Olympics was Salmond's worst nightmare.

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Reply 1329

MatureStudent36

Original post by Midlander

If Scotland hated it they would have left the team long ago. You've lost the plot.

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I do believe you're right.

You see, this is the modern face of nationalism. Warm and fuzzy on the outside. Something more worrying on the inside.

I would however say that you need to stop worrying Midlander. I promise you, most of what you're experiencing is just banter.

I wonder if Maths Tutor is looking at that graph? I see two spikes. The last one ties in with the economic downturn post 2008, but drops after Salmond got caught out with his European comment.

The other significant Spike is from 1995 for a few years. The only thing I can see is that is corresponds with when Braveheart came out in 1995.

I remember t well. Every Cinema seems to have an SNP activist in the foyer, and even I became more nationalistic at the time, but I was an easily influenced 16 year old.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 1330

L i b

Original post by Maths Tutor

If after 300 years of union, the English believe that "Anglophobia is rife in Scotland" and the Scots hate "typical English arrogance", then surely it is time to end the union?

How could you possibly argue for the union while believing "Anglophobia is rife in Scotland"?

Yeah, pandering to racist bigots generally works spectacularly.

Original post by Maths Tutor

The anti-Independence Axis is the 'Bitter Together' campaign by Labour-Tory-LibDem politicians. I am not talking about the electorate.

Grow up.

Before the last Scottish election in 2011, it was UNANIMOUSLY predicted by pollsters and the media that Labour would win, yet the SNP won with 47% of the votes cast.

So how sure can you be that support for Independence is only 30%?

Except of course, that's the complete opposite of what happened. Every reputable poll held near the election found the SNP ahead. YouGov in May on 42%, TNS on 45%, Yougov in April on 45%. In fact, the latest poll with Labour ahead in both constituency and regional votes was a TNS poll on March 27th. Back then, Labour probably were ahead.

In case you don't know, at the last referendum in 1979, Scotland voted YES but were cheated of independence by the totally undemocratic decision that those who hadn't voted were considered to have voted no!

No they weren't, there weren't considered to have voted at all. All that was required was 40% of the electorate voting yes.

That was undemocratic in the same way as having a second chamber is undemocratic, or having parliamentary democracy is undemocratic, or having entrenched human rights is undemocratic. Believe it or not, pure democracy is far from the only thing at stake here and the 1979 amendment was, firstly, reasonable and, secondly, required to get the Bill through the House of Commons in the first place.

At least did some good in the end: because of it, the SNP's votes caused the Labour government to collapse and Margaret Thatcher to sweep into office. Cheers for that one.

Reply 1331

L i b

Original post by Maths Tutor

Scotland hates being part of the UK team at the Olympics.

Laughable delusion. Even the SNP know fine well they couldn't get away with that level of bull-****ting!

Reply 1332

LewisG123

It's a good thing, means you'll finally stop living off of the money made in the capital of a foreign country

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 1333

Maths Tutor

Original post by MatureStudent36

I try not to listen to anybody who has an agenda. I like my information from the media and also like to research the raw data myself.

Original post by MatureStudent36

Incidentally. I'm no labour supporter, but Alistair Darling although looking quite odd, did actually strike me as one of Labours better cabinet postings. After all, he did do a decent job as Chancellor.

Who did you listen to, Which media did you read and which research did you carry out to reach that conclusion?

Surely you should present them to the whole nation so that it can show its gratitude to Alistair Darling for doing "a decent job as Chancellor".

Reply 1334

Maths Tutor

Original post by LewisG123

It's a good thing, means you'll finally stop living off of the money made in the capital of a foreign country

That foreign country has a TRILLION POUNDS PLUS national DEBT. It can't even make enough money for itself to live on.

Reply 1335

Maths Tutor

Original post by MatureStudent36

I went over this a few weeks back as there was quite a lot in the media. It would appear that our friends at newsnetscotland have been furiously replacing keywords on their website for search engine optimisation to make their website come up all over the first page denouncing the claim as untrue.

However.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglophobia
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1786002
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/227562-racism-on-the-increase-in-scotland/

However this ones the best as it summarises everything.

http://www.cjscotland.co.uk/2012/12/racist-incidents-recorded-by-the-police-in-scotland-statistics-200910-published/

So yes. It is on the rise.

Now the question is whether or not it's unemployed Neds letting off frustration as they can't get a job, or that it's a simple case of that sh1t like this goes hand in hand with nationalism is a different question. After all, being told that you're being hard done by the Westminster ( read the English) isn't going to be helpful.

I have however noticed a gradual increase over the years. But I can't tell if its rife or still at acceptable numbers. As I say though. I don't mind a bit of banter but kicking seven shades of sh1te out of somebody isn't banter.

Here is the link to the newsnetscotland article you were TERRIFIED of posting:

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/6445-media-anti-english-racism-claims-wrong-and-irresponsible-says-scottish-government

FACTS from the "raw data" from the POLICE:

- racist incidents against white ENGLISH victims FELL by 17% in 2011-12;

- racist incidents against white SCOTTISH victims ROSE by 25% in 2011-12.

So contrary to the numerous comments by yourself and Midlander regarding increasing "anglophobia" fermented by the SNP, a better conclusion would be increasing anti-Scottish sentiment fermented by the anti-Independence Axis.

Reply 1336

Maths Tutor

Original post by MatureStudent36

Holy sh1t. he's using the word axis. It's as if they're an axis of evil even though they represent the majority viewpoint of the population.

The ONLY agenda of the anti-Independence Axis of the 'Bitter Together' campaign of Labour-Tory-LibDem politicians every time they open their mouths is to present Scotland to the world as 'TOO SMALL, TOO POOR AND TOO STUPID' to run its own affairs.

Anyone who wants to verify this should listen to the FULL UNEDITED recording of First Ministers Questions every week:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/newsandmediacentre/32362.aspx

Reply 1337

Maths Tutor

Original post by Midlander

Why has the SNP not touched all the money given to it by Westminster for Scottish regeneration projects?

Original post by Midlander

I still haven't had any answer from Scots as to why the SNP has held onto most of the money given to it by Westminster specifically for Scottish regeneration projects.

Original post by Midlander

Perhaps Maths Tutor can explain the SNP not spending money specifically given to it by Westminster for Scottish regeneration.

Original post by Midlander

Still haven't answered my other question by the way-do I need to repost it a 5th time?

Original post by Midlander

What of all the money given to Scotland by Westminster for regeneration projects, which it has spent virtually nothing of?

Original post by Midlander

Care to answer my question now or ignore it for the umpteenth time?

Original post by Midlander

Stop avoiding the question I have been asking on here for over a week.

Original post by MatureStudent36

http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/05/scotland-330-million-roads-schools

it'll be that one.

Guardian article dated Wednesday 5 December 2012 (linked to by MatureStudent36):

"Scotland's allocation under the so-called Barnett formula will receive an increase of £331m over two years"

WILL RECEIVE OVER TWO YEARS.

So what was your point? Blaming the SNP government for not spending funds it has not even received?

I know you will change the subject now.

Reply 1338

Maths Tutor

Original post by Midlander

What is your obsession with upper CASE?

For example, I have to put comments like "WILL RECEIVE OVER TWO YEARS" in upper CASE to make you (hopefully) fully understand that you cannot blame the SNP government for not spending money it has not even received.

Reply 1339

Maths Tutor

Original post by Midlander

Anglophobia is less prevalent in areas where English people are more integrated and Scots realise we are more alike than they thought.

On a related note, how long do you think it will be before East Europeans in England are more integrated and the English realise they are more alike than they thought?